2am Lockouts

Post by **lynt** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:11 pm

The State Government will order more than 500 late-night licence holders to impose the curfew in a three-month trial to stop pub crawls that lead to violence, News Ltd reported today.

The main targets are the city nightclub precincts but will cover four local government areas of Melbourne, Yarra, Stonnington and Port Phillip councils.

Publicans who fail to enforce the policy will be hit with fines of up to $6800.

News Ltd reports said smokers who left drinking establishments after 2am to light up on the streets would be banned from returning.

Good for the start time argument. No choice now. Hrmmmm.

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:16 pm

this is a shithouse idea....

anyone been to brisbane in the last few years? it's crap, streets even more full of drunken wankers who can't get cabs, or back into a venue.

isn't this the obvious outcome???? I don't get the rationale

Post by **lynt** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:17 pm

Rationale is all night booze hags looking to punch on spoiling it for us raver types.

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:25 pm

isn't a lockout gunna make the streets worse though?

Stray · Post by **Stray** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:31 pm

Can we close this thread.. we don't need two of these. plsthnxbye

Post by **lynt** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:32 pm

This has more posts.

DBoy · Post by **DBoy** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:36 pm

Massive.

In Brisbane is caused more fights, especially between bouncers and patrons.

THere is only one thing to do in this situation. They are putting a 3 months trial in place, the public has to ensure that that 3 months is total hell after the lock out so that they realise it was better before.

Smokers not allowed back in as well!

Turning point in a police society here, does not suit Melbourne at all.

Lizkins · Post by **Lizkins** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:38 pm

re posting comment

just read this this morning, so annoyed! I hardly go out anymore and now this! places with beer gardens are now the go even moreso

its like being at school. some idiots do something wrong and ruin it for everyone else. boooo to them

mrj · Post by **mrj** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:43 pm

i agree something needs to be done about drunken violence, but this seems like a bit of a half baked solution

as with any half baked public policy there is bound to be unforseen outcomes

for example, the introduction of the seatbelt law had a direct correlation with an increase in pedestrian deaths! people feel safer = more reckless driving = more pedestrians get hit. holy crap I just used something I learnt in first year economics. LOL. Some possible outcomes of the 2 am lock out.......

Simply decentralises the problem

people forgo the city and instead go the pub and then piss on back at their house. This way the violence is simply shifted to the streets of the suburbs. Probably the what the government is aiming for, the realise they can't fix it, but a decentralised problem is harder to spot!

Problem moves

Everyone moves enne masse from the city to some suburb that hasn't been targeted. Dunno, maybe moonee ponds or something. Cmon guys, were going out, lets get the next train to the pond! lol.

Increased binge drinking behaviour

"Shit, this place closes in an hour, cmon boys drink up, if we are gonna get pissed we better do it quickly". I used to go to the London in Richmond and they had an early close time. Used to get more smashed there than any other venue, because of the need to finish drinks quickly.

Lock ins!

Could be fun actually, had a few in my time. But yeah the pubs might flout the law and instead lock the doors and everyone drinks till they fall over.

a1studmuffin · Post by **a1studmuffin** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:44 pm

Bastard, you locked my thread even though mine was first.

My reply to the other thread...

Yeah, on second thought it would be a real a shame if this did go into place permanently, because I always felt that was one of the really nice things about Melbourne compared to other cities - the fact you CAN go out to a bar or club any time on the weekend if you desire. Just because a few bridge and tunnel cunts abuse it, why should I suffer?

As Direktor says, if you stopped serving intoxicated people this wouldn't be an issue. These "pub crawls" that they talk about - I assume these are bogan groups of guys moving between old man pubs/Irish pubs around the city? I suspect those looking to go to some of the more hidden bars in Melbourne wouldn't engage in this kind of behaviour. I reckon they should just clamp down on suspect pubs which support this kind of behaviour.

Brisbane is definitely one of the more fucked up places to go out from my experiences - 2am lockouts and limited alcohol licenses (I remember Family closing at 5am, but I think they stopped serving alcohol well before that) meant once you did leave a club/bar and tried to get home or go to a friend's house, you had to run a gauntlet of drunken morons who decided to hang around on the street rather than go home. The mess left over at the end of a night (both rubbish and human) in the valley was absolutely disgusting.

almax · Post by **almax** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:45 pm

I dont know which one to post in, but ill go for Lynts thread cause...well i dunno, just because.

