the official console and PC nerdy thread!

Rob M · Post by **Rob M** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:42 pm

XBOX360 Elite hey ... but no major improvements

What the.

Stray · Post by **Stray** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:48 pm

Ok so it's official.

Microsoft Unveils Xbox 360 Elite

Redmond, Washingtonâ€”Microsoft Corp. today announced the upcoming availability of Xbox 360â„¢ Elite, a new model of the video game and entertainment system that includes a 120GB hard drive, a high-definition multimedia interface (HDMI) port, a high-definition cable, and a premium black finish for the console, wireless controller, and Xbox LiveÂ® headset.

Distinguished by its black finish and signature metallic detailing, Xbox 360 Elite will have an estimated retail price of $479.99 (U.S.), and comes packed with components and accessories for the ultimate high-definition entertainment experience.

saintberry · Post by **saintberry** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:09 pm

rad, fully didnt expect the hdd. they denied that for ages. looks sick

i want!

mecka · Post by **mecka** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:13 pm

omfg i fuckin told you guys!

finally the 360 i've always wanted to get ... now i dont have to buy a standard one and take it apart to vinyl dye it.

ArrBee · Post by **ArrBee** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:47 pm

It's weird...
I don't think the PS3 price is too bad considering what it offers, and compared to launch price of PS1 and PS2

Yes, it costs more. But I would argue that it is packing more in.

I don't recall stand alone DVD players costing $1000 when PS2 launched.
And I remember a friend paying $749NZD for a PS1.
In todays buying power thats got to be around $800AUD I reckon.

Sure the Xbox is cheaper, but compare what they can do. the PS3 should cost more than the xbox.

The big concern to me is lazy developers.
if there is not a big incentive to push the hardware envelope then historically only a few developers really use the hardware of a given system.
It is using the differences between PS3 and xbox that will show the PS3 as a better machine.
I understand that business models and cross platform release schedules often dont allow that to happen though.

Post by **fooishbar** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:11 pm

ArrBee wrote:The big concern to me is lazy developers.
if there is not a big incentive to push the hardware envelope then historically only a few developers really use the hardware of a given system.
It is using the differences between PS3 and xbox that will show the PS3 as a better machine.
I understand that business models and cross platform release schedules often dont allow that to happen though.

i wouldn't say 'lazy'. as you can see with the progression of tities, it takes a while to get used to new platforms. the existing techniques you use may be hella slow, and maybe it's only while working on one game that you work out what you need to do instead, and you use that in the next game. that sort of thing.

but cell is a wildly different architecture, not just to ps2, but to basically anything out there. game programmers don't really have examples programming for this kind of whole-system parallelism. no-one can hire expert cell developers, because there aren't any outside of sony. so it'll take a while for everyone to develop familiarity with cell and start pushing the boundaries of its capabilities. ibm and sony knew this when they developed the platform, so it's got to be a long-term investment in terms of waiting for games that really make it look good.

Stray · Post by **Stray** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:56 pm

ArrBee wrote:It's weird...
I don't think the PS3 price is too bad considering what it offers, and compared to launch price of PS1 and PS2

Yes, it costs more. But I would argue that it is packing more in.

I don't recall stand alone DVD players costing $1000 when PS2 launched.
And I remember a friend paying $749NZD for a PS1.
In todays buying power thats got to be around $800AUD I reckon.

Sure the Xbox is cheaper, but compare what they can do. the PS3 should cost more than the xbox.

The big concern to me is lazy developers.
if there is not a big incentive to push the hardware envelope then historically only a few developers really use the hardware of a given system.
It is using the differences between PS3 and xbox that will show the PS3 as a better machine.
I understand that business models and cross platform release schedules often dont allow that to happen though.

