Abelton live

Tips, hints, help, tech support, setups, systems and all things related to making phat beats. Post your latest production for all to hear & review. Or quiz the resident nerds about that tech problem you just can't figure out.
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Re: Abelton live

Post by youthful_implants » Mon May 04, 2009 7:02 pm

C.I.A. wrote:Wordeth to thine mother, Lephrenic.

Is MAD. Tutorials for n00b d00fus types like me are A1. My brother (who is an awesome jazz musician and practices for 5 hours a day) has recorded some squarepusher-style beats for me to use. Pity I can't make them sound as fat as they need to be. Methinks that the recording has a bit to do with this, but 90% is my inability to nail compression.


negative, just turn up them up in relation to everything else.

simple but thats how it is. forget compression, seriously.
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Re: Abelton live

Post by spiral » Mon May 04, 2009 8:29 pm

C.I.A. wrote:Wordeth to thine mother, Lephrenic.

Is MAD. Tutorials for n00b d00fus types like me are A1. My brother (who is an awesome jazz musician and practices for 5 hours a day) has recorded some squarepusher-style beats for me to use. Pity I can't make them sound as fat as they need to be. Methinks that the recording has a bit to do with this, but 90% is my inability to nail compression.


best threads for ableton tips
tips n tricks
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Re: Abelton live

Post by Lephrenic » Mon May 04, 2009 11:07 pm

C.I.A. wrote:Wordeth to thine mother, Lephrenic.

Is MAD. Tutorials for n00b d00fus types like me are A1. My brother (who is an awesome jazz musician and practices for 5 hours a day) has recorded some squarepusher-style beats for me to use. Pity I can't make them sound as fat as they need to be. Methinks that the recording has a bit to do with this, but 90% is my inability to nail compression.

Chur.

Me, I've still not managed to nail compression and as such I rarely end up using it. EQ, however, is the balls.

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Re: Abelton live

Post by C.I.A. » Tue May 05, 2009 10:15 am

Hardy wrote:LOL CIA, girls can't make music!


:lol:

It's funny cos it's true. The tune I just wrote sounds like super mario bros on nangs.

Needs more serious.
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Re: Abelton live

Post by Direkt » Tue May 05, 2009 11:00 am

You are right though C.I.A. - it would be more to do with the recording techniques used.

Drums recorded in a drum room with decent mics and more importantly, good pre's - and then mixed well make a hell of a difference.

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Re: Abelton live

Post by C.I.A. » Tue May 05, 2009 11:20 am

Direkt wrote:You are right though C.I.A. - it would be more to do with the recording techniques used.

Drums recorded in a drum room with decent mics and more importantly, good pre's - and then mixed well make a hell of a difference.


Yeah, when I was in a band, the hardest part of recording was getting the drums right. Putting the 4 mics in the right place and then getting levels right. It was Yawntastic... I ended up falling asleep cos it went all night. And that was with two sound dudes who did that for a living, so my bro and a sony mp3 minidisk recorder doesn't really catch the waveforms at all. Probably be best just to use the patterns he has made and get the 808 drum to mimic them.
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Re: Abelton live

Post by deviant » Tue May 05, 2009 12:19 pm

seriously.... get this program..

http://www.xlnaudio.com/ Addictive Drums

best drum sounds, grooves and fills ever.

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Re: Abelton live

Post by gb » Tue May 05, 2009 12:30 pm

deviant wrote:seriously.... get this program..

http://www.xlnaudio.com/ Addictive Drums

best drum sounds, grooves and fills ever.


I concur... bought this about 6 months ago and got an expansion pack for it as well, included heaps of different kits and the ability to use multiple outputs so you can use all your DAW plugins on the seperate channels of the plugin. Options!

Alternatively, get your drummer and come record with me for a day @ Sing Sing!

http://www.singsing.com.au/

mmm... Neve preamps... 8) not cheap though :(

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Re: Abelton live

Post by C.I.A. » Tue May 05, 2009 12:34 pm

gb wrote:
deviant wrote:seriously.... get this program..

http://www.xlnaudio.com/ Addictive Drums

best drum sounds, grooves and fills ever.


