Mastering

Cubist · Post by **Cubist** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:34 pm

OK Who knows stuff? How do you guys master tunes? I'm currenlty exporting outta Cubase into Wavelab. Bit of EQ, bit of compression then L3 to maximise...Still not sounding that great though.

Can anyone point me in the direction of some reading material or some advices.

Cheers.

gb · Post by gb » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:44 am

Check out Bob Katz's website:

www.digido.com

or his book "Mastering Audio" - this guy's a guru and his material is pretty easy to read and understand.

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:04 am

For best results - give it to a pro mate.

I think even most pro producers send stuff off to get mastered, and it's not overly expensive.

Try Crystal Mastering if you're after pro results.

edit: today's post is brought to you by the word, 'pro'.

Little Evil · Post by **Little Evil** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:56 am

Cubist wrote:OK Who knows stuff? How do you guys master tunes? I'm currenlty exporting outta Cubase into Wavelab. Bit of EQ, bit of compression then L3 to maximise...Still not sounding that great though.

Can anyone point me in the direction of some reading material or some advices.

Cheers.

I'm at exactly the same point Eden.
Get the tune mixed down and panned out really well, but that final polish just seems beyond my grasp.
My end result is good, but not good enough.
I think what Direkt said was right on the ball - take it to a pro.

Talking to Blueprint last night, and he suggested 'Jack the Bear'.
Apparently he does a spectacular job, and is reasonaly cheap.

I'm going to give him two songs in the next couple of weeks.
Will let you know how it go's if you like?

flippo · Post by **flippo** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:04 pm

I've tried a few times and I can definatley get it sounding much better than what the sequencer spits out, but still not as full and lush as I'd like. I'd love to work on it and learn more but I guess it's kinda silly putting much effort into it without monitors, sorta just stabbing in the dark really. I was fortunate enough to have someone with good equipment and ill skillz to help me out for free on a track and was well impressed.

How much does it cost for a pro job by the way? Per tune? is it a flat rate, or depend on how much work they needed to do? whats this bear dude charging your LE?

Little Evil · Post by **Little Evil** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:09 pm

I think Blueprint said something about getting four songs or so done for about $500.
Will let you guys know as soon as I get onto him. (Jack the Bear)
Yet to contact him yet, but he's meant to be a great bloke, very passionate, and very professional.
Will keep you posted.

flippo · Post by **flippo** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:18 pm

shit, that's very reasonable. I guess they would have a bit of a sliding scale and you get what you pay for.

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:21 pm

I thought it started from around $100 a tune (which sounds similar to what Drew said).
Depends on who you go to and who you know I guess.

I know a couple of studio engineers and producers that never master their own stuff - as a fresh set of ears in the mastering process can really help.

Good mastering can add about 30% to the overall quality of your production is what I'm told. Bringing the mix all-together and add the final layer of polish.

LuKo · Post by **LuKo** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:08 pm

i have spoken with jack the Bear and he comes across as a really great guy, more than happy to spend 20 mins on the phone, with a complete stranger explaining the advantages and disadvantages for someone in my position, which is similar to that mentioned above

i look forward to hearing how the session goes Evil! A blow by blow description of what he did on the day (scaled back obviously

would be very insightfull!

Ag3nT[]0raNg3 · Post by **Ag3nT[]0raNg3** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:46 pm

gb wrote:Check out Bob Katz's website:

www.digido.com

or his book "Mastering Audio" - this guy's a guru and his material is pretty easy to read and understand.

ive got this book. its dopest.

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:11 pm

Is it practical? Easy to follow?

Snowie · Post by **Snowie** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:00 pm

Here's his website www.jackthebear.com.au/ , from what i've heard from T-Rek and Darvarj (PreShunk), Jack is one of the best in the country. Drew would be very keen to hear what he did to mastewr your tracks.