You do get more with the ps3.. but who wants it?
I don't want to pay for something I don't need.
There is hardly any blu-ray movies available at the moment and for games they might as well be dvd's.
They store more.. but what's the point when their data transfer rate isn't much better than a dvd??
No developer is going to use that extra space.
The only way to do that is to make games longer or throw in heaps of video footage. Games in general are getting shorter.
Quality over quantity.
Foo is right about the cell tech.. our programmers are struggling.
Things that are quite simple to achieve on the 360 (because they've done it before on the xbox) are really difficult to do on a ps3.
Almost all of the cross platfrom titles at the moment are better on the 360.

The ps3 won't start showing what it can really do for a couple of years.
But even then I don't think it will be as good as people hope.

Post by **huge** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:33 am

i want one!

mecka · Post by **mecka** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:12 am

bought stalker tonite. been chronically addicted to Supreme Commander. 1500 units on one map? yes please

saintberry · Post by **saintberry** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:58 am

PS3 and 360 both graphically have strengths and weaknesses. I think its pretty subjective as to what is really better in that respect.

For instance I don't think the PS3 will ever get better lighting effects than the 360, yet you can see the PS3 has more grunt with environmental stuff like trees.

For me its down to games. When the PS3 picks gets some better titles I will find it hard not to buy one. Id say in about a years time.

It was the same with the 360 for me. I got mine late last year, before then there was nothing that really drew me to it.

BluRay is shit, its too expensive to produce and not needed for the current generation of displays. Another one of Sony's random proprietary format pushes. HDDVD has already one the battle... they have Porn producers on their side now.

kronz · Post by **kronz** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:20 am

saintberry wrote: HDDVD has already one the battle... they have Porn producers on their side now.

WHo needs microsoft or sony when you have porn producers

saintberry · Post by **saintberry** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:57 am

$14 billion annually in the US. They shaped the interweb, they got rid of Betamax and the same fate will fall on Blu-ray unless Sony make it more accessible to early adopters of the tech.

Stray · Post by **Stray** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:26 am

Yeah, although Sony stated that porn was not going to be allowed to be produced on blu-ray. Trying to look like they are taking the high moral ground.
But it seems to me they were just pre-empting the porn industry as they knew they weren't going to support it.

Also, people seem to think it's "sony's" blu-ray.. when in fact they only make up a small percentage of the board.

Board of Directors

Apple, Inc.
Dell
HP
Hitachi
LG
Mitsubishi Electric
Panasonic
Pioneer
Philips
Samsung
Sharp
Sony
Sun Microsystems
TDK
Thomson
Twentieth Century Fox
Walt Disney
Warner Bros.

Contributors

Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
Almedio Inc.
Alticast
Aplix Corporation
ArcSoft, Inc.
Atmel Corporation
AudioDev AB
Broadcom Corporation
Canon Inc.
CMC Magnetics Corporation
Coding Technologies GmbH
Cryptography Research Inc.
CyberLink Corp.
DATARIUS Technologies GmbH
Daxon Technology Inc.
DCA Inc.
Deluxe Media Services Inc.
Dolby Laboratories Inc.
DTS, Inc.
Esmertec
ESS Technology Inc.
FUJIFILM Corporation
Fujitsu Ltd.
Gibson Guitar Corp.
Imation Corp.
InterVideo Inc.
Kenwood Corporation
Lionsgate Entertainment
LITE-ON IT Corporation
LSI Logic
MediaTek Inc.
Meridian Audio Ltd.
Mitsubishi Kagaku Media Co.Ltd.
Mitsui Chemicals Inc.
Moser Baer India Limited
NEC Electronics Corporation
Nero
Paramount Pictures Corporation
Pixela Corporation
Prodisc Technology Inc.
Pulstec Industrial Co., Ltd.
Ricoh Co., Ltd.
Ritek Corporation
ShibaSoku Co. Ltd.
Sigma Designs Inc.
Sonic Solutions
Sonopress
Sony BMG Music Entertainment
ST Microelectronics
Sunext
Taiyo Yuden Co., Ltd.,
Victor Company of Japan, Ltd.
Visionare Corporation
Zentek Technology Japan, Inc.
ZOOtech Ltd.
Zoran Corporation