But what about people who work till 2am then want to go out for drinks, will they need to have some form of ID showing they work for a venue so they can access another club/bar

suxorz

almax · Post by **almax** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:50 pm

DBoy wrote:
THere is only one thing to do in this situation. They are putting a 3 months trial in place, the public has to ensure that that 3 months is total hell after the lock out so that they realise it was better before.
.

Someone start a facebook thread "Call to Arms, Cause Chaos for next 3 months"

a1studmuffin · Post by **a1studmuffin** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:54 pm

Thought this was interesting...

http://www.police.vic.gov.au/statistics ... L-PSA.html (sorry for messed up link, PHPBB is poo)

There's definitely been a rise in crime over the last year - reports of crimes against the person (proportionate to population increase) have increased 15%. That's a HUGE increase, what the hell's going on?

almax · Post by **almax** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:59 pm

a1studmuffin wrote:Thought this was interesting...

http://www.police.vic.gov.au/statistics ... L-PSA.html (sorry for messed up link, PHPBB is poo)

There's definitely been a rise in crime over the last 2 years - reports of crimes against the person (proportionate to population increase) have increased 15-20% in both 2006 AND 2007. That's a HUGE increase, what the hell's going on?

My theory,
Prior to E's and party drugs becoming "mainstream" and widely accepted people would go and get pissed, be home by midnight on most occassions. Then people started taking drugs, stayed out longer, drank more because they could and became accustomed to this.
Now drugs are perhaps not as popular again, ive noticed more and more people looking down upon drugs again so people are just going out and drinking drinking drinking but still staying out longer.

mrj · Post by **mrj** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:03 pm

maybe people are getting better at reporting crime?

"You have selected "regicide"! If you know the name of the King or Queen you have murdered, press one!"

almax · Post by **almax** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:08 pm

diode · Post by **diode** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:08 pm

The problem is that society is geting angrier and scared. I partly blame George Bush for all of the terrorism bullcrap that has everyone scared and paranoid. The Alcohol I don't think is the root of the problem but being pissed tends to bring out the pent up anger and frustration in a lot of people.
Face it this is not going to get any better as food prices rise, Mortgages increase and people get more pissed off with life in general.

almax · Post by **almax** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:12 pm

diode wrote:The problem is that society is geting angrier and scared. I partly blame George Bush for all of the terrorism bullcrap that has everyone scared and paranoid. The Alcohol I don't think is the root of the problem but being pissed tends to bring out the pent up anger and frustration in a lot of people.
Face it this is not going to get any better as food prices rise, Mortgages increase and people get more pissed off with life in general.

You mean like more segregated, ie "lets go bash those lebo terrorists driving up Chapel st" kinda mentality and vice versa? yeah perhaps. Some friends of mine got bashed walking up Greville st, they are odd looking, have tatts all over them and look emo/punker/rocker and were bashed by a bunch of meatheads. Another friend of mine got glassed at a bar he works in recently too.

mrj · Post by **mrj** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:15 pm

Mike Skinner wrote: Geezers need excitement. If their lives don't provide them this they incite violence. Common sense. Simple common sense

diode · Post by **diode** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:16 pm

Nope, Didn't mean anything like that at all...Just a general comment on why I think people are getting angrier and why there is now way more violence in society.
Wasn't that long ago that a punchup was over as soon as the person was knocked down...These days it's not uncommon for someone to keep kicking someone in the head until they die.

Very sad.

Charlie73 · Post by **Charlie73** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:18 pm

deviant wrote:isn't a lockout gunna make the streets worse though?

It sure will just like the UK, i mean this idea has not worked anywhere they have tried it......

SO what is the ruling for the surrounding burbs like Fitzroy etc that are part of the councils mentioned? Do they have to comply even tho there is no trouble?

mrj · Post by **mrj** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:18 pm

i blame underbelly

no wait. russell crowe. yeah i blame him. kicking people in romper stomper and thrown phones at yank bell boys. the kids were bound to start imitating at some point.

mrj · Post by **mrj** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:21 pm

Charlie73 wrote:
deviant wrote:isn't a lockout gunna make the streets worse though?
It sure will just like the UK, i mean this idea has not worked anywhere they have tried it......

