Critical Mass :: 11th Birthday Ride (Nov 24)

[aspekt]

What does critical mass actually achieve and who does it represent?

As a bike rider I can't really see what it achieves aside really pissing off those in cars who are inconvenienced as a result. Maybe it's me, but I don't see how that makes the roads any safer or furthers a cause.

it's a great way to alienate the people you're trying to bring awareness to.

If anyone seriously feels "alienated" by Critical Mass they probably need a bit of a reality-check.

i can't imagine there's too many drivers out there who after being pissed off by a shitload of cyclists, went "hey i should buy a bike".

[shepherd]

lol lucas - i like how you're so quickly dismissive of car drivers and whether they're alienated by Critical Mass but expect empathy and understanding as a cyclist.

I don't get it.

Personally I think there are far more effective ways of drawing attention to a cause. In reality, Critical Mass reaches an extremely small % of people as its efforts are focussed on limited areas of the city - the majority of people probably don't know they exist, and the majority of those who see them would consider them only an annoyance that makes their drive home on a Friday a more painful one. Shouldn't there be more effort in INFORMING people - not public displays of space reclaiming?

[lucas]

it's a great way to alienate the people you're trying to bring awareness to.

If anyone seriously feels "alienated" by Critical Mass they probably need a bit of a reality-check.

i can't imagine there's too many drivers out there who after being pissed off by a shitload of cyclists, went "hey i should buy a bike".

I did (and there's a witness to back me up), but hey, I guess I don't count.

In any case, the point still remains that cyclists have just as much right to the roads as car drivers do. So if a driver gets pissed off there is really no grounds for it other than their perception that cars have more right to the road (which is incorrect).

[system]

it's a great way to alienate the people you're trying to bring awareness to.

If anyone seriously feels "alienated" by Critical Mass they probably need a bit of a reality-check.

i can't imagine there's too many drivers out there who after being pissed off by a shitload of cyclists, went "hey i should buy a bike".

what about being stuck in peak hour every day? seems to be a similar experience doesn't it, except bicycles rule the roads.

doing the Canterbury to City drive daily got me riding to work regularly.

[shepherd]

"In any case, the point still remains that cyclists have just as much right to the roads as car drivers do."

Agreed - and cars and bikes can co-exist. I can't see how Critical Mass taking up the whole road for their outings really helps this.

[stovequeen]

Tis a complex little world we live in. Agree to disagree.. whatever.

I like bikes, nuff said

[aspekt]

"In any case, the point still remains that cyclists have just as much right to the roads as car drivers do."

Agreed - and cars and bikes can co-exist. I can't see how Critical Mass taking up the whole road for their outings really helps this.

[lucas]

Shouldn't there be more effort in INFORMING people - not public displays of space reclaiming?

I think both avenues (informing & space-reclaiming) are reasonable and justified. If people want to protest in the CBD about a war going on in another country, I think that's very reasonable. About more localised issues? Even more so.

You are entirely correct when in pointing out that Critical Mass isn't the only way of drawing attention to cycling/oil/planning issues, that doesn't make it any less valid in my opinion.

[lucas]

"In any case, the point still remains that cyclists have just as much right to the roads as car drivers do."

Agreed - and cars and bikes can co-exist. I can't see how Critical Mass taking up the whole road for their outings really helps this.

Exactly. But, cars and Bikes currently do not "co-exist". Cars are currently the dominant form of transport (and I don't mean by numbers).

The whole point of Critical Mass is to momentarily make bicycles the dominant form of transport.

[shepherd]

Why does something need to be more dominant?

Is this about ego or actually changing the situation?

[lucas]

Why does something need to be more dominant?

Is this about ego or actually changing the situation?

Of course it's about changing the situation. Bicycles do not -need- to be dominant. Personally I would love it if cars and bicycles co-existed (in the true sense of the word), but they don't.

Momentarily making bicycles the dominant form of transport is simply a way of making point.

[shepherd]

What is the point of making bicycles the dominant form of transport

I wouldn't think a lobby group would intentionally involve itself in actions that don't improve the situation they claim to be addressing.

How does a heap of people on bikes on the busiest peak hour time of a week really do anything aside cause friction?

[lucas]

What is the point of making bicycles the dominant form of transport

I wouldn't think a lobby group would intentionally involve itself in actions that don't improve the situation they claim to be addressing.

How does a heap of people on bikes on the busiest peak hour time of a week really do anything aside cause friction?

Probably for the same sort of reasons that groups of people stop working when they think they're not getting paid enough?

[stovequeen]

What is the point of making bicycles the dominant form of transport

Not sure about 'domination' as such. But perhaps people might get inspired to use their bike more instead of their cars.... and we all know there are loads of benefits to that

Look at Amsterdam.. the pushi rules over there. It would be great if Melbourne was similar. We already have trams, city waterways and great shopping in common

[shepherd]

What is the point of making bicycles the dominant form of transport

I wouldn't think a lobby group would intentionally involve itself in actions that don't improve the situation they claim to be addressing.