Members

Adobe Systems
Alpine Electronics Inc.
Arima Devices Corporation
ashampoo GmbH & Co. KG
Bandai Visual Co. Ltd.
BASF AG
Basler Vision Technologies
BenQ Corporation
B.H.A. Corporation
Bose Corporation
B&W Group
The Cannery
Cheertek Inc.
Cinram Manufacturing Inc.
CustomFlix Labs, Inc.
Custom Technology Inc.
D&M holdings, Inc.
Daewoo Electronics Corporation
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Expert Magnetics Corp.
Fujitsu Ten Ltd.
Funai Electric Co., Ltd.
GalleryPlayer Media Networks
Gear Software
Global Machinery Co., Ltd.
Hie Electronics, Inc.
Hoei Sangyo Co., Ltd
Horizon Semiconductor.
IMAGICA Corp.
INFODISC Technology Co., Ltd.
Infomedia Inc.
Intersil Corporation
Iwatsu Test Instruments
Kadokawa Holdings Inc.
Kaleidescape, Inc.
Kitano Co., Ltd.
Konica Minolta Opto Inc.
Lauda Co. Ltd.
Lead Data Inc.
LEADER ELECTRONICS CORP
Lenovo
Linn Products Ltd.
LINTEC Corporation
M2 Engineering AB
MainConcept AG
Mitsumi Electric Co., Ltd.
Must Technology Co., Ltd.
MX Entertainment
Netflix Inc.
Newtech Infosystems Inc.
NexWave Solutions
Nichia Corporation
Nikkatsu Corporation
NTT Electronics Corporation
nVidia Corporation
OC Oerlikon Balzer AG
Omnibus Japan Inc.
Onkyo Corporation
Online Media Technologies Ltd.
Ono Sokki Co., Ltd.
OPT Corporation
Optodisc Technology Corporation
Origin Electric Co., Ltd.
Osmosys SA
Pinnacle Systems
Plannet Associates
PoINT Software & Systems GmbH
Pony Canyon Enterprise
PowerFile
Primera Technology, Inc.
Q-Tek, Inc.
Quanta Storage Inc.
Realtek Semiconductor Corp.
Rimage Corporation
Sanyo Electric Co., Ltd.
Dr. Schwab Inspection Technology GmbH
Shinano Kenshi Co. Ltd.
Singulus Technologies
STEAG ETA-OPTIK GmbH
Targray Technology International Inc.
TEAC Corporation
Teijin Chemicals Ltd.
Texas Instruments, Inc.
THX Ltd.
Toei Video Company Ltd.
Toho Company, Ltd.
Toppan Printing Co., Ltd.
TOPTICA Photonics AG
Trailer Park
UmeDisc Ltd.
Vivendi Universal Games
Yamaha Corporation
Yokogawa Electric Corporation
1K Studios, LLC

Post by **fooishbar** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:29 am

Stray wrote:Also, people seem to think it's "sony's" blu-ray.. when in fact they only make up a small percentage of the board.

well, they did originate the tech, and have certainly been pushing it hardest. plus, every decision they've made (impossible to produce, an enormous incompatible leap forward from current formats albeit solving a capacity problem, incredibly expensive and highly unavailable home playback kit, no real wide industry acceptance, drm features which make it a pain in the arse, refusal to cheaply license it to let it become a commodity) has 'sony proprietary format' stamped all over it, as saintberry said.

looking at you, beta/minidisc/memorystick ...

Post by **huge** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:31 am

mecka wrote:bought stalker tonite. been chronically addicted to Supreme Commander. 1500 units on one map? yes please

can u pls post specs of ur rig?

saintberry · Post by **saintberry** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:40 am

Blue laser technology was first developed by Sony. A loooong time ago. I remember reading about it in New Scientist in about 98'.

