Street Violence in Melbs/Aus

Hatsudai · Post by **Hatsudai** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:35 pm

...is all I seem to be reading about in online news sources these days.

Is it really becoming that bad or is this just all a big media beat up?

Some friends in Melbs say that they just don't go into the CBD at night on weekends as they CBFed with dickheads and there is a feeling of danger/dodginess that surrounds the inner city at night nowadays.

I havent lived in Melbs for 6 years now and of course there has always been a slight element of danger when going out at night in the past.

Question is Melbourne beaters have you noticed it getting worse in the last few years?

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:40 pm

sure, there have been some largish incidents in the last few years... but generally speaking I don't think it's worse. I live in the CBD and work in the CBD and DJ every weekend (again in the CBD)...

basically, what I'm trying to say is that I am THE AUTHORITY on this topic

media beat-up imo

Post by **fooishbar** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:43 pm

from what i've seen, it's just getting more harsh, not necessarily more frequent. what would've just been a few punches thrown back in the day when everything was better and lollies were dirt cheap now turns into 6 dudes stomping on someone's head. fun times.

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:45 pm

fooishbar wrote:from what i've seen, it's just getting more harsh, not necessarily more frequent. what would've just been a few punches thrown back in the day when everything was better and lollies were dirt cheap now turns into 6 dudes stomping on someone's head. fun times.

Nailed it.

FliP · Post by **FliP** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:51 pm

media.. fo sure.

I'm out more than I was when i was younger, and I see less shit goin down.

Fents · Post by **Fents** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:53 pm

was talking bout this on sat night.

i think it is worse. WE (melb beats) just dont see it because imo it does not happen in the same clubs we frequent. didnt say it cant happen but when was the last time you saw someone get beat up at a rave/beats night.

i think its just the mainstream and maybe even hip hop / rnb clubs that does all the damage. i know QBH was massive trouble but who here used to go that weekly thing they had not long back before they got shutdown? it was all house'ish commercial music.

and like foo said now its about weapons and gangs....well not gangs but 6 people on 2...whats with that.

Fents · Post by **Fents** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:53 pm

FliP wrote:media.. fo sure.

I'm out more than I was when i was younger, and I see less shit goin down.

what clubs do you frequent tho?

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:56 pm

+1 foo for president

DBoy · Post by **DBoy** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:01 pm

Media.

I used to work on corner of King and Little Bourke in the 90's when there was the hot dog stand on that corner and Tunnel was still open.

There used to be at least 3 or 4 massive punch ups on that strip every friday and saturday night without fail. And im talking glassings and knives for sure.

I also remember massive rumbles at parties at most parties I went to in the burbs, although i never remember ambulances at those.

I just think the population has grown and we are a big city now, so yep, there is more violence, but not more than in any other city.

Media is just bored.

That said, it has effected me and I take gaurd more readily in the city at night (yer right, like i even go out anymore).

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:04 pm

DBoy wrote:I used to work on corner of King and Little Bourke in the 90's when there was the hot dog stand on that corner and Tunnel was still open.

There used to be at least 3 or 4 massive punch ups on that strip every friday and saturday night without fail. And im talking glassings and knives for sure.

I think though, that was a bad time in terms of crime - there was quite a lot of action on licensees and police presence on king - and since then the area has been toned down a bit for quite some time. So i dont think its the best reference point

did the hot do stand end up meaning all your clients had sausage breath?

FliP · Post by **FliP** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:12 pm

Fents wrote:
FliP wrote:media.. fo sure.

I'm out more than I was when i was younger, and I see less shit goin down.
what clubs do you frequent tho?

The same kinda places everyone on here probably frequents - local pubs, seedy bars and clubs with good music - places with little to no problems.
These are the places I've only really ever been to.

If you go to crap commerical house and rnb clubs or places like QBH or even the smartest idea for a night ever, race nights (serbian nights etc.) or something like that you probably deserve to get beaten up. You know what risks follow it. No-one goes to those places without a slight expectation of something going down..

nothing is actually changing on the streets though.. its not like gangs are circulating around the cbd.

Hatsudai · Post by **Hatsudai** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:13 pm

fooishbar wrote:from what i've seen, it's just getting more harsh, not necessarily more frequent.

kind of what I thought might be the case

DBoy wrote: I just think the population has grown and we are a big city now, so yep, there is more violence, but not more than in any other city.

pretty good point, I guess melbs has grown so quickly in the last couple of years or so that elements that go with big cities (crime etc) are gonna grow too.

DBoy · Post by **DBoy** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:14 pm

FoundationStepper wrote:
DBoy wrote:
did the hot do stand end up meaning all your clients had sausage breath?

hahaha! Don't know, kissing on the mouth was out of bounds.

