Ban on smoking vs Suitability as Licensed Premises

Post by **breaksRbest** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:41 pm

I'm goin' for a ciggie

DBoy · Post by **DBoy** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:44 pm

sorry, this is no smoking thread, you will have to go to another thread.

I just can not get my head around how places with no outside area and no pass outs will operate.

Fair enough that they are warning against venue opening with out taking into account the situation from next year. Otherwise by August 2007 they will be inundated with noise complaints, especially if they are near residential areas.

Would be silly to open a licenced premises and not take it into account anyways.

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:56 pm

It would be silly but people dont think about noise when they start a venue. it happens all the time.

Well are there circunstances where it seems reasonable to issue pass outs?

What do people think about what might be manageable tools to minimise on street noise?

Input would be good, im trying to formulate policies around this!

DBoy · Post by **DBoy** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:00 pm

places like revolver don't do pass outs and can not ever really.

places like hi-fi dont until a certian time, and imaginse having 20-40 people out the front of that place at any one time, constantly coming and going, all night. On Swanston St.
Not reasonable to expect them to create out door area, the venue is under ground.

Sustain · Post by **Sustain** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:14 pm

i've always thought that workshop had been designed with these laws in mind...

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:27 pm

workshop is. certainly...

taking your example, result with revolver or hifi is basically no smoking at all then... unless there was a limited pass out system to say 10 people at once... (dont know how do do that though)

the question being - is that a problem?

interesting evidence from overseas is that introduction of smoking bans has not had any long term negative impacts on the licensed premises industry...

Post by **JAMESSSS** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:35 pm

New Zealand has done it.

Someone was just telling me the 1 year figures came out and no sector has suffered financially (apart from ciagrette companies).

ie: More sales at bars etc...

Not sure how accurate that kinda stuff is tho.

sneaky hands · Post by **sneaky hands** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:36 pm

its a fact that the vast majority of australians dont smoke.

putting 2 and 2 together, id suggest that banning smoking completely at clubs will be good for business as it will attract those who previously were too disgusted by the smoke. The number of people it alienates would be dwarfed by the number of people it attracts.

mecka · Post by **mecka** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:40 pm

sneaky hands wrote:its a fact that the vast majority of australians dont smoke.

putting 2 and 2 together, id suggest that banning smoking completely at clubs will be good for business as it will attract those who previously were too disgusted by the smoke. The number of people it alienates would be dwarfed by the number of people it attracts.

How many people do you know use other people smoking as a reason to not go out?

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:41 pm

me

my girlfriend

its certainly a factor, although not a reason not to go by itself... it makes the whole idea less attractive

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:43 pm

I have friends that simply wont come out to gigs at all because of smoke.

sneaky hands · Post by **sneaky hands** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:44 pm

yeh loads
they arent super-keen nightclub punters regardless, but i know plenty of people that use it as a reason.

aspekt · Post by **aspekt** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:48 pm

sneaky hands wrote:yeh loads
they arent super-keen nightclub punters regardless, but i know plenty of people that use it as a reason.

yeah exactly, but it's not just clubs as well, bars and pubs and whatnot.

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:52 pm

mecka wrote:
sneaky hands wrote:its a fact that the vast majority of australians dont smoke.

putting 2 and 2 together, id suggest that banning smoking completely at clubs will be good for business as it will attract those who previously were too disgusted by the smoke. The number of people it alienates would be dwarfed by the number of people it attracts.
How many people do you know use other people smoking as a reason to not go out?

Maybe not the sole reason, but definately a factor for myself, Marvie, my sis and Obliveus - just to name a few....

Grey Son · Post by **Grey Son** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:54 pm

Direktor wrote:
mecka wrote:
sneaky hands wrote:its a fact that the vast majority of australians dont smoke.

putting 2 and 2 together, id suggest that banning smoking completely at clubs will be good for business as it will attract those who previously were too disgusted by the smoke. The number of people it alienates would be dwarfed by the number of people it attracts.
How many people do you know use other people smoking as a reason to not go out?
Maybe not the sole reason, but definately a factor for myself, Marvie, my sis and Obliveus - just to name a few....

My dad fuckin hates it....Wont go to many pubs unless he can sit outside.. He really does crack it when his clothes stink like smoke!!

Ag3nT[]0raNg3 · Post by **Ag3nT[]0raNg3** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:10 pm

my stupid asthmatic lungs dont like it.

i mainly hate the smell tho. fookin hate it.

Grey Son · Post by **Grey Son** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:35 pm

Ive noticed that crack doesn't smell as bad, maybe we could just swap!!