Some Japanese researcher came up with the idea and pimped it to Sony.

True though... Blu-ray is an industry product. Just as HDDVD is.

Stray · Post by **Stray** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:23 pm

This is what I wanted to point out about the blu-ray compared to the dvd drive in the 360 -

"Admittedly, Blu-Ray looks dicey from several non-capacity angles. Blu-Ray movies require a 1.5x Blu-Ray drive, or 54Mbits/second. Sony announced that PS3 uses a 2x BD drive, which is 72Mbits/second or 9MB/second. The Xbox 360 uses a 12x DVD, which should give it about 16MB/second. That is significantly faster for games and will result in shorter load times. And that 12x DVD drive should be a whole lot cheaper. (Note that the PS3 drive will do 8x DVD, and even that is faster than 2x BD.)"

ArrBee · Post by **ArrBee** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:54 pm

Stray wrote:This is what I wanted to point out about the blu-ray compared to the dvd drive in the 360 -

"Admittedly, Blu-Ray looks dicey from several non-capacity angles. Blu-Ray movies require a 1.5x Blu-Ray drive, or 54Mbits/second. Sony announced that PS3 uses a 2x BD drive, which is 72Mbits/second or 9MB/second. The Xbox 360 uses a 12x DVD, which should give it about 16MB/second. That is significantly faster for games and will result in shorter load times. And that 12x DVD drive should be a whole lot cheaper. (Note that the PS3 drive will do 8x DVD, and even that is faster than 2x BD.)"

But because every PS3 has a hard drive, developers can use a mixture of HDD and BlueRay to load or stream content. Some have done it to a degree where after the initial load there are NO load times. Or so I have read.

I agree the BlueRay is not required in the games machine of *today* and only really serves to increase the price. (or make the PS3 attractive to ppl who are in the market for a stand alone blueray player). but there are a couple of small advantages now. like multiple versions/languages on the one disk.

The comments about DRM on BlueRay concern me though

mecka · Post by **mecka** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:44 am

huge wrote:
mecka wrote:bought stalker tonite. been chronically addicted to Supreme Commander. 1500 units on one map? yes please
can u pls post specs of ur rig?

Core 2 Duo E6600 @ 3.4ghz (on air cooling!)
Thermalright Ultra-120 HSF
Asus P5W-DH Deluxe motherboard
2GB PC6400 DDR2
512mb 7950GT (soon to be an 8800GTX)
320gb 7200.10 Seagate HDD

managed to get up close to the 1500 unit cap i'd set myself against a Supreme AI (i.e 750 units a side) and was running @ 25fps. When I attacked though... my puter went to 2fps for 5 minutes until every enemy unit had died.

Stray · Post by **Stray** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:58 am

Grand Theft Auto IV

Ooh.. so pretty. I want to marry it.

Post by **lynt** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:06 pm

Can't believe I got hyped for that 20 second teaser. GIVE ME MORE!@$!!@%

Stray · Post by **Stray** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:09 pm

lynt wrote:Can't believe I got hyped for that 20 second teaser. GIVE ME MORE!@$!!@%

I know.. but that teaser only just came out today.. we'll have to wait for
anything more substantial.

Still... looks sweet. Awesome lighting and shadows... day/night cycles.
New York!

Plus you get to play a russian immigrant instead of the usual american.

Post by **lynt** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:13 pm

I was thinking yesterday - it would be mad that once you finish all the GTA missions, that you can hook up to the internet and download more from Rockstar and play forever.

saintberry · Post by **saintberry** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:15 pm

Meh... more of the same. Graphics do look amazing though. But they don't solely make a game.

Stray · Post by **Stray** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:21 pm

saintberry wrote:Meh... more of the same. Graphics do look amazing though. But they don't solely make a game.

True. But it does look pretty.

I can't find much else in the way of info.. but then they still have around 7 months of production to go.