I concur... bought this about 6 months ago and got an expansion pack for it as well, included heaps of different kits and the ability to use multiple outputs so you can use all your DAW plugins on the seperate channels of the plugin. Options!

Alternatively, get your drummer and come record with me for a day @ Sing Sing!

http://www.singsing.com.au/

mmm... Neve preamps... 8) not cheap though :(


:homerdrool:

:smt007
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Re: Abelton live

Post by beatnick » Tue May 05, 2009 5:11 pm

C.I.A. wrote:Wordeth to thine mother, Lephrenic.

Is MAD. Tutorials for n00b d00fus types like me are A1. My brother (who is an awesome jazz musician and practices for 5 hours a day) has recorded some squarepusher-style beats for me to use. Pity I can't make them sound as fat as they need to be. Methinks that the recording has a bit to do with this, but 90% is my inability to nail compression.


Really good tutorial on using compression in Ableton! - http://tarekith.com/assets/dynamics.html

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Re: Abelton live

Post by Direkt » Tue May 05, 2009 5:34 pm

beatnick wrote:Really good tutorial on using compression in Ableton! - http://tarekith.com/assets/dynamics.html

Good read mate. Have been meaning to try out parallel compression for a while.

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Re: Abelton live

Post by spiral » Tue May 05, 2009 6:48 pm

Direkt wrote:
beatnick wrote:Really good tutorial on using compression in Ableton! - http://tarekith.com/assets/dynamics.html

Good read mate. Have been meaning to try out parallel compression for a while.


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Re: Abelton live

Post by Direkt » Wed May 06, 2009 10:21 am

What's the go with the parallel compression rack mentioned in the article? It appears to be HTML?

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Re: Abelton live

Post by spiral » Wed May 06, 2009 1:36 pm

save as..
download
rename *.adg

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Re: Abelton live

Post by Direkt » Wed May 06, 2009 1:52 pm

Cheers

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Re: Abelton live

Post by unsoundbwoy » Wed May 06, 2009 3:26 pm

there's no autosave in ableton is there?
i just hit save as instead of save while making a template out of a set and saved over the one with clips with a blank one would be good if there was autosave and i could go back a version or two.

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Re: Abelton live

Post by C.I.A. » Wed May 06, 2009 3:53 pm

I have another n00b question.

When I open a new set, ableton puts the 808 drum kit and a synth into two of the clips. I think I may have inadvertently told it to do this every time I open a new set. How can I 'undo' this?
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Re: Abelton live

Post by a1studmuffin » Wed May 06, 2009 5:05 pm

Under Preferences, there's an option to "set current project as default template" or something along those lines. Set up a new project with what you want to appear every time you open it, and then press that button. :)

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Re: Abelton live

Post by a1studmuffin » Wed May 06, 2009 5:09 pm

Another quick beginner tip for production using Live:

If you're using samples on audio tracks (ie. not triggering samples from a MIDI sampler like Impulse or Battery), be sure to turn off "Warp" (or set it to "Repitch") and turn off "Fade" on each clip (you can set that as the default clip settings from memory), otherwise your samples will be getting some "not-so-great-for-production" quality Ableton time stretching done on them, and "Fade" will be fading in the start/end of the clip over a few milliseconds (this is intended to prevent audible clicks if the clip starts at a non-zero crossing, but for drum samples it can affect the initial transient which can make it sound a bit pants).

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Re: Abelton live

Post by Direkt » Wed May 06, 2009 5:36 pm

I've noticed that Ableton's warping leave audible crap on the time-stretching (even on really small pitch changes)... nothing can be done here unless using another plugin or program?