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:39 pm

one thing that helped me, mix and mastering wise is to do a spectral analiysis of stuff you sound like thats well mastered and on your own mixdown and have a think.
work more on the mixdown and on the individual samples.
cant make and recommendations australian, but could make a few oversears, but people will sook and say go local and shit so if you want suggestions pm me

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:01 am

unsoundbwoy wrote:one thing that helped me, mix and mastering wise is to do a spectral analiysis of stuff you sound like thats well mastered and on your own mixdown and have a think.

That's a great idea. I need to A/B so much more than I do (which is pretty much never!).

unsoundbwoy wrote: work more on the mixdown and on the individual samples.
cant make and recommendations australian, but could make a few oversears, but people will sook and say go local and shit so if you want suggestions pm me

If I'm reading what you're saying right - that's a pretty braod statement.
Are you saying nobody in Australia knows how to master?

I'm sure Jack the Bear, or Crystal can do more than an adequate job for our needs.

Post by **JAMESSSS** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:55 pm

Thats not what he said at all.

He just said that he doesn't have any australian reccomendations, but he does have some O/S recomendations.

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:14 pm

Ah. Hence me saying, "if I am reading this right".

Guess I was reading between the lines where it wasn't needed.

Silly me.

Post by **JAMESSSS** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:27 pm

Either that or I'm not reading between the lines.

Between us tho, we got it covered.

boot · Post by **boot** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:59 pm

dunno if anyone so that article a couple of months back in sos, it was about online mastering houses. It had a review and a blind test of three of them: eMasters (emasters.co.uk), Mastering World (masteringworld.com) and Metropolis iMastering (I know, what a ghey name-- metropolis-group.co.uk)
They seem pretty easy to use, you just upload your file (each upload system is different on each webpage) and two of them actually let you choose the mastering engineer you wanted to do the job. Prices ranged from about $90 to about $300 or so (these were for the "big name" engineers) and you can post comments about the mix you send them so the engineer knows what to look out for. They post back to you if there's any little things wrong with the original mix (too close to mono, jesus christ you use way too much compression on everything come back one year, that kinda thing)
But stupid me didn't buy the next issue that actually revealed the results of the blind test so i never found who the best one out of three was. damn

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:14 am

Yeah I remember seeing that one boot, I'd be very interested in hearing about the results...

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:55 pm

yup i meant i don't know anyone here.
not dissin the aussie massive

george horn at fantasy studios is a pretty amazing mastering at cutting engineer
if only i had the reason to justify the expense
http://www.fantasystudios.com/
what i have done before is get dubs cut by http://vinylcarvers.co.uk and order a cd of the master with the dub, costs about $25 for two tracks and what they manage is as good as anything I've heard come out of jack the bear. they pretty much ONLY work with drum and bass and jungle so i think they know their shit

cubist, you should post some audio up or email something to me at [email protected] I aint no mastering engineer, but maybe a new set of ears could help

LuKo · Post by **LuKo** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:07 pm

unsoundbwoy wrote:one thing that helped me, mix and mastering wise is to do a spectral analiysis of stuff you sound like thats well mastered and on your own mixdown and have a think.
work more on the mixdown and on the individual samples.
cant make and recommendations australian, but could make a few oversears, but people will sook and say go local and shit so if you want suggestions pm me

hey mate are you talking something like 'Inspector" or is it Inspector Gadget?

where you get a frequency graph representation of a commercial track you liken yours to and your actual master output?

read something in this months issue of future music the UK edition

what exactly do you use to do this?

boot · Post by **boot** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:10 pm

yeah inspector is decent, though my personal preference is voxengo span cos you can get a very detailed spectral analysis

Nick Thayer · Post by **Nick Thayer** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:07 pm

I mix all my own stuff

Got outboard valve compressors and the like to make it punchy and warm and ready to rock in clubs

Then once it is delivered to the labels they will get it mastered for vinyl, which is another kettle of fish altogether...

Anyways - if people want their stuff run through some outboard gear hit me up...