Post by **lynt** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:35 pm

Please make for download missions win.

saintberry · Post by **saintberry** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:12 pm

Corr Blimey... Colin McRae: DIRT

I want... now! Track down the HD trailer if you can. Looks amazing.

EDIT: better copy here: ftp://downloads.codemasters.com/video/d ... pal_qt.zip

nic · Post by **nic** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:23 pm

GTA IV looks excellent.

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:44 pm

Bought an Xbox360 this week with Gears Of War, Project Gotham Racing 3 and Condemned. GOW is fucking AWESOME. Haven't played condemned yet, but PGR3 is wicked to.

Really looking forward to:

- Mass Effect (DROOL!)
- Bioshock (Looks weird but rad)
- GTA4 (Who isn't?)
- Halo 3 (didn't like H2, but I have hope)

Stray · Post by **Stray** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:40 am

JB has a bunch of launch titles, including PGR3 for $35 at the moment.

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:48 am

Stray wrote:JB has a bunch of launch titles, including PGR3 for $35 at the moment.

That's where I got em! $35 for PGR3 and $42 for Condemned. Got GOW with the console.

Stray · Post by **Stray** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:13 pm

Hardy wrote:
Stray wrote:JB has a bunch of launch titles, including PGR3 for $35 at the moment.

That's where I got em! $35 for PGR3 and $42 for Condemned. Got GOW with the console.

Yeah the GOW Pack is a great deal.

Post by **system** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:21 pm

system wrote:Bring on Paper Mario & Super Mario Galaxy.

Post by **lynt** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:53 am

Guitar Hero 2 rules!

Stray · Post by **Stray** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:12 pm

Yeah I'm going to buy it at lunch time so I can rock out all weekend!

I assume you mean the 360 version?? It came out a couple of days ago.

Post by **lynt** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:24 pm

Yep, we have it at work. I rocked out. 75%!

Stray · Post by **Stray** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:30 pm

I wanna play war pigs.. love that song

Stray · Post by **Stray** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:33 pm

Stray wrote:Yeah I'm going to buy it at lunch time so I can rock out all weekend!

Yay! Purchased

$127 from JB

Post by **huge** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:43 pm

how much are the 360's at jb at the mo??

ArrBee · Post by **ArrBee** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:49 pm

Are modchips available for 360 yet?

What connectivitty is do-able out of the box? I heard you could setup network shares if you have XPMC on your PC but not XP Pro.

What about PS3? does that have LAN connectivity?

I think the ability to play vids, music etc from my LAN will be the biggest factor for me. Poor old xbox-1 can't handle the HD avis with AC3.

ArrBee · Post by **ArrBee** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:51 pm

huge wrote:how much are the 360's at jb at the mo??

I think it was $688 including some games.

aspekt · Post by **aspekt** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:51 pm

quad-core macpros. shitchair!

what's the go with wii modchips?

Post by **huge** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:59 pm

wii chips to allow gamecube games only so far. no wii games afaik

aspekt · Post by **aspekt** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:03 pm

so how come there are heaps of games on torrent sites?

Post by **huge** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:13 pm

just rips innit?

aspekt · Post by **aspekt** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:23 pm

i guess so. can you do anything with them?

Rob M · Post by **Rob M** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:53 pm

huge wrote:how much are the 360's at jb at the mo??

Core package is $399 at K-Mart for this easter weekend only. Goto Toys'r'us and get your 20gb hard drive add-on for $79.

decent deal, if you don't mind corded controller.

Scholtzy · Post by **Scholtzy** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:09 pm

My god having a 360 would be awesome.

Think I want one

Stray · Post by **Stray** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:15 pm

Get one.

I'm going to go and play guitar hero II.

Rock on.

mecka · Post by **mecka** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:33 am

red vs blue will be wrapping up after its 100th episode.

http://rvb.roosterteeth.com/forum/viewT ... id=2205248