Production noob... where to start!

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Freeform
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Production noob... where to start!

Post by Freeform »

Hey guys,
Been thinking about producing for ages, now I've moved to Melbourne and got some time on my hands, I wanna get into it.
I'm mainly into my dnb and hip hop, was thinking about picking up an mpc to play around with samples and make some basic breaks.. But where do I start in terms of dnb and electronic tunes?

Ive played around on reason and cubase, done a bit of research..
In terms of gear now ive got 2 1210's, DJM 600 mixer, a basic midi keyboard with pads and faders and shit, annnnd a decent pc.

Where should I start in terms of dnb production?
Ive heard cubase is the way to go, that true?
Any gear thats a necessity for getting started?

Point me in the right direction :book:

Cheers :smt001
Dingo
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Re: Production noob... where to start!

Post by Dingo »

Have u got a mac or PC? Goin for live jams or bedroom zone sesh?
Cubase is good- but prob not the best to get 100% stuck into as a start on in terms of software.
I found Reason as a good starting point- and once u get that sorted u can rewire (runs all music tracks to different program eg. cubase, Ab live) into other programs- then u can get it more polished.
For hiphop MPC is where its at- with what u got would just need a couple of extra jacks and can sample anything to get ur ingredients to make some fat beats.
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flippo
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Re: Production noob... where to start!

Post by flippo »

firstly you're going to need a soundcard. Some pretty reasonable and cheap USB ones around for starting out. Just do some research to make sure you wont have any comparability problems with your existing hardware.

MPC are good for building beats and sample based music, but if you want to have easy control over individual notes and use alot of synths they will be limiting. I'd say your best bet is to focus on using your PC since you've already got that and your controller - the outlay cost will be cheaper, all you will need it a reasonable soundcard.

Can't recommend Reason enough for starting out with. It is a limiting software, but that will work in your favor as the learning curve will be a bit less steep for you. You will know when you have outgrown it, and then it will be a case of rewiring it to your new chosen DAW and making the transition.

It is not the best for using large chunks of audio, however. So, if you plan on sampling whole bars of existing music (likley with hiphop possibly?) it may not work that well for you. You have to feed all your audio through one of the samplers, which are generally geared towards being played as either individual drum hits or as building blocks to a pad/lead etc. Good or processing/bending/layering/playing the audio but not good for editing it/chopping it up or syncing and existing rhythm it your sequencers tempo. You can overcome this a bit if you use an external editing program like soundforge, or propellerheads recycle which will chop loops up into REX files that you can import into reason and easily sync and chop up, so it's not the end of the world if you want to do a little bit of that kind of thing.

Reason will force you to learn the basics of sound synthesis without getting too lost in mountains of VST's or a complicated 'profession style' interface.

Beyond that, only experience I've had is with cubase and ableton. Cubase will dramatically increased the sonic quality of your tunes over Reason. you will get much better mixdowns out of it, with VST's etc, but for actual composition in the end slowed me down a bit because I found it less hands on for midi etc. Always makes me feel like my hands were tied behind me back when writing, I feel like I'm dictating to it, rather than playing it. In short, I can get better sounding tunes out of it, they are just either not as good or a little awkward and slow to compose in the first place. For working with audio stems I find it's fantastic, however, so I reach for it when I need to do a finial mixdown on something.

Ableton is fantastic, very versatile and capable. It's particularly good if you want to do live work, or if you just want the writing stage to feel more live. You could probably do a bit better diving into that first up compared to cubase, but still might end up spread your learning a bit thin over the ground as there are so many different things you can do with it, and you can still pile in more VST plugins than you will know what to do with. I'd still recommend reason over albeton for starting out IMHO.

You will also need something to monitor your music through. To start with headphones might be a good idea? IMO you can get better quality sound for the dollar compared to speakers, and it will remove the difficulties of dealing with how your listening environment chews up the sound. The problem with headphones is that they are not very physical, so sometimes you wont get as excited about the music as the bass wont be hitting you in the chest. You can always get that effect from a home stereo with a bit of bottom end though. If you find yourself getting serious and wanting accurate loudspeakers then fork out for monitors later on imo.

I managed to get 2 12"s out of reason, a basic midi keyboard and a pair of senheisser HD212 Pros, so it's definitely possible to have some success on a budget setup.

plus, there is the danger of just playing with your gear as apposed to making music, which I sometimes am guilty off since accumulating more shiny toys with flashing lights :oops:



of course that's just my take, you will probably get other people who will advise you to get a top of the range Macbook, Logic and a pair of genelec monitors from the get-go to avoid wasting time, but yanno. heh.
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Re: Production noob... where to start!

Post by Dingo »

^Top advice
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youthful_implants
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Re: Production noob... where to start!

Post by youthful_implants »

ableton's great for beginners and pros alike.

watch online tutorials there are hundreds on youtube and elsewhere.

hook up with other like-minded people to share knowledge.

experiment and have fun!
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mrj
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Re: Production noob... where to start!

Post by mrj »

Agreed

I don't know shit really about production and classify myself as a base beginner, but these are my thoughts.

For starting out on I think Ableton is the best, and it will never hold you back. Its far more intuitive and easy to use than any other DAW. By the way this is coming from someone who is running Logic, which is a great program, but frustruating and I find sometimes counter intuitive. I'm waiting a bit but will prob buy Ableton so I use that as my DAW but rewire it with Logic to still use some of it's better features. Ableton is just so much easier to move around on, zoom in and out, copy or paste or whatever, it just behaves much better.