LuKo · Post by **LuKo** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:40 am

hey Nick

any chance you would name what outboard stuff you run your stuff thru at the final stages??

its great to be able to send some stuff to you, but would be better to aim to do it yourself eventually as well

I was watching a studio special with Nightmares on wax from future music and he basically has imperical labs processor and a compressor on his outboard followed by a roland digital noise remover and thats it, was surprised at how little was used really, has got me looking at things like the fatman or 2 fat

any thoughts on that sorta stuff?

Nick Thayer · Post by **Nick Thayer** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:51 pm

Funny you should mention the fatman

My valve bad boy is the
TLAudio 5021

Which is made by the same peeps
From memory that fatman and 2fat are guitar & mic frontend right?
All the TL Audio stuff sounds great as far as I can make out....

And yeah - i know what you mean bout NoW
Its not so much what you got as knowing how to use it.

I also got a cheap ass Alesis 3630 that I did a mod too to remove some of the circuitry
I use this for real flat guitars and percussion and the like

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:15 pm

I remember hearing some TLaudio promo tape thingy back when I was doing engineering....

it was phunny

it was like.... "here is a guitar track..... and here is the same guitar track with TLaudio valve compression"

sort of like a laundry detergent commercial

LuKo · Post by **LuKo** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:50 pm

hey nick I think this one the '2 fat' is for all sorts of studio use from what i can make out

http://www.fat-man.co.uk/docs/product/2_fat_1.htm

they do have specialist guitar and bass guitar units as well

removed circuitry from a compressor?? interesting!

Cubist · Post by **Cubist** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:57 pm

I been looking at the stereo TL valve compressor. Also looking at the Avalon as it also has EQ but is pretty much twice the price...hmmm

LuKo · Post by **LuKo** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:52 pm

pretty sure there was an avalon unit in NoW studio

however he said he used it for vocals, and i have read elsewhere people using avalon stuff for vocals

just gonna go search....hey is this the one you refer to: http://www.avalondesign.com/review16.html

LuKo · Post by **LuKo** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:55 pm

boot wrote:yeah inspector is decent, though my personal preference is voxengo span cos you can get a very detailed spectral analysis

i wanna know more about this

boot · Post by **boot** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:07 pm

i wanna know more about this

It'a available for free download, check it out, i love it, and it's just recently (two months ago, kinda recent i guess) had an update too
http://www.voxengo.com/files/VoxengoSPA ... _setup.zip

a1studmuffin · Post by **a1studmuffin** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:36 pm

I'd love to hear an a/b comparison of a beat before + after going through a valve compressor if anyone can be arsed putting something up

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:10 am

http://www.myspace.com/jackthebearmastering

a1studmuffin · Post by **a1studmuffin** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:06 am

That's a pretty impressive client list he's got there.

LuKo · Post by **LuKo** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:29 pm

boot wrote:
i wanna know more about this
It'a available for free download, check it out, i love it, and it's just recently (two months ago, kinda recent i guess) had an update too
http://www.voxengo.com/files/VoxengoSPA ... _setup.zip

cheers bro will look into it this weekend

yeah I'd be keen on an A/B test as well

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:07 pm

Focusrite Liquid or STFU

LuKo · Post by **LuKo** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:24 pm

link me to it or STFU !

strategem · Post by **strategem** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:47 pm

for the record, Tony Mantz (aka Jack the Bear) is renowned around the world for his mastering. He is the fucking man, someone mentioned his client list...if you havent seen it yet take a look. People have flown in from all over the world to spend a couple of days with him. And now that he has opened his new studio (which is just porn) his work has gone up another notch. The man is incredible, I cant sing his praises highly enough. we deal with him a lot, a lot of the work we press comes through his hands first. No TP has ever been knocked back.

someone mentioned dub cutting? www.acousticweaponry.com
we are the only ones in aus offering vinyl dubs, these are dub plates cut onto a material much like vinyl, that last as long as vinyl. The lathe had to be specially designed and built. A standard dub (which we still offer) lasts around 60 plays before noticible audio degradation. We played a locked loop on a vinyl dub literally hundreds of thousands of times and there still was no noticable degradation.