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Re: Abelton live

Post by unsoundbwoy » Thu May 07, 2009 2:28 am

a1studmuffin wrote:Another quick beginner tip for production using Live:

If you're using samples on audio tracks (ie. not triggering samples from a MIDI sampler like Impulse or Battery), be sure to turn off "Warp" (or set it to "Repitch") and turn off "Fade" on each clip (you can set that as the default clip settings from memory), otherwise your samples will be getting some "not-so-great-for-production" quality Ableton time stretching done on them, and "Fade" will be fading in the start/end of the clip over a few milliseconds (this is intended to prevent audible clicks if the clip starts at a non-zero crossing, but for drum samples it can affect the initial transient which can make it sound a bit pants).


you're talking version 7 or below?
i thought the fade was over 4 samples or something equally short?

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Re: Abelton live

Post by Snowie » Thu May 07, 2009 12:02 pm

Direkt wrote:I've noticed that Ableton's warping leave audible crap on the time-stretching (even on really small pitch changes)... nothing can be done here unless using another plugin or program?



That is fixed if turn the warp function from beats to complexed. Easy as.
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Re: Abelton live

Post by C.I.A. » Thu May 07, 2009 12:19 pm

a1studmuffin wrote:Another quick beginner tip for production using Live:

If you're using samples on audio tracks (ie. not triggering samples from a MIDI sampler like Impulse or Battery), be sure to turn off "Warp" (or set it to "Repitch") and turn off "Fade" on each clip (you can set that as the default clip settings from memory), otherwise your samples will be getting some "not-so-great-for-production" quality Ableton time stretching done on them, and "Fade" will be fading in the start/end of the clip over a few milliseconds (this is intended to prevent audible clicks if the clip starts at a non-zero crossing, but for drum samples it can affect the initial transient which can make it sound a bit pants).


:D

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Re: Abelton live

Post by Direkt » Thu May 07, 2009 12:31 pm

Snowie wrote:
Direkt wrote:I've noticed that Ableton's warping leave audible crap on the time-stretching (even on really small pitch changes)... nothing can be done here unless using another plugin or program?



That is fixed if turn the warp function from beats to complexed. Easy as.

Aaah... thank you sensei.

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Re: Abelton live

Post by a1studmuffin » Thu May 07, 2009 1:55 pm

Direkt wrote:I've noticed that Ableton's warping leave audible crap on the time-stretching (even on really small pitch changes)... nothing can be done here unless using another plugin or program?

Nah, the only way to get around this is, quite simply, to not use the internal timestretching. Either put clips in repitch mode, turn off warping altogether, or do your timestretching in another program like Melodyne.

@unsoundbwoy: The fade is probably only over a small number of samples, but it will still very noticably fluff up the transients if the sample has been tightly edited.

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Re: Abelton live

Post by a1studmuffin » Thu May 07, 2009 1:56 pm

Direkt wrote:
Snowie wrote:
Direkt wrote:I've noticed that Ableton's warping leave audible crap on the time-stretching (even on really small pitch changes)... nothing can be done here unless using another plugin or program?



That is fixed if turn the warp function from beats to complexed. Easy as.

Aaah... thank you sensei.

Not really - that's just telling it to use a different timestretching algorithm. You'll get unwanted (but different) artefacts on all warp modes except None/Repitch. For a lot of stuff you can get away with finding the least offensive algorithm, but for production you'll often want to use a better quality algorithm (eg. on an acapella that's going to be the focus of the track), or just avoid the issue altogether by chopping up the original sound into slices, or by not timestretching it at all (eg, on long sustained pads), or Melodyning it...

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Re: Abelton live

Post by a1studmuffin » Thu May 07, 2009 2:04 pm

On the topic of timestretching, I've always wondered why there isn't a program out there that has the option of a super super high quality time stretch, and what it does is, instead of just running the timestretch algorithm once with a set of parameters, it runs it 1000 or 2000 times with slightly different parameters each time, then mixes the results together. The idea behind that being that each timestretched result will have a certain amount of "error" and will be an approximation of the correct solution, and by spreading different error across each timestretch result + merging them together, you'd effectively reduce that error to a negligable amount. No idea if it would work. It'd be incredibly slow (ie. an offline process), just for cases where you wanted super high quality over performance. Maybe there's an error in my logic somewhere...

