Soundproofing?

J0rdz · Post by **J0rdz** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:50 am

So iv just moved into a new apartment. Have setup a spare room for my DJ and music stuff and need some advice on soundproofing the room.
The apartment has really thin walls, and the spare room is right next to our stair well so the neighbors hear everything. The room has a floor-to-ceiling window with one wind-out panel, which opens up into the front walkway.
All i can think of is getting some curtains for the window - currently only has venetian blinds. And maybe a door snake to chock the bottom of the door.

Hoping you guys could offer some tips/advice on soundproofing the room a little better?
I was thinking of maybe getting some small strips of foam to put around the window and door frame to stop noise getting out, but wasnt sure if that would help?

almax · Post by **almax** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:18 pm

mattresses against the wall, can also then easily be transformed into crack den by putting matresses on floor.

mrj · Post by **mrj** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:21 pm

additionally, mattresses can soak up a fair bit of moisture and thus can double as a urinal.

almax · Post by **almax** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:37 pm

Thats a very valid point you have there J!

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:55 pm

Egg cartons. Fucking heaps of them.

Lizkins · Post by **Lizkins** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:24 pm

yeah i was gonna say egg cartons as well. they sound proof good they do

Post by **JAMESSSS** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:28 pm

Do egg cartons really work or is that heresay?

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:34 pm

They don't really work. From what I'm told they'd work about as well as adding a thin layer of cardboard to your walls.... I.e. fuck all.

Mattresses, as mentioned... heavy blankets, or professional sound proofing.

Lizkins · Post by **Lizkins** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:37 pm

man, i have been lied to all these years about egg cartons

this is a sad sad day

DBoy · Post by **DBoy** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:46 pm

we were going to have a room soundproofed at one of our sites - it ended up at about $500psm = SHITLOADS.

The main problem is not the sound itself but vibrations. stopping the vibrations passing along structures is incredibly difficult because you need to block all possible entry points. Even if you stop the vibrations passing into the wall via a matress they will still travel along the floor - or roof. It is a prick basically - even cutting out top level sound is hard, but stopping bass is just a prick if you have thin walls to begin with.

Not much help am I.

Good luck.

J0rdz · Post by **J0rdz** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:24 pm

Cheers for the serious answers guys. It helps

Looks like im pretty much doomed to keeping the level down - think ill need to brush up on the councils sound restrictions.

Amick · Post by **Amick** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:30 pm

Headphones?

J0rdz · Post by **J0rdz** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:02 pm

As a very last alternative. I hate having to mix completely through headphones - plus, you cant really do it when you have guests round for a jam.

mrj · Post by **mrj** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:42 pm

Multiple headphones? Perhaps a cone of silence type of arrangement?

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:20 pm

Lizkins wrote:man, i have been lied to all these years about egg cartons this is a sad sad day

I don't believe you've been lied to... you probably just misunderstood the actual use for egg cartons.. they are used to stop excessive reverb (or echo) in a sound booth or studio, not really for sound proofing.

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:39 pm

Eggcartons are supposed to serve a sound absorbtion purpose (i.e. soak up reverberance in the room) but dont do that at all well anyway.

This is different from sound insulation - which is to stop the transferrence of noise from one space to another.

The thing about this is targeting the weak points first, which are initially the gaps in doorframes, window panes etc. but unfortunately when thin walls the whole thing is a weak point. There is sweet FA you can do without spending $$ in these cases.

In any case, the basic soundproofing wont help on the bass front much

The best you can achieve is probably through
- plugging up obvious gaps
- locate speakers closer to your head so they dont need to be as loud for the same effect
- locating the speakers away from party walls
- mounting the speakers properly, like on rubber mats to minimise vibration
- turn down the bass controls
- dont use the subs (if in play) most of the times
- talk to neighbours, like if you want to DJ a lot but can work out with them a level for most of the time mucking around, but agreed general times when you might play a bit louder, with a defined finish time and ability for them to call if a problem. For example you might play louder on Sat afternoons. The sense of control over the start and end time for noise can very much decrease the nuisance it causes, and better to do this stuff from day 1. For many people its not the occasional so much as the endless hours of lower level bass beats that really makes them suffer

For heaps of good soundproofing advice see:
http://sound.sial.rmit.edu.au/ADR/
http://sound.sial.rmit.edu.au/ADR/Download.html
http://sound.sial.rmit.edu.au/ADR/FactS ... ipment.pdf

As for noise restrictions and tips on neighbour issues see:
http://epanote2.epa.vic.gov.au/EPA/Publ ... /406.3.pdf

Post by **JAMESSSS** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:17 pm

How do I go about getting one of these "Party Walls"?

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:30 pm

I think they just happen if you aren't careful on picking your flatmates

Post by **JAMESSSS** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:36 pm

So [email protected] might have been a dope choice afterall?