Flash · Post by **Flash** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:05 pm

You can't smoke in pubs/clubs in tasmania anymore and as a
consequence there are areas packed to the brim full of smokers. I can remember going to the smoking room and not being able to see someone from across the room cause of the amount of smoke!
But at least the pub smelt fine. couldnt even smell any B.O which was suprising!

Post by **fooishbar** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:20 pm

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/ ... 97753.html

Steve Bracks wrote:Premier Steve Bracks has promised to change Victoria's anti-smoking laws so that pubs and clubs are not forced to provide outdoor smoking areas in their venues.

more power to him.

PahMaLa · Post by **PahMaLa** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:45 pm

I'm all for it, be easier to quit, when I tried to quit a few months ago I was dreading going out. It was a challenge because everywhere I turned someone was lighting up. Drove me a bit nuts. I think it's a good idea.

shepherd · Post by **shepherd** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:47 pm

mecka wrote:
sneaky hands wrote:its a fact that the vast majority of australians dont smoke.

putting 2 and 2 together, id suggest that banning smoking completely at clubs will be good for business as it will attract those who previously were too disgusted by the smoke. The number of people it alienates would be dwarfed by the number of people it attracts.
How many people do you know use other people smoking as a reason to not go out?

smoky venues is a reason i don't go out - not the sole reason but it contributes. i used to smoke too - now can't stand it and the ventilation in some venues is pretty shabby.

universal sea · Post by **universal sea** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:11 pm

This was debated and argued and then more than readily accepted in Toronto over two years ago when we had our ban put in place. It's a good thing. The point of this is to help people quit smoking and clean up venues for people who like going out, but won't because of smoking. Drink sales have apparently not been affected.

It's good for the flow and energy of places with people coming and going, stretching their legs, moving around. Many venues aren't suitable for an outdoor smoking area, sure. Some will adapt, create creative patios, whatever.

It's quite incredible to go out and not have a smidget of smoke on clothes, breath, hair, etc, you can party for many hours and come out of the club full of natural energy, it's strange. Rochester, New York, was the first time I'd experienced this.

I quit smoking 6 1/2 years ago, until a couple of months ago when I bought a couple of packs and almost felt like a smoker again. The reasons: everybody rolls their ganj here with shitloads of tobacco, all the clubs are full of it, and they get passed to me a lot. Weakness, sure. Take out the club element and I'd probably be alright, thankfully I've quit again.

Yes to this law and remember, it doesn't matter if you smoke or not, you're still going to die.

menace · Post by **menace** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:45 am

i have felt the force of the smoking band in pubs club ect .. livin in glasgow
at first i reckon it was shite .. but after a couple of weeks i reckon it great and im all for it .even though i am still a smoker .

good points
u feel heaps better in the morning if u have been steamin in a club/pub the nite before Fact

no astrays there gross

bad points

a sweatie club :yuck:

with time .. you would love it

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:29 am

It's good to hear a lot of reformed smokers, and more the point - current smokers, in favour of this proposal.

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:03 pm

I'm a current smoker, but I'm totally for the ban in pubs and clubs. I hate having my clothes totally drenched in tobacco smoke/smell, funnily enough that doesn't happen at home or at work. Lot's of people smoking more than they normally would in an enclosed space = bad.

Liam_B · Post by **Liam_B** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:13 pm

so, when is the smoking ban coming into effect exactly here in melbourne? I will agree with a lot of what you guys have said above. I also notice my hang overs are no where near as bad the next day as well when i've been to smoke free clubs in new zealand

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:30 pm

1st of July 2007

Liam_B · Post by **Liam_B** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:41 pm

Cool. Not too far away then, seeing as they are starting to advertise christmas already i noticed today

DC · Post by DC » Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:27 am

I smoke....and I find I smoke the most while spinning records. So much so to the point where I can feel the cancer in my throat and lungs.

Im all for the ban. No smoke means less thinking of it.

I don't think there will be a long term effect on the clubs/bars. There are more non-smokers than smokers....right?

Dark Lord Piddle Bottom · Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:04 pm

FoundationStepper wrote:
interesting evidence from overseas is that introduction of smoking bans has not had any long term negative impacts on the licensed premises industry...

I love that quote, always raised however friends from New York say a number of small bars closed down because the people who like small intimate venues like we have here, chose to party at home where they could still drink and smoke!

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:40 pm

i spent weeks resarching the topic and couldnt find anything substantial to demonstrate that. However, I can totally believe its the case... would love to see examples...

NY has a really strict noise code which doesnt make many concessions for patron noise

mr lob · Post by **mr lob** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:15 am

I think the ban will work and should work. I only started smoking when I started djing, as I seemed to be in clubs and bars more often and even when I am not playing I'm listening to friends play etc I guess the passive smoke and the nervous energy drove me on.