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Re: Abelton live

Post by fooishbar » Thu May 07, 2009 2:20 pm

a1studmuffin wrote:On the topic of timestretching, I've always wondered why there isn't a program out there that has the option of a super super high quality time stretch, and what it does is, instead of just running the timestretch algorithm once with a set of parameters, it runs it 1000 or 2000 times with slightly different parameters each time, then mixes the results together. The idea behind that being that each timestretched result will have a certain amount of "error" and will be an approximation of the correct solution, and by spreading different error across each timestretch result + merging them together, you'd effectively reduce that error to a negligable amount. No idea if it would work. It'd be incredibly slow (ie. an offline process), just for cases where you wanted super high quality over performance. Maybe there's an error in my logic somewhere...

there is an error in your logic. :) it's like saying that if you take 1000 explanations of september 11 and combine them together, you'll get the best approximation of the truth. your combined explanation though, involves ufos, giant lizards, godzilla, unicellular organisms bred by the cia + fbi + pakistan's isi, explosions, no explosions, and the number of planes definitely being both zero and four.

if you smash the results together, all the errors will accumulate: if you assume that a has an error at position 4 and b has an error at position 8, then a + b gives you one error at position 4 and one at position 8. iterate x1000 and you've got a pretty rubbish sounding sample, probably.
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Re: Abelton live

Post by same o » Thu May 07, 2009 2:59 pm

011011010110000101101110001000000110010001110101011100000111000001101001011001010111001100100000011010010111010000100000011000010111010000100000011011110110111001100101001001110111001100100000011000010110111001100100001000000111101001100101011100100110111100100111011100110010000001111001011000010010000001101011011011100110111101110111001011100010000001101111011011100010000001100001011011100110111101110100011010000110010101110010001000000110111001101111011101000110010100100000011010010010000001110100011010000110100101101110011010110010000001110111011001010010000001110011011010000110111101110101011011000110010000100000011001010110000101110100001000000111011101100001011000100110100100100000011100110110000101100010011010010010000001101101011011010110110101101101011011010110110100100000011101110110000101100010011010010010000001110011011000010110001001101001


tbh

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Re: Abelton live

Post by L-J » Thu May 07, 2009 3:08 pm

fooishbar wrote:
a1studmuffin wrote:On the topic of timestretching, I've always wondered why there isn't a program out there that has the option of a super super high quality time stretch, and what it does is, instead of just running the timestretch algorithm once with a set of parameters, it runs it 1000 or 2000 times with slightly different parameters each time, then mixes the results together. The idea behind that being that each timestretched result will have a certain amount of "error" and will be an approximation of the correct solution, and by spreading different error across each timestretch result + merging them together, you'd effectively reduce that error to a negligable amount. No idea if it would work. It'd be incredibly slow (ie. an offline process), just for cases where you wanted super high quality over performance. Maybe there's an error in my logic somewhere...

there is an error in your logic. :) it's like saying that if you take 1000 explanations of september 11 and combine them together, you'll get the best approximation of the truth. your combined explanation though, involves ufos, giant lizards, godzilla, unicellular organisms bred by the cia + fbi + pakistan's isi, explosions, no explosions, and the number of planes definitely being both zero and four.

if you smash the results together, all the errors will accumulate: if you assume that a has an error at position 4 and b has an error at position 8, then a + b gives you one error at position 4 and one at position 8. iterate x1000 and you've got a pretty rubbish sounding sample, probably.