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:41 pm

Reminds me of a sharehouse ad on a cafe wall in fitzroy years back: "two cruizy kiwi chicks looking for a chilled flatmate, into dub and reggae, cool place upstairs..."

Great, but they forgot to put any contact details. I reckon they would have had a great party wall

Post by **JAMESSSS** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:49 pm

Party wall enthusiasts you reckon?

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:55 pm

fo sure... you learn to pick up these things when you've been in the walls industry for a few years

Lephrenic · Post by **Lephrenic** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:14 pm

FoundationStepper wrote:Reminds me of a sharehouse ad on a cafe wall in fitzroy years back: "two cruizy kiwi chicks looking for a chilled flatmate, into dub and reggae, cool place upstairs..."

Great, but they forgot to put any contact details. I reckon they would have had a great party wall

You sure it wasn't upstairs from the cafe? You could've just knocked.

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:15 pm

yep (the story is paraphrased somewhat)

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:08 am

FoundationStepper wrote:Reminds me of a sharehouse ad on a cafe wall in fitzroy years back: "two cruizy kiwi chicks looking for a chilled flatmate, into dub and reggae, cool place upstairs..."

Great, but they forgot to put any contact details. I reckon they would have had a great party wall

I wonder what the chances were that they smoked weed?

J0rdz · Post by **J0rdz** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:33 am

FoundationStepper wrote:Eggcartons are supposed to serve a sound absorbtion purpose (i.e. soak up reverberance in the room) but dont do that at all well anyway.

This is different from sound insulation - which is to stop the transferrence of noise from one space to another.

The thing about this is targeting the weak points first, which are initially the gaps in doorframes, window panes etc. but unfortunately when thin walls the whole thing is a weak point. There is sweet FA you can do without spending $$ in these cases.

In any case, the basic soundproofing wont help on the bass front much

The best you can achieve is probably through
- plugging up obvious gaps
- locate speakers closer to your head so they dont need to be as loud for the same effect
- locating the speakers away from party walls
- mounting the speakers properly, like on rubber mats to minimise vibration
- turn down the bass controls
- dont use the subs (if in play) most of the times
- talk to neighbours, like if you want to DJ a lot but can work out with them a level for most of the time mucking around, but agreed general times when you might play a bit louder, with a defined finish time and ability for them to call if a problem. For example you might play louder on Sat afternoons. The sense of control over the start and end time for noise can very much decrease the nuisance it causes, and better to do this stuff from day 1. For many people its not the occasional so much as the endless hours of lower level bass beats that really makes them suffer

For heaps of good soundproofing advice see:
http://sound.sial.rmit.edu.au/ADR/
http://sound.sial.rmit.edu.au/ADR/Download.html
http://sound.sial.rmit.edu.au/ADR/FactS ... ipment.pdf

As for noise restrictions and tips on neighbour issues see:
http://epanote2.epa.vic.gov.au/EPA/Publ ... /406.3.pdf

Thanks for the info mate - just the type of info i was looking for

Post by **JAMESSSS** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:05 pm

FoundationStepper wrote:fo sure... you learn to pick up these things when you've been in the walls industry for a few years

Have you thought about setting yourself up as a Party Wall Consultant?

mrj · Post by **mrj** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:19 pm

deviant wrote:
Lizkins wrote:man, i have been lied to all these years about egg cartons this is a sad sad day
I don't believe you've been lied to... you probably just misunderstood the actual use for egg cartons.. they are used to stop excessive reverb (or echo) in a sound booth or studio, not really for sound proofing.

and sometimes for holding eggs during transit/storage

a1studmuffin · Post by **a1studmuffin** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:45 pm

They don't even work for their intended purpose of stopping reverb/echo either, they're too thin. To absorb sound reflections you really need thick stuff like fibreglass or acoustic foam... the amount of absorption is related to the wavelength of the frequency passing through the foam... the thicker the better. Also, leaving a gap between the foam and the wall can increase the absorption properties for bass.

Sociopathic · Post by **Sociopathic** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:59 pm

Def go with the speaking to the neighbours if you're upfront with them about it neighbours are usually pretty ok with stuff like that. Find out what times they work and shit like that and work around them. Either that or just spy on them and find out what theyir habbits are. i know all my neighbours are out during the day time on a week day so can crank anything as loud as I like then and on weekends they don't seem to mind me playing anything as loud as I like until about 8pm (never pushed it past this mind you).

Good heavy proper blackout curtains can make some what of a difference when it comes to the windows, I have really good curtains in my house and notice the difference when I'm out the front between when I have them drawn and when i don't.

Having the bass turned down is gonna be one of the best bets bass being omni-directional means you could face them away from the wall and it'll still reverbarate through them.

I'm pretty sure council can't do much as long as it's daylight hours and you're not impeeding on others "quiet enjoyment" as laid out in their leases which basically comes down to becoming friends with your neighbours.