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:36 pm

LuKo wrote:link me to it or STFU !

FOCUSRITE LIQUID MIX:
http://www.focusrite.com/news.asp?id=118

FOCUSRITE LIQUID CHANNEL:
http://www.focusrite.com/productdetails ... 7&iRange=1

LuKo · Post by **LuKo** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:36 pm

ahh Mac - I'm a pc user

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:13 pm

Me too.... Liquid Channel is hardware, running on both platforms.

The Liquid Mix should be PC compliant within a couple of months (ie. September).

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:27 pm

a friend just told me about this program
http://har-bal.com/

you load an unmastered track of your own and a reference and it does a spectral analysis a few other things and then recommends what ya do to it.
now im not suggesting ditch the mastering engineer, but it could be a pretty helpful tool, esp for dubs.
here's a sound on sound article from a couple of years back
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar04/a ... harbal.htm

oh and hint hint to anyone on audionews.ru

CoB · Post by **CoB** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:16 pm

u reckon them vinyl carver lads are ok unsound?
do u give them the entire mixdown of tunes, or each channel seperately..

I'm really not great with stuff, but I'd kinda assume it'd be better if they had all the channels, and could tweak everythin right..
*shrugs*

factory worker · Post by **factory worker** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:05 pm

I always thought the mastering process was juist mastering, any mix downs or anythign is something different.

some advise I got given by Kog Transmisisons a few years ago for masters involving vocals (besides A-B refencing) was too provide 3 mixes - one as you think it should be and then the same mix but with 6 dB louder and quieter.

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:30 pm

6dB is quite a bit mate... you sure it wasn't more like 1-2db?

CoB · Post by **CoB** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:32 pm

yeah, it is something different from that..
but..
by channel i mean like each instrument..
like do u send them the drums as one wav file.
the vocals as another etc.
or.. do u just send them the entire song as one wav?
know what i mean?

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:51 pm

Mastering is usually done on what's called a 'two-track' mixdown, ie. a stereo track (left and right channels).

It is the mixdown process where every single instrument/audio track is bounced down seperately before being mixed by an engineer (or yourself) as I understand it.

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:02 pm

mixed down uncompressed un eqed wav.
tina and werner at vinyl carvers are pretty good.
but depends on what its for. i wouldnt use them for a run of 500, but for a dub then hell yeh, ill put something unmastered and then mastered by them up and send you the link in next few days

but about har-bal
anyone used it???

CoB · Post by **CoB** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:40 pm

cheers for clearin that up

and erm.. i didnt realise harbal was not free (but what is :p)

Little Evil · Post by **Little Evil** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:03 pm

strategem wrote:for the record, Tony Mantz (aka Jack the Bear) is renowned around the world for his mastering. He is the fucking man, someone mentioned his client list...if you havent seen it yet take a look. People have flown in from all over the world to spend a couple of days with him. And now that he has opened his new studio (which is just porn) his work has gone up another notch. The man is incredible, I cant sing his praises highly enough. we deal with him a lot, a lot of the work we press comes through his hands first. No TP has ever been knocked back.

someone mentioned dub cutting? www.acousticweaponry.com
we are the only ones in aus offering vinyl dubs, these are dub plates cut onto a material much like vinyl, that last as long as vinyl. The lathe had to be specially designed and built. A standard dub (which we still offer) lasts around 60 plays before noticible audio degradation. We played a locked loop on a vinyl dub literally hundreds of thousands of times and there still was no noticable degradation.

Word.
He did some work for me last week.
Now I have tune being maybe signed.
He made it sound like gold.
He is definately the man.
Well recomended - and an incredibly nice bloke too.

Not incredibly cheap - but does one hell of a fantastic job though, and is worth every penny.
I recomend him thoroughly, and his new studio is just insane.
He lets you sit on the couch at the back while he works.
And even makes you coffee!

I won't be going to anyone else from now onwards.

Melbourne Beats

Mastering

Mastering

Re: Mastering