Spot on, mrj, hence my comment about Jesus being most upset with the "selectivists".mrj wrote: I agree with that
I was actually thinking about the term "fundamentalism" particularly with regards to religion last night, and I think the term is misused.
These people are not religious fundamentalists in my view.
The christian doctrine, among other things, is based on the ten commandments. Yes? No?
So if the US truly adhered to Christian fundamentalist doctrine you would think that they would not be engaged in acts of war (nor terrorism), as this is (pretty hard to wage a war without killing, although we could always resort to name calling, or hurtful text messages).
I think Christian "fundamentalists" would be much better branded Christian "selectivists" in that they choose to adhere parts of their religion that are convenient in legitimising their actions and manufacturing consent from the populace.
Jesus Camp
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quiet roar
- Posts: 1543
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The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well
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kronz
- Posts: 5881
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- Location: so a family walks into a talent agent and the talent agent says "what's your act"?
lol. we have to sign up!!!Little Evil wrote:Can you imagine that?kronz wrote:I tell you what LE i'll join jesus camp with you. I think we could have some fun there.
Two of the most staunch ant-religious people who post on here, going to Jesus camp.
We'd get burnt at the stake mate.
But as Long as I took that pre-pubescent preacher with the trailor trash tail down before they got me, I'd be cool with that.
blah religion blah. whilst i accept that it plays a major role in some people's lives, i don't subscribe to it. i do believe that there's probably some omnipotent being watching over everything.
that having been said, i reckon that when it boils down to it, religion is a method for coping with a fear of death.
that having been said, i reckon that when it boils down to it, religion is a method for coping with a fear of death.
holy shiet, that is pretty farked up.
man it wud be tough being a parent. on one side you can raise your children and try get them to grow up a certain way that you feel is right. or you can try and raise them to be totally independent and to believe and follow whatever they want to. but then saying that, kids just have a natural desire to be like and impress their parents (usually) so i can see why these camps and other religious stuff is so easily accepted by kids.Grey Son wrote:ive noticed how easy it is to mold your children into anything you like, its so easy its scary.
I'd say they were more 'religious extremists'.quiet roar wrote:Spot on, mrj, hence my comment about Jesus being most upset with the "selectivists".mrj wrote: I agree with that
I was actually thinking about the term "fundamentalism" particularly with regards to religion last night, and I think the term is misused.
These people are not religious fundamentalists in my view.
The christian doctrine, among other things, is based on the ten commandments. Yes? No?
So if the US truly adhered to Christian fundamentalist doctrine you would think that they would not be engaged in acts of war (nor terrorism), as this is (pretty hard to wage a war without killing, although we could always resort to name calling, or hurtful text messages).
I think Christian "fundamentalists" would be much better branded Christian "selectivists" in that they choose to adhere parts of their religion that are convenient in legitimising their actions and manufacturing consent from the populace.
Any unquestioning adherence to any kind of metanarrative (showing my uni degree here) is bad in my books.
did you hear the news? they found WMD's in the US! about 10,000 of them to be exact.mrj wrote:Furthermore, imagine if the US achieves sole militarisation of space utilises this capability under such an agressive fundamentalist religious doctrine (not to say that current US policy is not aggressive, it is the definition of aggresive).
seriously, think about it. The US would have the ability to kill anyone in the world within the space of say 3-4 minutes and would be making those decisions primarily on whether you were "with jesus" or "against jesus"
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Grey Son
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Any more info Flip....????flippo wrote:did you hear the news? they found WMD's in the US! about 10,000 of them to be exact.mrj wrote:Furthermore, imagine if the US achieves sole militarisation of space utilises this capability under such an agressive fundamentalist religious doctrine (not to say that current US policy is not aggressive, it is the definition of aggresive).
seriously, think about it. The US would have the ability to kill anyone in the world within the space of say 3-4 minutes and would be making those decisions primarily on whether you were "with jesus" or "against jesus"
Well at least i will be the fattest guy on the street gettin a boat
HEY HEY HEY im gettin a boat!!!!
www.myspace.com/greysonsoul
HEY HEY HEY im gettin a boat!!!!
www.myspace.com/greysonsoul
flippo wrote:did you hear the news? they found WMD's in the US! about 10,000 of them to be exact.mrj wrote:Furthermore, imagine if the US achieves sole militarisation of space utilises this capability under such an agressive fundamentalist religious doctrine (not to say that current US policy is not aggressive, it is the definition of aggresive).
seriously, think about it. The US would have the ability to kill anyone in the world within the space of say 3-4 minutes and would be making those decisions primarily on whether you were "with jesus" or "against jesus"
But so scarily true.