More about these giant lizards please.
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Re: Abelton live

Post by fooishbar » Thu May 07, 2009 3:18 pm

L-J wrote:
fooishbar wrote:
a1studmuffin wrote:On the topic of timestretching, I've always wondered why there isn't a program out there that has the option of a super super high quality time stretch, and what it does is, instead of just running the timestretch algorithm once with a set of parameters, it runs it 1000 or 2000 times with slightly different parameters each time, then mixes the results together. The idea behind that being that each timestretched result will have a certain amount of "error" and will be an approximation of the correct solution, and by spreading different error across each timestretch result + merging them together, you'd effectively reduce that error to a negligable amount. No idea if it would work. It'd be incredibly slow (ie. an offline process), just for cases where you wanted super high quality over performance. Maybe there's an error in my logic somewhere...

there is an error in your logic. :) it's like saying that if you take 1000 explanations of september 11 and combine them together, you'll get the best approximation of the truth. your combined explanation though, involves ufos, giant lizards, godzilla, unicellular organisms bred by the cia + fbi + pakistan's isi, explosions, no explosions, and the number of planes definitely being both zero and four.

if you smash the results together, all the errors will accumulate: if you assume that a has an error at position 4 and b has an error at position 8, then a + b gives you one error at position 4 and one at position 8. iterate x1000 and you've got a pretty rubbish sounding sample, probably.


More about these giant lizards please.

i think pete explained it fairly well above.
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Re: Abelton live

Post by Direkt » Thu May 07, 2009 3:27 pm

Melodyne FTW.

Pretty shithouse on Ableton's form though... even ol' Acid had less artefacts in its timestretching.

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Re: Abelton live

Post by deviant » Thu May 07, 2009 4:56 pm

fooishbar wrote:
L-J wrote:More about these giant lizards please.

i think pete explained it fairly well above.


there are giant lizards at Wabi Sabi?

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Re: Abelton live

Post by fooishbar » Thu May 07, 2009 5:12 pm

deviant wrote:
fooishbar wrote:
L-J wrote:More about these giant lizards please.

i think pete explained it fairly well above.


there are giant lizards at Wabi Sabi?

haha, didn't bother translating
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Re: Abelton live

Post by same o » Thu May 07, 2009 5:42 pm

fooishbar wrote:there are giant lizards at Wabi Sabi?

haha, didn't bother translating[/quote]

ha!

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Re: Abelton live

Post by deviant » Thu May 07, 2009 5:54 pm

Giant Lizard Sashimi is apparently pretty good

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Re: Abelton live

Post by nic » Thu May 07, 2009 9:49 pm

hay guise foo and samo have been on another man-date
oo-errr

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Re: Abelton live

Post by fooishbar » Fri May 08, 2009 10:52 am

deviant wrote:Giant Lizard Sashimi is apparently pretty good

yellowtail sashimi > *
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Re: Abelton live

Post by same o » Fri May 08, 2009 1:06 pm

is all about zoots and wabi sabi..

u cannot test

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Re: Abelton live

Post by Direkt » Fri May 08, 2009 1:16 pm

No it's not, and you can test.

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Re: Abelton live

Post by same o » Fri May 08, 2009 1:43 pm

u say no its not but then dont provide somthing better..

wabi sabi & zoots still wins

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Re: Abelton live

Post by nic » Fri May 08, 2009 1:46 pm

bifta then ultimate sashimi plate b2b with gyoza and cold beer
on a warm evening

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Re: Abelton live

Post by fooishbar » Fri May 08, 2009 2:12 pm

nic wrote:bifta then ultimate sashimi plate b2b with gyoza and cold beer
on a warm evening

no sake? :(
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Re: Abelton live

Post by nic » Fri May 08, 2009 2:30 pm

sake after imo.

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Re: Abelton live

Post by Direkt » Fri May 08, 2009 2:51 pm

Katsu Curry with gyoza FTW.

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Re: Abelton live

Post by same o » Fri May 08, 2009 4:24 pm

nic knows, sake whole way through tho..

mind u if i drink sake i generally spend an extra $80 huhuhuhuh :tard:

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Re: Abelton live

Post by a1studmuffin » Fri May 08, 2009 4:32 pm

fooishbar wrote:
a1studmuffin wrote:On the topic of timestretching, I've always wondered why there isn't a program out there that has the option of a super super high quality time stretch, and what it does is, instead of just running the timestretch algorithm once with a set of parameters, it runs it 1000 or 2000 times with slightly different parameters each time, then mixes the results together. The idea behind that being that each timestretched result will have a certain amount of "error" and will be an approximation of the correct solution, and by spreading different error across each timestretch result + merging them together, you'd effectively reduce that error to a negligable amount. No idea if it would work. It'd be incredibly slow (ie. an offline process), just for cases where you wanted super high quality over performance. Maybe there's an error in my logic somewhere...