SO what is the ruling for the surrounding burbs like Fitzroy etc that are part of the councils mentioned? Do they have to comply even tho there is no trouble?

true

altho brunny st is getting worse, most are still well behaved.

i live in Collingwood, and despite the fact there is a SHITLOAD of crime, particuarly drugs, you don't see much violence. You definitley feel scared and threatened some times, the place feels rough, but I actually see bugger all violence.

DBoy · Post by **DBoy** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:24 pm

They talk about cities reaching "critical points". (who is they hell is this they I just used as my authority for this post?")

Melbourne may well be finding itself at a critical point of size vs. culture.
The number of police per capita in the city at night is apparently very low, maybe it is just people are realising what they can get away with, they don't feel like there is any control, and we all know what happens when people 'feel' like they can get away with things. (New Orleans).

Curfue is not the solution, simple as that. Maybe less 1000+ venues, keeping people in lots of smaller venues might create less of a mob mentality.

DBoy · Post by **DBoy** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:25 pm

mrj wrote:
Charlie73 wrote:
deviant wrote:isn't a lockout gunna make the streets worse though?
It sure will just like the UK, i mean this idea has not worked anywhere they have tried it......

SO what is the ruling for the surrounding burbs like Fitzroy etc that are part of the councils mentioned? Do they have to comply even tho there is no trouble?
true

altho brunny st is getting worse, most are still well behaved.

i live in Collingwood, and despite the fact there is a SHITLOAD of crime, particuarly drugs, you don't see much violence. You definitley feel scared and threatened some times, the place feels rough, but I actually see bugger all violence.

I believe for licening purposes brunswick st falls under Melbourne, not 100% sure.

Smile on Impact · Post by **Smile on Impact** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:35 pm

I came to Melbourne for the night life.

this is sux !

I'm moving to europe or somthing.

if you are gonna put up with crap weather, you may as well have crap weather and a good night life.

get fcked melbourne !

a1studmuffin · Post by **a1studmuffin** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:38 pm

How about CCTV as a solution? Has it helped in London? Anyone got stats? Obviously planned crime wouldn't be affected, but random "crimes of drunken passion" would surely be second thought if the likelihood of getting caught was much higher. It'd boost hoodie sales at the bare minimum.

mrj · Post by **mrj** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:39 pm

DBoy wrote:They talk about cities reaching "critical points". (who is they hell is this they I just used as my authority for this post?")

Melbourne may well be finding itself at a critical point of size vs. culture.
The number of police per capita in the city at night is apparently very low, maybe it is just people are realising what they can get away with, they don't feel like there is any control, and we all know what happens when people 'feel' like they can get away with things. (New Orleans).

Curfue is not the solution, simple as that. Maybe less 1000+ venues, keeping people in lots of smaller venues might create less of a mob mentality.

word. melbourne is growing rapidly in terms of population with no real increase in infrastructure. no more police really, no more public transport. the gov really has dropped the ball there. thats what happens with state labour govs though. don't get me wrong, I'd rather live under a state labour than liberal, but you gotta admit the libs are much better at expansion and progress. Kennet was anyways.

Smile on Impact · Post by **Smile on Impact** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:49 pm

mrj wrote:
DBoy wrote:.....but you gotta admit the libs are much better at expansion and progress. Kennet was anyways.

A liberal govs answer to lack of police, would be to hire private security agencies.

old liberal saying:
"if it's public, rape it"

obliveus · Post by **obliveus** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:49 pm

@ the post on George Dubya.

I know he's a dickhead, but placing blame for the current state of things on his shoulders gives him way too much credit. The man cant even spell "puppet".

2am lock-in's seem lame to me, but I can see where they're coming from. I've seen some pretty ugly beefcake fights in the CBD and Brunswick St late at night, i.e. dudes going down hard with their heads on the pavement, dudes kicking down dudes and cops coming in swinging. It's pretty fricken disgusting to tell you the truth.