Reason I think is a silly program. Why have software that focussed on being a digital representation of hardware (as in using a mouse to move a knob) Doesn't that just make it like the hardware but not as good? I think maybe if your'e an AV techie or something then prolly starting on Reason would make sense, but if not then I'd say steer clear.

Cubase I put in the same cateogry as Fruity Loops, fine programs and probably I would never exhaust their options, but people probably would outgrow them, so you might as well get Ableton instead.

Pro Tools I've never used but it looks like it might suffer from Logic's complication syndrome. Nuendo got no idea.
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Dingo
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Re: Production noob... where to start!

Post by Dingo »

Why have software that focussed on being a digital representation of hardware
Not havin a dig- but hardware is mega expensive and you cant move it around much.
But tru- Reason sound quality is sub standard- Abelton is good for beginner/pro, so if u get that sussed, you'l laughing for years to come.
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flippo
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Re: Production noob... where to start!

Post by flippo »

mrj wrote: Reason I think is a silly program. Why have software that focussed on being a digital representation of hardware (as in using a mouse to move a knob)
I can kinda understand that, but there are a couple of reasons why I recon.
first it's nice and visual which tends to make things a bit easier. I guess coming from a guitar background, having pedals and plugging things in etc, that was good.

I recon the main reason (pun-tacular!) though is there are actually some cool things you can do in reason that would either be very very confusing and awkward to do in other sequencers, or just strait up not possible - and the way its represented on screen, with lots of boxes with wires dangleing out the back, is tied in with that. You can quite easily have a large number of parameters, from different devices on different tracks, being controlled by or influencing each other with CV routing and splitting. Similarly with audio splitting. You can get some really interesting rhythmic things going on across a number of elements that way, and have them all breathing into each other in a way. In other sequencers there really is not the capacity to do that kind of thing to that extent. The fact that you can flip the rack around and pull wires out and plug them in elsewhere, and link up CV data and the like is just a straight forward way of representing that kind of work flow without being a mind-numbingly confusing text/menu headache. It gives you far greater capacity than usual side chaining or send/return type tricks in other DAWs, and comparatively more straight forward and easy to keep track of on screen. Can't speak for logic but you certainly can't do that kind of thing in ableton or cubase for the most part, and if you could it would be visually much less intuitive imo.

it does look a bit daggy and toyish, though :)
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spin
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Re: Production noob... where to start!

Post by spin »

i started with cubase on the atari 1040st and a roland d5 in 1991(my brother got it to compose classical music, the guy at the shop said it was cutting edge, bon jovi use them! atari.) took me a month or so to work out how to quantize, had a crack copy of cubase 1, was flying blind, still some of the best fun makin music ever.

took a break ...

then got back into cubase on the mac in 2002, using calculators to work out delays was fun :s

got reason in 2005, was amazed but got tired of the sound and lack of plug ins and freedom.

then ableton in 2007, ableton seems to have the fun of reason and the depth of cubase... pretty cool.
actually, ableton is a pleasure to bash out jams with most days.

gotta pop my logic cherry one day...

whatever you use dont chase technology too much, amazing songs have been written on all sorts of gear, have fun and get to know whatever your using. fingers crossed magic will happen. like beasties and the 12 dollar microphones, pow!!!

good luck.

maybe, minimal is easier on ableton and drum n bass sounds better on logic, or the way people use those tools has shaped the sound, i could be wrong tho, just an idea...
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Livewire
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Re: Production noob... where to start!

Post by Livewire »

I agree with all the advise above.

I started out with the traditional sequencers (actually an atari/cubase like Spin!, then trackers, cakewalk/fruity and finally cubase again). I have always found the sequencer approach really hard to get quick inspiration from, as Flippo said it's more like you have to conceptualise your ideas as opposed to just jamming and being able to to try things instantly. Because of this its always taken a while to get tunes finished. Recently after resisting for so many years, I finally sat down and sussed out ableton and I gotta say it's totally blown my mind. By far the most inspirational DAW I've used as you can play it like an instrument, try out ideas on the fly, collaborate in the studio while jamming and recording etc. My approach now is to get basics of a track down with ableton, and once it's at a level that I wanna finish it, bounce out stems, arrange and mixdown in Cubase.
For finishing off an arrangement, I still think the traditional linear sequencer like cubase/logic/pro tools is def the way to go (you can do it in ableton but it doesn't fell as solid to me for this). While I find the best mixdowns I make are always done from stems anyway as it's a totally separate headspace from writing a tune for me.
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FoundationStepper
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Re: Production noob... where to start!

Post by FoundationStepper »

advice in here warrants a sticky i think, not the first time this has come up.

i think theres a tip to be said for how you approach eq, reverb, distortion and general fx etc on your first months of working - don't know how to best express it, but giving yourself some boundaries and picking a few key vst plugs to work within, so you dont spend forever tinkering, and can work on the basics?
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unsoundbwoy
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Re: Production noob... where to start!

Post by unsoundbwoy »

blaa blaa everyone's right.

def would not install any third party plugins early, the eq, compressors, verb, delay and soft-synths that come with ableton and logic (presumably cubase) give you plenty of flexibility and are visually great fo learning with as they have clear metering and graphs etc.
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