How does a heap of people on bikes on the busiest peak hour time of a week really do anything aside cause friction?

Probably for the same sort of reasons that groups of people stop working when they think they're not getting paid enough?

I don't see the parallels at all.

[lucas]

What is the point of making bicycles the dominant form of transport

I wouldn't think a lobby group would intentionally involve itself in actions that don't improve the situation they claim to be addressing.

How does a heap of people on bikes on the busiest peak hour time of a week really do anything aside cause friction?

Probably for the same sort of reasons that groups of people stop working when they think they're not getting paid enough?

I don't see the parallels at all.

I wouldn't think a lobby group would intentionally involve itself in actions that don't improve the situation they claim to be addressing.

[shepherd]

Ok - you used my own quote to prove your point ... but what are you trying to say?

Do you feel as a cyclist you are getting such a raw deal that you can compare yourself/cyclists to a striking worker protesting unjust workplace conditions?

Did you have a straight face when you were typing that?

[lucas]

Do you feel as a cyclist you are getting such a raw deal that you can compare yourself/cyclists to a striking worker protesting unjust workplace conditions?

No, I never made that comparison (if you think I did you mis-understood my point). The context/cause is obviously different, but the method of making our voice heard (and the seemingly illogical nature of it) has lots of similarities.

I should point out that I participate in Critical Mass not because I feel like I have a chip on my shoulder about getting cut off on my bike on the way to work each morning. It's also very much about oil, economy, environment & sustainability, urban-planning, health, etc, etc. Riding your bike to work is a factor in all of these, which is why I encourage it.

Did you have a straight face when you were typing that?

Indeed I did.

[lucas]

I like bikes.

[Fents]

I should point out that I participate in Critical Mass not because I feel like I have a chip on my shoulder about getting cut off on my bike on the way to work each morning. It's also very much about oil, economy, environment & sustainability, urban-planning, health, etc, etc. Riding your bike to work is a factor in all of these, which is why I encourage it.

Did you have a straight face when you were typing that?

Indeed I did.

I get the whole nature point, oil, emission gas's etc. But as a car driver (i do ride bikes to but never for transport just for fun) paying Rego and TAC fee's, i find it hard to comprehend that my money pays for your bike lanes.

Lucas how do you feel about a bike reg fee for riding on and mainting road's?

[lucas]

Lucas how do you feel about a bike reg fee for riding on and mainting road's?

I personally would be open to this idea. Especially if it meant improved bike lanes, more bicycle parking facilities, etc.

I can't speak for all cyclists obviously.

[Fents]

Yea thats cool wasnt meaning for you to generalise, was just a personal thing.

Good on ya mate i like your attitude.

[lucas]

Having said that...

I'm not sure if your car rego actually does pay for bike lanes. I believe this usually is the responsibility of local council so the money comes from rates, etc. (I could be totally wrong, but this is my current understanding)

Also, being a car driver too, I actually like the idea that some of the rego I pay funds bicycle lanes. Taking some of the rego money and using it to facilitate alternate transportation is a positive thing in my humble (and not always correct) opinion.

[lucas]

But, going back to your original point. Any kind of "user-pays" system is fine by me. Mini-e-tag styles perhaps?

[Fents]

Having said that...

I'm not sure if your car rego actually does pay for bike lanes. I believe this usually is the responsibility of local council so the money comes from rates, etc. (I could be totally wrong, but this is my current understanding)

Also, being a car driver too, I actually like the idea that some of the rego I pay funds bicycle lanes. Taking some of the rego money and using it to facilitate alternate transportation is a positive thing in my humble (and not always correct) opinion.

Having a morgate i pay Rates too tho. But yea see ur point.

[shepherd]

i don't mean to be a negative nancy, but a user pays system for bicycles would cause more problems than it solves. Logistically it'd cost more to set up than you could recoup.

Also, bike lanes etc would need to be improved greatly to pay for their usage ... have you riden on some of the bike lanes?? Some have potholes the size of the grand canyon.

[bobinabottle]

there seems to be an awful lot of cyclists who have a blatant disregard for the road rules. As a cyclist i realise the inconvenience of having to stop at a red light and as a motorist i get quite angry when people ride straight through them. i have trouble taking many cyclists seriously and consider them a danger to themselves and others, especially when you see (only just) cyclists at night with no lights, dark clothing and no helmet. you may FEEL incredibly obvious when you're riding home, but you certainly don't look it.

Sorry to quote a post that was from ages ago, but I only really just read this thread now. I've recently started riding my bike to uni/work and back rather than driving and I'm noticing many benefits such as improved health, saving money on petrol, and the main reason for me doing it, making me feel better about myself for not pumping black smoke into the atmosphere.

As a bit of a newbie to the whole thing, I find myself struggling a bit on the steep hills, and especially hills that have no bike lanes. When you are going quite slowly and holding up traffic it can be dangerous as cars will be more likely to zip closely past you. As a result, if I find it dangerous to be on the road when I'm going uphill, I generally ride on the footpath.