Fents · Post by **Fents** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:15 pm

FliP wrote:
Fents wrote:
FliP wrote:
nothing is actually changing on the streets though.. its not like gangs are circulating around the cbd.

yep agreed.

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:19 pm

This article says things are more violent, but also says that given the population increase, the odds of a person being assulted are lower (i.e. assults per head of population). But the number of assults has definitely jumped:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 85,00.html

In 1993, the population of Melbourne, including the Southbank and Docklands precincts, was only 1616. By last year, that figure had soared to 30,618. In the same period, the number of assaults, including instances of domestic and family violence, rose from 927 to 1991 -- little more than double. Victoria Police Deputy Commissioner Kieran Walshe said the increase in the assault rate in Melbourne's CBD to some extent reflected the city's booming population, but the potential for a city resident to be attacked, "is far, far less than it was. People have been given the impression it is war out there and it's not," he said.

So spin it how you will. I think its worse - read more intense - and the figures show it. Its also the places it occurs which spook me - outside takeways, and Flinders st. That there is really violent attacks outside of just the nightclub areas really worries me.

I also like the quote on the stat manipulation. "statistically the average person has one breast and one testicle"

Blaxter · Post by **Blaxter** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:37 pm

It's all about the smoking laws.
Whislt population has grwon relative to crime stats, thats only reported incidents.
Since the smoking laws came into effect I've noticed much more revelry on footpaths outside clubs and pubs which isn't helping the situation.

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:47 pm

fooishbar wrote:from what i've seen, it's just getting more harsh, not necessarily more frequent. what would've just been a few punches thrown back in the day when everything was better and lollies were dirt cheap now turns into 6 dudes stomping on someone's head. fun times.

this.
and also the fact that there is a serious problem with consequences, as in, there are none.
Loads of times we called in assaults between punters @ lounge and nothing happens to them. Nothing.
This had bred a feeling that if your crew is big enough, so you can either intimidate or he said she said your way out of it, you can bash someone to death and walk off free.

and fents is spot on too.
i never saw violence much before i ran Lounge, used to avoid king st and still do,
but even just Swanston walk in actually SCARY to me now on friday and saturday nights. and i never felt unsafe anywhere in this city! footscray station included!

There IS gangs guys, there IS racially motivated fights and there IS more tolerance for all of this as well as more population to feed the fires.

That said, my distrust of the media to report ANYTHING accurately remains, which is why there is definately beat up going on. Brumby wants the power to revoke liquor lisences on the spot!
And he needs something to back up this absurd idea...so.....

a1studmuffin · Post by **a1studmuffin** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:14 pm

Don't trust the media - do your own research. The Victoria Police publish up to date statistics on it all, including compensation for population increase:

http://www.police.vic.gov.au/content.as ... ent_ID=782

Of course any statistics can be manipulated, but I'd like to think the definitions the Victoria Police use for their divisions, reported crimes etc. don't change significantly from year-to-year. In short, this is as accurate as you could expect anyone to get with the data. If you're still a skeptic of statistics, come up with a better system before you knock this one and I'll start listening to you.

Violence in the City of Melbourne council area:

Homocide (as rate per 100,000 population) increased 140% from 2007/2008 to 2008/2009 to 16.7.
Rape (as rate per 100,000 population) increased 31.9% from 2007/2008 to 2008/2009 to 114.8.
Sex (non-rape) (as rate per 100,000 population) increased 7.9% from 2007/2008 to 2008/2009 to 212.8.
Robbery (as rate per 100,000 population) decreased 25% from 2007/2008 to 2008/2009 to 392.2.
Assault (as rate per 100,000 population) increased 8.7% from 2007/2008 to 2008/2009 to 2710.6.
Abduction/kidnap (as rate per 100,000 population) decreased 3.9% from 2007/2008 to 2008/2009 to 20.1.

So everything has increased except robbery and abduction/kidnap, with homocide and rape seeing the biggest increase in percentage, and assaults seeing the biggest rise in actual numbers.

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:39 pm

yeah A1 BUT what about

fuk da police!?

youthful_implants · Post by **youthful_implants** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:58 pm

I think the media love a shitstorm.

I dont think Melbourne is nearly as violent as London and I always felt safe there. London's also been highlighted by the media for knife crime in the last couple of years

Sure it happens, but its isolated and restricted to idiot kids under 18.

You can't really proscribe for stupidity, you just got to try and avoid it.

youthful_implants · Post by **youthful_implants** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:02 pm

Of course it could be just a thinly veiled media manipulation to enforce more curfews in the CBD.

konk · Post by **konk** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:54 pm

youthful_implants wrote:Of course it could be just a thinly veiled media manipulation to enforce more curfews in the CBD.