Mrj: w3rd. That is the one thing we didn't cover on Saturday... the role of religion in the development of the US Republican doctrine. Seperating Justice, Law and the State is becoming incresingly difficult, especially when Religion is thrown into the mix.
I wanted to be a hero. I wanted to be the center of attention. I wanted the glory, I wanted the fame. I wanted the pretty girls to come up and say, "Hi, I see that you're good at Centipede."
one nation under God. Monotheist religion and government is such a dangerousn fucking combination, it's just terryfying. If you want to base your own private thoughts, your personal spiritualness on something that defies logic by all means by my guest. You obviously feel something I don't and good luck to you if it makes you happy. But if the supernatural is rooted in the foundation of the state, of law, and in particular forgeign policy, your fucked, we're fucked. Organised religion is typicaly very inflexable, once you allow that kind of inflexability to become engrained into the secular world by default, then why even bother having a democracy, why even bother having science?C.I.A. wrote:flippo wrote:did you hear the news? they found WMD's in the US! about 10,000 of them to be exact.mrj wrote:Furthermore, imagine if the US achieves sole militarisation of space utilises this capability under such an agressive fundamentalist religious doctrine (not to say that current US policy is not aggressive, it is the definition of aggresive).
seriously, think about it. The US would have the ability to kill anyone in the world within the space of say 3-4 minutes and would be making those decisions primarily on whether you were "with jesus" or "against jesus"
But so scarily true.
Mrj: w3rd. That is the one thing we didn't cover on Saturday... the role of religion in the development of the US Republican doctrine. Seperating Justice, Law and the State is becoming incresingly difficult, especially when Religion is thrown into the mix.
It's amazing how something so small, squidgy and grey that's only a couple inches behind the forehead can be so detrimental to fellow man; on a grand scale!
Religion is an imposition of perceived values, truths, half-truths and solidified brainwashing techniques based on scriptures both forgotten, lost or rewritten. No wonder there is so much confusion and conjecture as to how liberal within each defined relgions' philosophies can grow.
Religion itself is a massive abberation to the human spirit. It makes you wonder how Buddhist monks and even Zen masters have no such inclination of ego when it comes to their specific religion; nor does it explicitly imply or force adherence outside of Natural Law to a, one, true state of being.
We are not our past, nor should we instill fear into people (let alone kids) of their futures through the eyes of abhorrent individuals who scare-monger destiny based on historical measurements. Religion is available to anyone. Ignorance doesn't bestow truth unto the righteous.
Ego is a massive power-struggle for humanity as it stands right now through religion -- even in Natural Law. Religion feeds off ego and saps the life-force from people who would throw their own books in the fire and begin writing anew based on falsehoods and misinterpretations from the one or many. [Remember Hitler, anyone?].
...or is religion becoming another fascist outlet for spilling propoganda onto unsuspecting minds; ultimately influencing direction through civil expectation, adherence and unwielding obedience.
The key I believe is to always have religion as an open outlet, not a closed unified book. Nor should any book of religion be burnt for that matter. Each [religion] has its place to teach and make people learned in the way of experience; and granting conscienceness to the mind through choice.
Governements do not permit this innate sense of freedom, they restrict movement within it. Governments deliniate objectivity through statistcal analysis and acceptance in judging the 'one' true state of being...
...it's their job to define what the people want. We are Australian, therfore a new Australian citizen must fundamentaly accept our rules, our doctrines, our beliefs, our way of life, and become learned in our knowledge. Conform or die. Yield and ye shall prosper. Pick one.
Governments are supposed to represent our voice and yet we let them essentially stifle man's law and various interpretations of it by dissemination of control through fear.