Lately I've been feeling it in the chest and throat, especially after a big nite out.

I think a smoke free environment will be as some have said more healthy, and possibly less conducive to lighting up if you are a smoker.

Hopefully this will not affect those places like bunker and dirty secrets that will have real issues providing smoking areas.

ShiKung · Post by **ShiKung** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:27 pm

breaksRbest wrote:All of this bullshit can be solved with some adequate ventilation and exhaust fans

Thats would cost 4-5 times as much money to enforce than a complete ban and would drive alot of small places like bunker to close!

I would prefer this solution and to let people smoke (as a non-smoker) but its just unrealistic

cha_chaos · Post by **cha_chaos** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:53 pm

mecka wrote:
sneaky hands wrote:its a fact that the vast majority of australians dont smoke.

putting 2 and 2 together, id suggest that banning smoking completely at clubs will be good for business as it will attract those who previously were too disgusted by the smoke. The number of people it alienates would be dwarfed by the number of people it attracts.
How many people do you know use other people smoking as a reason to not go out?

1! *oh pick me! pick me!!!*

YAY! no more burning eyes, head spins, disgusting smells and damaging air! (yeah i know, general polution does that toooo

)

cant wait, i will definately be going out more

betson · Post by **betson** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:17 pm

Enforcing the ban doesn't really cost anything to the club/pub.

I do feel better when I've been working in a non-smoking venue but find myself wanting to duck out for a booner(smoke), bit of a pain in the ass seeing as the average mobile gig is about 4-5 hours.

Would there be big names (DJ's/groups) that wouldn't play if they couldn't smoke in the venue?

It is a good thing, we all know we should quit.

shepherd · Post by **shepherd** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:22 pm

Would there be big names (DJ's/groups) that wouldn't play if they couldn't smoke in the venue?

DJ ego is pretty mammoth generally, but I don't think it's that bad that they wouldn't play unless they were given an exemption to the laws of that city. If DJ X (country of Origin) couldn't go 3 hours without a lunger then they should consider their addiction to fags

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:24 pm

If youve flown over here to play you should be able to do without a ciggie for a good 8 hours at least!

Dark Lord Piddle Bottom · Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:24 pm

I'm ok coz now i've hit 30 I shouldn't be going out and when i do i can stand down the back and moan about the old days when we could get off our heads and smoke in the club!!

betson · Post by **betson** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:24 pm

yeah, thought so.
Was just wondering?

EDIT
What I wrote really didn't make much sense

a1studmuffin · Post by **a1studmuffin** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:45 pm

Hahaha... it's happening in London as well from July 1st. Several clubs (such as Fabric) are lucky enough to have a courtyard they can open up to the public, but some places like The End are a bit screwed - all underground, nowhere for patrons to go but the main entrance, and no room to build a courtyard. No idea what's going to happen there! I heard rumours they were going to relocate.

kronz · Post by **kronz** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:08 pm

my local pub is building a courtyear just to get around it
Big Ups

RINCE · Post by **RINCE** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:36 am

I remember smoking my last ciggie in Atomica in the good old days so I knew this day was gonna come along sometime and it's a good thing. The thing I'm really going to miss is the dancefloor doobie. I said goodbye at Break & Fierce.......gonna miss you guys

p.s apologies for all my blatancy over the last 10yrs

Lizkins · Post by **Lizkins** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:48 am

Hide Out cafe was my last restaurant ciggie, not sure where i will have this one, but i shall be somewhere pub like to smoke it up on 30th June

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:11 am

so, will we have to stop smoking at midnight on the 30th?

or do we get the whole last night?

mixtress · Post by **mixtress** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:17 am

Word Liz. Was watching some movie the other night where people were sitting around a dingey pub smoking and drinking beer and I had a whole host of nostalgic feelings of seedy days gone by. Must book time for myself to have one more good crawl through my favourite dives, sit back and watch the smoke waft through the sunlight.

Good question Deviant...I'll look it up.

mixtress · Post by **mixtress** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:43 am

Ok, from what I could find (pretty much nada), it seems to point to July 1st being the first day of the ban. June 30 sounds like the last day it'll be allowed and I assume that means til the close of business that day.

Post by **huge** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:47 am

Lizkins · Post by **Lizkins** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:55 am

i'll come and smoke in your bedroom Huge just for kicks. You place is like a bar anyways

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:57 am

what about revolver, who don't close 'til monday morning?

mixtress · Post by **mixtress** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:02 pm

Don't you work at a council or something?