IMO they are pushing to make the public think they "need" cctv to reduce crime.
Just wait for it. Its coming!

Another point i'd like to make is: They've increased city patrols by police. This also increases the crime rate.

This all fits in with the agenda to have a tightly controlled and monitored police state.

Hello 1984!

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:56 pm

konk wrote:Another point i'd like to make is: They've increased city patrols by police. This also increases the crime rate.

In the same way that the number of pirates is inversely proportional to global warming temperatures

Lizkins · Post by **Lizkins** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:16 pm

agree that its getting worse, and have been checking the VicPol stats as well. never really been scared going into the city at night until now. Just avoid it whenever i can.

agree with GK on the race related violence. was reading an article about why its occurring, the subtext behind the reason for the attacks and why different races behave the way they do etc, it mostly centered around Asian gang violence and anglos attacking Indian students etc. can't remember where i read that article though, was a few weeks back now.

the whole thing is not good and i fear for the generations coming through. i feel old saying this, but its not like what it used to be

Amick · Post by **Amick** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:27 pm

Radio plays what they want you to hear.

Newspapers will tell you what they want you to think.

Lizkins · Post by **Lizkins** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:28 pm

ya just got to decipher the bullshit really

media studies was a good class to do in highschool. we even timed how long a newsreader actually read the news and how much they got paid to do it. mind blowing

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:53 pm

konk wrote:
youthful_implants wrote:
Another point i'd like to make is: They've increased city patrols by police. This also increases the crime rate.

Explain how

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:55 pm

correlation = causality

duh

youthful_implants · Post by **youthful_implants** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:56 pm

konk wrote:
youthful_implants wrote:Of course it could be just a thinly veiled media manipulation to enforce more curfews in the CBD.
IMO they are pushing to make the public think they "need" cctv to reduce crime.
Just wait for it. Its coming!

Another point i'd like to make is: They've increased city patrols by police. This also increases the crime rate.

This all fits in with the agenda to have a tightly controlled and monitored police state.

Hello 1984!

Its interesting because CCTV is effective in lots of ways in actually catching criminals, problem is it doesn't deter them

I have no problem with CCTV whatsoever, because I'm not doing anything that I need to worry about. It works well in London, if you're seen in Central London on CCTV to be comitting a crime the police rock up in unmarked cars in minutes.

I was caught fly-postering on Brick Lane in this way.

More visbile policing does deter people from bashing each other for sure (I dont believe it increases the crime rate at all), but I think personally that zero tolerance of violent crime and longer sentences is the only way to make people think harder about what they're doing. Make examples of a few, to scare the rest of the zoo.

Blaxter · Post by **Blaxter** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:12 pm

These stats are based on reported crimes. Pretty hard to guage if this is more than a media beat up using unreliable statistics.
Not all crimes are reported.
I'm not any more scared of going to the city now, than I was 8 years ago before I was mugged. In my experience based on the stats I've been keeping, crime against me has decreased.

Hatsudai · Post by **Hatsudai** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:30 pm

churs for the comments, pretty interesting discussion.

Calvs · Post by **Calvs** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:45 am

media beat up.. but just like any stereotype, there is a slight amount of truth behind it.

It is true that this kinda stuff is more restricted to housey kinda clubs.. dudes there arent there for the music. they have nothing in common with each other. they're generally more concerned but wat they look like and just out to hook a bird.. this burns testosterone which more often than not'll end up in a punch on.

In ur more underground clubs tho, peeps got stuff in common, and instead of fighting they can actually talk to each other, relate to one another and actually get along.. this and egos are generally lower.. plus wen everyones minged out its all love a dove

ITS ALL JOHN BRUMBY AND THE BABY BOOMERS...

theyve had their fun, and now its bed time. Pisses me off that theyre the ones who bitch and whinge bout society not being tough like it used to be, yet they're the ones imposing the laws and rules that govern the shit out of us..

that said the 2am lockout was a complete farce and im glad it got accepted as that

konk · Post by **konk** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:14 am

Hardy wrote:
konk wrote:
youthful_implants wrote:
Another point i'd like to make is: They've increased city patrols by police. This also increases the crime rate.

Explain how

Well there are more police catching people "offending", this will increase the crime rate of convicted offences.

Im sure reported cases over the phone and the likes is a dif story. But like a few have said before this.. Statistics can be bent any way chosen by media and the powers above.

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:25 am

konk wrote:
Hardy wrote: Explain how
Well there are more police catching people "offending", this will increase the crime rate of convicted offences.

Im sure reported cases over the phone and the likes is a dif story. But like a few have said before this.. Statistics can be bent any way chosen by media and the powers above.