Control and freedom comes through inner tranquility and freeing the mind from traps of injustices as left to the individual -- not through consent or social interpretations.
It's the theories, hyptheses and postulations of man that unwittingly endanger choice without experience. Growth, without knoweldge. Law then becomes bound to religion. I don't think personal beliefs should be instilled as common law. Nor should the two be confused.
To simply fobb off discussion or openess in areas of peoples own beliefs is to spit in the face of mutual respect. This, I guarantee, will ultimately lead to social meltdown and give birth to malice, and further fluctuate hate in all things unknown and feared.
However you must let people decide their destiny through experience. If you don't understand the why, people must learn the why.
So the question is not why do we have religion at all, but why we need it at all. And I believe in the grand scheme of things, everything is thrust into successive patterns for a reason.
We do not learn from history, and I don't think we truly ever will. Therefore, the complexity of the human endevour is too overwhelming for it to be deduced down to a singular form. There is no linear format to follow. Religion implies lineation. A lineage of passage from the unrighteous to the enlightened.
The enlightened are the people who move through life with no fear, the people who strive in a conviction greater than themeselves...
It is Steve Irwin's religion. It is Peter Brock's religion. It is your religion, your convictions. Your unwielding idealogy to a fundamental truth in doing the right thing.
Religion is an imposition of perceived values, truths, half-truths and solidified brainwashing techniques based on scriptures both forgotten, lost or rewritten. No wonder there is so much confusion and conjecture as to how liberal within each defined relgions' philosophies can grow.
Religion itself is a massive abberation to the human spirit. It makes you wonder how Buddhist monks and even Zen masters have no such inclination of ego when it comes to their specific religion; nor does it explicitly imply or force adherence outside of Natural Law to a, one, true state of being.
We are not our past, nor should we instill fear into people (let alone kids) of their futures through the eyes of abhorrent individuals who scare-monger destiny based on historical measurements. Religion is available to anyone. Ignorance doesn't bestow truth unto the righteous.
Ego is a massive power-struggle for humanity as it stands right now through religion -- even in Natural Law. Religion feeds off ego and saps the life-force from people who would throw their own books in the fire and begin writing anew based on falsehoods and misinterpretations from the one or many. [Remember Hitler, anyone?].
...or is religion becoming another fascist outlet for spilling propoganda onto unsuspecting minds; ultimately influencing direction through civil expectation, adherence and unwielding obedience.
The key I believe is to always have religion as an open outlet, not a closed unified book. Nor should any book of religion be burnt for that matter. Each [religion] has its place to teach and make people learned in the way of experience; and granting conscienceness to the mind through choice.
Governements do not permit this innate sense of freedom, they restrict movement within it. Governments deliniate objectivity through statistcal analysis and acceptance in judging the 'one' true state of being...
...it's their job to define what the people want. We are Australian, therfore a new Australian citizen must fundamentaly accept our rules, our doctrines, our beliefs, our way of life, and become learned in our knowledge. Conform or die. Yield and ye shall prosper. Pick one.
Governments are supposed to represent our voice and yet we let them essentially stifle man's law and various interpretations of it by dissemination of control through fear.
Law, paradoxically, is in itself somehow inexeriably become ingrained and amalgamated into religion for the sake and benefit of acknowledging right from wrong, and yet people don't see this fallability when it comes to decision-making for the many in certain key aspects to legislation -- especially things to do with privacy and the impact of terrorism at the community level. This can be a heated debate, however I digress."How can we rumble the status quo of our community?"
..."I know! Let's throw the book of religion into the fire and see what happens!
Control and freedom comes through inner tranquility and freeing the mind from traps of injustices as left to the individual -- not through consent or social interpretations.
It's the theories, hyptheses and postulations of man that unwittingly endanger choice without experience. Growth, without knoweldge. Law then becomes bound to religion. I don't think personal beliefs should be instilled as common law. Nor should the two be confused.
To simply fobb off discussion or openess in areas of peoples own beliefs is to spit in the face of mutual respect. This, I guarantee, will ultimately lead to social meltdown and give birth to malice, and further fluctuate hate in all things unknown and feared.