From my point of view (DJ, not punter): I drink but a little, dont do drugs and dont smoke, but I exploit a system where punters that do pay my wages. To tell you the truth, this will just lead to more packed clubs and dancefloors for me. As a DJ who prefers to play earlier rather than later, this will make my nightlife better. So I guess I actually like this idea, but I dont know much about the specifics. YAY!!!

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:53 pm

How about just adhering to your liqour license and not serving obviously intoxicated patrons?

obliveus · Post by **obliveus** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:54 pm

Direktor wrote:How about just adhering to your liqour license and not serving obviously intoxicated patrons?

But who will dance to my George Michael records then?

Smile on Impact · Post by **Smile on Impact** » Fri May 02, 2008 2:01 pm

OMG ..... Revolver !!

Post by **lynt** » Fri May 02, 2008 2:03 pm

Smile on Impact wrote:OMG ..... Revolver !!

It's been lock down since 2am for years.

Post by **breaksRbest** » Fri May 02, 2008 2:06 pm

there has always been an element of society that actually thinks it's fun to go out & start a fight. they haven't had a good night unless they've beaten someone up.

attitudes need changing, not laws

Smile on Impact · Post by **Smile on Impact** » Fri May 02, 2008 2:06 pm

lynt wrote:
Smile on Impact wrote:OMG ..... Revolver !!
It's been lock down since 2am for years.

Weird !

I've never been to revolver before 2am

universal sea · Post by **universal sea** » Fri May 02, 2008 2:13 pm

I think people are getting more chill... but thats cause Im getting more chill, and only hanging around chill people.

Today I read about a Chapel St shooting the other day. I didn't hear anything. Whenever I read Melbourne news I come across shit like that, and without reading it, the place seems peaceful enough, the yobbos in my hood leave me alone, and I stay away from congregations of idiocy like Barkly St in St Kilda on weekends.

How about just adhering to your liqour license and not serving obviously intoxicated patrons?

bang on. Venues better find other ways of making money because theyre the ones promoting public social drunken culture at all costs...

however, these same drunken patrons can now hit the 24 hour bottler for cheaper alcohol and can wander the streets more ticked off that nobody will let them in.

I think australians should be very, very, very, very concerned that the next step up in this will be knives and guns at venues. In Toronto, many north american cities, you are patted down, sometimes metal detectors, when you enter clubs & bars. There are certainly enough idiots in melbourne, and when idiots make other people start having to think about defending themselves, this brings more weaponry, and more chance of sillyness.

not sure how terrorism and george w. has anything to do with melbourne 2am lock outs. A police state/society? Maybe it's needed as a phase for the common sense of humanity to figure out unanimously within ourselves that antisocial attitudes need to change across the board.

nhd · Post by **nhd** » Fri May 02, 2008 2:15 pm

bRb is on point!

and Revolver, well, becomes apparent when on a sunday afternoon hanging outside your fav sneaker store on Greville st with mates and two "revved" up men want to start a fight with you.
Do security just push them out the door? (this isnt a one time thing either, i advise my folks to walk on the other side of the road)

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Fri May 02, 2008 2:22 pm

universal sea wrote:
How about just adhering to your liqour license and not serving obviously intoxicated patrons?
bang on. Venues better find other ways of making money because theyre the ones promoting public social drunken culture at all costs...

its easy to say that, but representing a venue now I see the other side to it, and its not as easy as you think direkt.

and anyone who has run a club for an extended length of time will agree with me.

better ways of maknig money > lets see
increased door prices
increased drink prices
less infastructure ??

all end up hurting the punter in the end.

this is a bandaid effort by the govt. and ill be very interested to see what happens after the three month trial.

a1studmuffin · Post by **a1studmuffin** » Fri May 02, 2008 2:38 pm

universal sea wrote:I think australians should be very, very, very, very concerned that the next step up in this will be knives and guns at venues. In Toronto, many north american cities, you are patted down, sometimes metal detectors, when you enter clubs & bars. There are certainly enough idiots in melbourne, and when idiots make other people start having to think about defending themselves, this brings more weaponry, and more chance of sillyness.