Yes, it is against the road rules. I am however, much safer doing it. Therefore I will continue to do so. You can say as much as you like about how bikes have a right to be on the road etc, but at the end of the day I'd prefer to break the rules and not get run over.

Also, on the whole riding bikes without lights business, what constitutes a good amount of visibility on the road at night? I have pretty bright lights on the back and front of the bike, and I generally wear a white t shirt when riding home from work at night, but I don't have any reflective gear to wear or anything, is this generally okay?

[lucas]

Legally you're required to have lights and reflectors on your bike; and that's it (I think). I'd recommend doing as much as you can to make yourself visible though.

The more you look like a christmas tree the better.

[aspekt]

Legally you're required to have lights and reflectors on your bike; and that's it (I think). I'd recommend doing as much as you can to make yourself visible though.

The more you look like a christmas tree the better.

I'm looking at getting reflective pinstriping on my bike =D


bob: it may be worth having some reflective strips sown on to your bag. reflective tape on your frame and rims is quite good too. I've got some if you remind me.
Riding on the footpath is unsafe in several rergards. Mainly cars pulling in and out of driveways. Drivers aren't expecting something traveling as fast as a bike. But I understand your point. My third (the smallest) chainring is 28 teeth on my road bike which is super handy for grinding up nasty hills. Highly recommended

on the rego/bike lane issue: If car regos go towards building and maintaining more and better bike lanes, more people will ride, meaning less congestion for cars. WIN FREAKIN WIN BABY!

[bobinabottle]

these look pretty awesome

http://www.adafruit.com/index.php?main_ ... ducts_id=5

http://www.fossilfool.com/down-low-glow.htm

[aspekt]

that's awesome!

[lucas]

[cj the taniwha]

missed out on critical mass (so go to be there for the next one) but did some volunteer marshalling at cyclovia on sunday.

it was awesome, all these people and especially kids on bikes riding up and down sydney road and it was all smiles and no noisy cars and smelly exhausts.

[lucas]

[bobinabottle]

my back tire exploded on the ride home tonight

that was scary

[aspekt]

my back tire exploded on the ride home tonight

that was scary

be grateful it wasn't your front one! I assume you were still using those ancient, perished ones?

[lucas]

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/ ... 76008.html

[cj the taniwha]

"Bureau of Statistics figures show that 1.1 million bikes were bought nationwide last year, compared with 988,000 new motor vehicles."

Wicked, but still not enough real $$ commitment to building and improving cyclepaths and facilities - more tunnels, over bridges and signals please and get rid of the stairs on the yarra -> city trail and make the st kilda -> brighton trail go along the water all the way, not stop it in the middle because of rich snobby landowners.

keen as to come on a critical mass, will try for this one.

[Rob M]

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/ ... 76008.html

With the way petrol prices are going, I kinda saw this a few years back. I should be working for AC Nielson Analysis department.

[lucas]

This month's critical mass starts in a couple of hours.

Bikes are fun.

[lucas]

[Zero Hour]

I got a couple of new flashy lights for my bike but I can't make it to this....doh!

[lucas]

Critical Mass turns 11 this Friday. Yay!

[cj the taniwha]

going on the great vic ride instead, will there be one in december before xmas?

[Sustain]

i've been meaning to hit this ever since this thread started

i think i will be there this week

Cos bikes rule ok?

[system]

[lucas]

going on the great vic ride instead, will there be one in december before xmas?

Yep, there will be one on the last Friday in December, on the 29th.

I expect it will be a quiet one though.

[Sustain]

that was great!

a very empowering experience

[ctoafn_DMZ]

I find it really rude how a bunch of people like Crticial Mass can hi-jack the road from roadusers who pay registration and a stupid amount of taxes when they fill up their car. In my eyes, they are only doing it to be a pain to all other road users.

Negfore you jump on me, in a perfect world, everyone would ride a bike (or drive cars that do not pollute the atmosphere, but this is not always possible. PT is most areas is non existant or if its there, rubbish. And if you are like a lot of people, who want to purchase their own property (or keep rent cheap) and are forced to live out in some 'woop woop' suburb which is too far to ride to and from work - cause this property boom has pretty much forced them too - driving a car is the only option.

Getting a stupidly large bunch of people together and causing mayhen for people simply trying to get home is disrespectful and rude. Its the people in the cars paying for the roads and infrastructure through their taxes. Its not their fault there are not enough bike lanes or whatever people do the critical mass for. Its the government and bullying the general public into believing your beliefs by inconviencing them is somewhat questionable, dont you think?

And I'm not gunna even get started on the stupid cyclists who nearly meet the front of my car driving to work along the beach every morning. Although I will say one thing. Why do all those wankers that ride down by the beach wear full lycra bike riding gear. None of them probably ride professionally but do they like to think they do if they wear the clothing??? Old men and lycra do not mix....................

I've had a pretty $hitty day at work hence the tyrade, but its still my opinions. Aspekt - you hit it in one mate.

PS - I just saw how old this thread was

[lynt]

Cyclists pay taxes, too, you know.