However you must let people decide their destiny through experience. If you don't understand the why, people must learn the why.
So the question is not why do we have religion at all, but why we need it at all. And I believe in the grand scheme of things, everything is thrust into successive patterns for a reason.
We do not learn from history, and I don't think we truly ever will. Therefore, the complexity of the human endevour is too overwhelming for it to be deduced down to a singular form. There is no linear format to follow. Religion implies lineation. A lineage of passage from the unrighteous to the enlightened.
The enlightened are the people who move through life with no fear, the people who strive in a conviction greater than themeselves...
It is Steve Irwin's religion. It is Peter Brock's religion. It is your religion, your convictions. Your unwielding idealogy to a fundamental truth in doing the right thing.
^^^
The most abhorrent thing about some structured religions is IMO their use as a smokescreen by the state. For example, the Catholic Church; no-one in their right mind can argue that the people pulling the strings in such a wealthy "religion" are concerned primarily with helping people acheive some sort of religious enlightenment (or at least prevent them from burning in hell for all eternity). Western society has, since the middle ages, seen an increase in the intertwined church and state. Control the masses with fear and/or reward. The irony of religion being used as a mechanism for control and profit is pretty bizzare.
The most abhorrent thing about some structured religions is IMO their use as a smokescreen by the state. For example, the Catholic Church; no-one in their right mind can argue that the people pulling the strings in such a wealthy "religion" are concerned primarily with helping people acheive some sort of religious enlightenment (or at least prevent them from burning in hell for all eternity). Western society has, since the middle ages, seen an increase in the intertwined church and state. Control the masses with fear and/or reward. The irony of religion being used as a mechanism for control and profit is pretty bizzare.
I wanted to be a hero. I wanted to be the center of attention. I wanted the glory, I wanted the fame. I wanted the pretty girls to come up and say, "Hi, I see that you're good at Centipede."
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speakerwrath
- Posts: 276
- Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:13 am
- Location: Brisbane
that shit makes me angry.
in response.... this doco by Richard dawkins:
http://www.youtube.com/?v=CPaD6D54L4o
http://www.youtube.com/?v=TUy-Uq3WuhA
http://www.youtube.com/?v=8GgD3lgspQE
in response.... this doco by Richard dawkins:
http://www.youtube.com/?v=CPaD6D54L4o
http://www.youtube.com/?v=TUy-Uq3WuhA
http://www.youtube.com/?v=8GgD3lgspQE
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Little Evil
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Grey Son
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- Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:12 pm
- Location: .......-------........-------........
Like Bart said" we should never forget the real reason for christmas..................the birth of santa"!!
Well at least i will be the fattest guy on the street gettin a boat
HEY HEY HEY im gettin a boat!!!!
www.myspace.com/greysonsoul
HEY HEY HEY im gettin a boat!!!!
www.myspace.com/greysonsoul
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kronz
- Posts: 5881
- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:57 am
- Location: so a family walks into a talent agent and the talent agent says "what's your act"?
Like other forms of religious fundamentalism, Christian fundamentalism is a dreaded doctrine of supremacy, a cult of hatred and a recipe for disaster. And with an avowed born-again Christian at the helm of affairs in America who claims to be appointed to that position by God and to be dictated by what he claims to be divine communication, one shudders to think of what more brutalities are in store for the world if Christian fundamentalism is allowed to remain unchallenged.
GO CATS! GO CATS!
mrj wrote:a rapid decline in dradle usage?
but possibly...
Many genocidal reigimes hide behind the facade of religion. Unfortunatley it seems that poverty and extremism go hand in hand... and when you are desperate and your family are starving, even if you don't believe everything that is being spouted by extremists, doing something seems better than doing nothing.
There is a constant cycle of boom-bust. What will happen to the US when the next major stock market crash happens?? My guess... religion will be pushed as a panacea by governments who want to get their hands on resources that are held by countries that are not christian.
I wanted to be a hero. I wanted to be the center of attention. I wanted the glory, I wanted the fame. I wanted the pretty girls to come up and say, "Hi, I see that you're good at Centipede."