Yeah this is a really good point. I've always felt relatively safe in most clubs/bars I frequent - it was one of the nicer points of Melbourne that you didn't need to be patted down when entering a club. But as the place gets bigger and we're not catching up with infrastructure, I wouldn't have a problem with manditory patdowns by security on the way into a club. Yeah, it can make you go

and feel like a criminal when you're not used to it, but it's only making you safer while you're in there.

On a similar note, I still find it surprising that someone hasn't invented and marketed a hard plastic pot/pint "glass" which looks + feels the same as real glass but won't smash, preventing unnecessary glassings during fights in clubs. I've only ever seen cheap substitutes which you could really only get away with at festivals.

DBoy · Post by **DBoy** » Fri May 02, 2008 2:41 pm

You will not be able to enter a club after 2am.
Simple.

Even if you need to go up the shop to get some cash, or some smokes after the main act finishes and you want to go back.

You will not be able to go back.

You can not walk your friend who is a girl to a cab then go back into the club.

It will suck!

C.I.A. · Post by **C.I.A.** » Fri May 02, 2008 2:45 pm

mrj wrote:i blame underbelly

no wait. russell crowe. yeah i blame him. kicking people in romper stomper and thrown phones at yank bell boys. the kids were bound to start imitating at some point.

I blame them immigrant types stealing jobs from our neighbours and their overweight kids.

LÃ³s Kasinoâ€” · Fri May 02, 2008 2:47 pm

I don't see how this is going to solve anything.....

people are still going to be leaving the clubs..... drunk !!!!

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Fri May 02, 2008 2:49 pm

C.I.A. wrote:
mrj wrote:i blame underbelly

no wait. russell crowe. yeah i blame him. kicking people in romper stomper and thrown phones at yank bell boys. the kids were bound to start imitating at some point.
I blame them immigrant types stealing jobs from our neighbours and their overweight kids.

naw, its all the bogans from adelaide who come here looking for 'culcha'

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Fri May 02, 2008 2:49 pm

It's meant to stop drunk people "crawling" between venues, encountering other groups of drunk people doing the same thing - and consequently fighting.

autumnleaves · Post by **autumnleaves** » Fri May 02, 2008 3:15 pm

Holdon.. I don't go to revolver cause it's on other side of city for me, but most people I know who go there go there after a dance party has finished. This would be way after 2am. Am I missing something? How has it been in lockdown for years?

mrj · Post by **mrj** » Fri May 02, 2008 3:16 pm

I can see downsides to all this.

however, I am with Ob1 on this. I'm kinda chuffed on this. Finishes at 2am means maybe we will get reasonable start times.

I think that nightclubs are unfairly targeted in all this. I go to plenty of nightclubs are rarely see fights there. Mind you there are plenty of nightclubs in melbourne I don't go to, and I can imagine theres heaps of fights on those. hmmmm. They probably fighting because they are so dissapointed I didn't turn up there. lol.

All the fights I see are at pubs or between pubs.

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Fri May 02, 2008 3:21 pm

^^ Yeah, but people don't just stay inside clubs all safe and sound.... in brisbane, after the curfew (I think it's 3am there) everyone is out in the street, the atmosphere in the clubs dies as people leave and can't get back in (so there friends inside leave too).... then the street is literally FULL of drunken wankers... You can hardly walk down the main street, people are spilling onto the road in the way of cars, there are not enough taxis to cope with the massive influx at the one time..... people are arguing with security and each other..... ugly ugly scene

it is a shit idea

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Fri May 02, 2008 3:23 pm

autumnleaves wrote:Holdon.. I don't go to revolver cause it's on other side of city for me, but most people I know who go there go there after a dance party has finished. This would be way after 2am. Am I missing something? How has it been in lockdown for years?

they are probably on a guest list.... that's the exception

DBoy · Post by **DBoy** » Fri May 02, 2008 3:24 pm

autumnleaves wrote:Holdon.. I don't go to revolver cause it's on other side of city for me, but most people I know who go there go there after a dance party has finished. This would be way after 2am. Am I missing something? How has it been in lockdown for years?

misunderstanding. THere is no pass outs at Revolver after 2am.

This thing takes it to a new level though, no going into any club in any way if it is after 2. I can't even fathom it.

Think of somewhere like Mis Libs. Once 2 passes you will not even be meant to step out onto the street to have a smoke if the balcony is packed and step back in.