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:41 pm

if the noise is the daytime is considered unreaonable noise under the enviroment protection act (e.g. because it goes on for ages, or permetes across a neighbours home, or is very loud) or a local law, or a health act nuisance (like causing neighbours ongoing stress, high blood pressure etc, local council can take action. the quiet enjoyment thing on the lease can be bought up as well though.

basically the talk to neighbours thing is essential as sociopathic just said.

Kaiproject · Post by **Kaiproject** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:42 pm

latest computermusic special on Mixing/mastering has a good section on monitor setup/acoustics/soundproofing

J0rdz · Post by **J0rdz** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:04 pm

Thanks for the tips guys.
Will defo be having a chat to the neighbors and investing in some think curtains. Unfortunately the apartment next door to us has just been filled with a couple with a new born. So the situation is looking even worse. They dont seem to mind that their baby keeps us up at all hours of the night, but im sure they'll be the first to complain once i start playing loud music. The joys of confined living!

Amick · Post by **Amick** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:10 pm

J0rdz wrote:They dont seem to mind that their baby keeps us up at all hours of the night, but im sure they'll be the first to complain once i start playing loud music.

The only reason a baby cries is because it needs/wants something, its a survival mechanism. You playing loud music doesn't depend on your survival...pretty selfish comment to make.

Kaiproject · Post by **Kaiproject** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:36 pm

tru amick. mental health survival might though

buy some earplugs. buy them some earplugs. done

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:13 pm

unfortunately ear plugs dont help with low frequency sound

thats the thing about noise, its often not its properties that make it annoying/not annoying, but the context in which its made

J0rdz · Post by **J0rdz** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:49 pm

Amick wrote:
J0rdz wrote:They dont seem to mind that their baby keeps us up at all hours of the night, but im sure they'll be the first to complain once i start playing loud music.
The only reason a baby cries is because it needs/wants something, its a survival mechanism. You playing loud music doesn't depend on your survival...pretty selfish comment to make.

Very true. Im a bit jaded with it all atm, haven't had a proper nights sleep since they moved in 2 weeks ago. It's not just the fact that the baby has been crying at night, more so that the mother insists on walking it up and down the main walkway, which our bedroom window backs onto, whilst it cries, in order to calm it down. Its driving us mental.

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:55 pm

mrj wrote:
deviant wrote:
Lizkins wrote:man, i have been lied to all these years about egg cartons this is a sad sad day
I don't believe you've been lied to... you probably just misunderstood the actual use for egg cartons.. they are used to stop excessive reverb (or echo) in a sound booth or studio, not really for sound proofing.
and sometimes for holding eggs during transit/storage

Amick · Post by **Amick** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:13 pm

J0rdz wrote:
Amick wrote:
J0rdz wrote:They dont seem to mind that their baby keeps us up at all hours of the night, but im sure they'll be the first to complain once i start playing loud music.
The only reason a baby cries is because it needs/wants something, its a survival mechanism. You playing loud music doesn't depend on your survival...pretty selfish comment to make.
Very true. Im a bit jaded with it all atm, haven't had a proper nights sleep since they moved in 2 weeks ago. It's not just the fact that the baby has been crying at night, more so that the mother insists on walking it up and down the main walkway, which our bedroom window backs onto, whilst it cries, in order to calm it down. Its driving us mental.

That sucks. Mate I reckon you should just move again tbh...lol.

J0rdz · Post by **J0rdz** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:25 pm

Amick wrote:
J0rdz wrote:
Amick wrote: The only reason a baby cries is because it needs/wants something, its a survival mechanism. You playing loud music doesn't depend on your survival...pretty selfish comment to make.
Very true. Im a bit jaded with it all atm, haven't had a proper nights sleep since they moved in 2 weeks ago. It's not just the fact that the baby has been crying at night, more so that the mother insists on walking it up and down the main walkway, which our bedroom window backs onto, whilst it cries, in order to calm it down. Its driving us mental.
That sucks. Mate I reckon you should just move again tbh...lol.

If only man! We signed a 12 month lease

Wish there was some way to gauge this shit when you go check out the apartments... haha

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:49 pm

have you thought about wearing a hearing aid whilst dj so it sounds heaps louder than it really is?
then you can rave with music down low, maybe you can even get a party pack of hearing aids for when friends are over?

Sociopathic · Post by **Sociopathic** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:16 pm

J0rdz wrote: If only man! We signed a 12 month lease
Wish there was some way to gauge this shit when you go check out the apartments... haha

I always sign 12months because it's the easist way to get a place, sux that the neighbours have a fucken baby though even more so she trys to calm it in the hall way....that's fucked up, in her own place fine but in a common room fuck that.

Hearing aids could be a cool way to do it though, I seriously think i need one which sux though.