there is an error in your logic. :) it's like saying that if you take 1000 explanations of september 11 and combine them together, you'll get the best approximation of the truth. your combined explanation though, involves ufos, giant lizards, godzilla, unicellular organisms bred by the cia + fbi + pakistan's isi, explosions, no explosions, and the number of planes definitely being both zero and four.

if you smash the results together, all the errors will accumulate: if you assume that a has an error at position 4 and b has an error at position 8, then a + b gives you one error at position 4 and one at position 8. iterate x1000 and you've got a pretty rubbish sounding sample, probably.

Ah, but there's an error in your logic too. :) The errors won't accumulate, they'll be reduced to a negligable amount. In your example above, where a has an error at 4 and b has an error at 8, the mixed result will be a + b / 2, so the final result will have HALF an error at 4 and HALF an error at 8. If you scale up the sample size (lets say 1,000,000), each error in the final result is only 1 / 1,000,000 of its original amount.

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Re: Abelton live

Post by fooishbar » Fri May 08, 2009 4:51 pm

a1studmuffin wrote:
fooishbar wrote:
a1studmuffin wrote:On the topic of timestretching, I've always wondered why there isn't a program out there that has the option of a super super high quality time stretch, and what it does is, instead of just running the timestretch algorithm once with a set of parameters, it runs it 1000 or 2000 times with slightly different parameters each time, then mixes the results together. The idea behind that being that each timestretched result will have a certain amount of "error" and will be an approximation of the correct solution, and by spreading different error across each timestretch result + merging them together, you'd effectively reduce that error to a negligable amount. No idea if it would work. It'd be incredibly slow (ie. an offline process), just for cases where you wanted super high quality over performance. Maybe there's an error in my logic somewhere...

there is an error in your logic. :) it's like saying that if you take 1000 explanations of september 11 and combine them together, you'll get the best approximation of the truth. your combined explanation though, involves ufos, giant lizards, godzilla, unicellular organisms bred by the cia + fbi + pakistan's isi, explosions, no explosions, and the number of planes definitely being both zero and four.

if you smash the results together, all the errors will accumulate: if you assume that a has an error at position 4 and b has an error at position 8, then a + b gives you one error at position 4 and one at position 8. iterate x1000 and you've got a pretty rubbish sounding sample, probably.

Ah, but there's an error in your logic too. :) The errors won't accumulate, they'll be reduced to a negligable amount. In your example above, where a has an error at 4 and b has an error at 8, the mixed result will be a + b / 2, so the final result will have HALF an error at 4 and HALF an error at 8. If you scale up the sample size (lets say 1,000,000), each error in the final result is only 1 / 1,000,000 of its original amount.

sure, but that's not just errors, but any deviation as a whole. you'd have to have an extremely consistent set of filters to give any deviation worth doing, and hugely amplify the differences. it'd be pretty tough to do that and not just dampen the entire sound; you'd probably only just be dampening your sound and not really changing any characteristics. then again, burial's bare trendy and everyone wants to sound like a tape recorded off pirate radio, so it could be a winner. ;)

it's basically a maths problem at this point though.
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Re: Abelton live

Post by retzie » Mon May 11, 2009 7:58 am

Butterz - translating into graphics terms (to see if I understand), are you effectively wanting to vectorise a bitmap? ie. Approximate your data points with a continuous curve that can then be stretched? If so, maybe some of the algorithms they use for graphics can be adapted? Stanford seem to be onto something with Vector Magic.

It's totally not my bag maths-wise, but generating continuous approximations for discrete data sets seems like it might be fairly transferrable across media :dontknow:
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Re: Abelton live

Post by Lephrenic » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:53 pm

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