Ah yes, I totally read the initial comment the wrong way. Cheers!

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:58 am

word to kitty and youthful regarding punishments......

I am 100% against violence, I HATE being threatened or manhandled, goes against everything I hold as important. Pisses me off that people can pick on you, hit you and even bash you senseless to NO CONSEQUENCES WHATSOEVER... I've seen this happen time and time again....

case 1..

my best mate and flattie in 1998 got king hit at a club, had his nose broken, was dragged outside and recieved a good kicking, all for dancing with the wrong girl at the club... He pressed charges, seriously took over a year for the cops to catch and charge the dude.... by that stage, my mate had moved to Perth and was unlikely to come back to Tassie to go to court.

case 2..

my brother got bashed pretty bad outside a club in 2001 (again in tassie), my father assisted him in tracking down the case and prosecuting the offender...

the cops were lenient on the guy because being found guilty would harm his career as a CHILD CARE WORKER...

case 3..

mate of mine got stabbed at Flinders St station at the ripe early time of 7pm... he reported the incident... never followed it up.. never heard anything back..

I have more stories... but you get the picture

filth, these violent people need to be brought to task for their actions..... being hit, bashed or otherwise assaulted is fucking horrible and it's simply not fair or justified that it should go unpunished.

/rant

Lizkins · Post by **Lizkins** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:03 pm

Blaxter wrote:It's all about the smoking laws.
Whislt population has grwon relative to crime stats, thats only reported incidents.
Since the smoking laws came into effect I've noticed much more revelry on footpaths outside clubs and pubs which isn't helping the situation.

when i was o/s i met this guy in the backpacker who was from Ireland, and he said the increase in violence and one night stands were the cause of moving smoking outside. he said the violence over there had gotten so bad that if you spilt your drink on a guys' shoe it was game on, knives an all. glassings were a nightly occurrence

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:15 pm

Lizkins wrote: when i was o/s i met this guy in the backpacker who was from Ireland, and he said the increase in violence and one night stands were the cause of moving smoking outside.

well if people are scoring out of it, it kinda balances out, yeah?

Blaxter · Post by **Blaxter** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:59 pm

BTW - Fuck you Dan and your childish comments.

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:01 pm

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:10 pm

deviant wrote:wtf?

!!!

Where did that one come from J?

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:13 pm

totally!

?

Lizkins · Post by **Lizkins** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:45 pm

Hardy wrote:
Lizkins wrote: when i was o/s i met this guy in the backpacker who was from Ireland, and he said the increase in violence and one night stands were the cause of moving smoking outside.
well if people are scoring out of it, it kinda balances out, yeah?

only if you get a glassing and a shag in the same night lol

mrj · Post by **mrj** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:33 pm

?? they moved smoking outside because to stop people getting laid or getting into fights? what could the possible link between indoor smoking and getting laid be? More imporantantly if such a link exists how do we succesfully lobby the Australian government to allow smoking in clubs again?

Blaxter · Post by **Blaxter** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:05 pm

Hardy wrote:
deviant wrote:wtf?
!!!

Where did that one come from J?

Ooops. Forgot the

Looks like I've got my Factoty Worker hat on. I'll take it off and put the Blaxter cap back on.
Apologies to all I've offended.

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:29 pm

The other thing that can alert people to your joking nature and to help avoid offence (appart from teef), is that the comments should actually be funny.

youthful_implants · Post by **youthful_implants** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:50 pm

Lizkins wrote:
Hardy wrote:
Lizkins wrote: when i was o/s i met this guy in the backpacker who was from Ireland, and he said the increase in violence and one night stands were the cause of moving smoking outside.
well if people are scoring out of it, it kinda balances out, yeah?

only if you get a glassing and a shag in the same night lol

sexy time!

all the blood and.....nevermind.

mixtress · Post by **mixtress** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:15 pm

Ooooh, that's fucked up

. You should get together with Amick's physio

youthful_implants · Post by **youthful_implants** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:35 pm

mixtress wrote:Ooooh, that's fucked up . You should get together with Amick's physio

only if you'll hold my broken hand.

shepherd · Post by **shepherd** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:17 pm

i think the issue of whether it's getting worse or otherwise is irrelevant ... what's happening is ridiculous.

no one should feel unsafe in their own city after dark and no one should be dead after a night out.

i don't see much being done to address the larger issue and contributing factors. the media are all over it - it's not a beat up though ... they are simply running editorial which taps into what their readers are concerned about.

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:36 pm

shepherd wrote:i don't see much being done to address the larger issue and contributing factors. the media are all over it - it's not a beat up though ... they are simply running editorial which taps into what their readers are concerned about.

this.

Street violence- getting worse?