Second Life

Post by **huge** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:07 pm

notwithstanding is a cool word.

yenks · Post by **yenks** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:07 pm

LuKo wrote:its really really farkin sad

get music software and make tunes , paint, do something

go for a jog, get healthy, lose weight

used to play alot of computer games. such a waist of time. i realise now.

now i write tunes. The feeling of accomplishment you get from producing and creating your own artistic works can never be replicated by playing games n shit online.

Didnt really realise this or have the option available to me. Games just seemed like a way to cure boredom. But i can see why so many people get hooked into these online virtual realities.

And when i do play games i like to be able to finish them and say "Yes ive clocked it" but games like world of warcraft never allow this to happen and become a drug/addiction where you always have to do something else, get the next item, blah blah.

Stray · Post by **Stray** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:08 pm

C.I.A. wrote:
huge wrote:dr phil is blaming puter games for the virginia tech shooting. lol.

If Dr Phil is correct we should be worrying about people like Mecka and Stray....

oh...

wait...

Dr Phil will be taken care of shortly

Hatsudai · Post by **Hatsudai** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:18 pm

mrj wrote: recent online advances notwithstanding, computer games are by and large played by one person against the computer

In theory this is no different. If, lets say in 10 years A.I develops to a point that a computer can think like a human being (or close enough) What will be the difference between playing someone online and playing against a computer which has the same ability to think as a human?

The only difference is that now computers arent that smart. In theory I think its the same thing (video game interaction and Second Life Interaction ESPECIALLY if you never meet the second life partner in real life- They might aswell be a smart computer for all the user knows.

mrj wrote: People having virtual marriages, living in virtual houses, and striking up deep friendships with people they haven't met

Havent met in real life that is. Why is meeting someone face to face so important to get to know them. Can you express thoughts and feelings the same way to someone in just words ( of course body language and touch are fairly important communication tools but in developing a friend/ aquaintance relationship not necasarilly needed).

mrj wrote: IMO its all real world, its just that the virtual world is another tool by which you can communicate. I think you will find that people who get addicted to these games and spend all their spare time on them probably have troubles with communication in real life. It might be confidence, actual speech problems, or maybe they are just an asshole and no one likes them.

Agreed 100%

Hatsudai · Post by **Hatsudai** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:20 pm

Agree With what Sash said on the first page (he wrote it faster than me

mrj · Post by **mrj** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:32 pm

system wrote:
mrj wrote:
Hatsudai wrote: Yes!

I for one am not really into this second life bizzle but whats the difference between using this site and playing Grand Theft Auto or any other game for that matter.

Both are immersive interactive environments in which the user escapes from thier day to day reality when they engage in these environments.

Why are video games pretty widely accepted when these forms of electronic interaction are seen as sad?

I don't agree.

recent online advances notwithstanding, computer games are by and large played by one person against the computer, and if there are multple players then they all tend to be in the same room together (please note I said recent online advances notwithstanding so don't come back at me on the fact that they need not be in the same room, thats a recent phenonon IMO and one the larger public wouldn't be gaming at this level yet - I may be wrong)

I think the reason people decry these games is the relationship portion (which I don't believe is evident in most traditional video games). People having virtual marriages, living in virtual houses, and striking up deep friendships with people they haven't met for most people is an idea that is forgein, frightening, and they would say "sad". Most people, given the choice, would prefer to have a relationship in real life, rather than in a virtual world. I'm not subscribing to these points of view, merley stating that some people may have them.

I think most people are opposed to the extreme end of this scale, where people are spending more time on these "virtual" relationships, rather than ones built in the real world. IMO its all real world, its just that the virtual world is another tool by which you can communicate. I think you will find that people who get addicted to these games and spend all their spare time on them probably have troubles with communication in real life. It might be confidence, actual speech problems, or maybe they are just an asshole and no one likes them.

The merits of whether its "sad" or not doesn't bother me. Its not part of my world so I don't care, live and let live. But, I don't think you can say that these games are the same as video games the way we have thought of them in the past.
while I admire the verbosity of the retort, I fail to see the difference between a human or a computer controlled character in a modern video game. to me, this is just all falls under the generic anorak wearing label - just updated for the zeitgeist. the information exchange in games/VRs/etc is just more immediate, so the length of immersion/engagement is artificially prolonged.

I think there is a difference and will reiterate my point as evidently I might have stumbled in the explaining the first time.

The difference is relationships

The difference with these online games is that you are playing against and with real people. The character you are dealing with is just as complex as you. They have logic. They have a sense of humour. They are unpredictable. They can be tired, or not concentrating. etc etc. The same cannot be said of traditional video games.

This introduces all the facets of personal relationships into these games. You have friends. You have enemies. You have that person crop up who you see conincidentally from time to time and have never met. This is the element that I think sets these games apart, and this is the element that detractors of these games and the people who play them focus on as a negative. These people would argue that relationships that exist solely in computers, be they games or indeed forums, or not valid. Naturally I don't subscribe to this point of view, but I don't think its completley invalid either. I believe that whilst you can interact on the internet, its certainly no substitute for real life interaction. I don't think any of us believe that.

But, Im not going to argue the merits of virtual vs real life relationships. I'm simply saying that the realtionship facet of online gaming is what makes it different from traditional video games.

almax · Post by **almax** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:14 pm

Hatsudai wrote:
mrj wrote: People having virtual marriages, living in virtual houses, and striking up deep friendships with people they haven't met
Havent met in real life that is. Why is meeting someone face to face so important to get to know them. Can you express thoughts and feelings the same way to someone in just words ( of course body language and touch are fairly important communication tools but in developing a friend/ aquaintance relationship not necasarilly needed).

well yeah, but you cant stare at their tits

but seriously, this is a valid point, meeting someone online can lead to finding your soulmate in terms of personality, but in RL will you have that spark, that chemistry that makes a relationship so special? i doubt it

aspekt · Post by **aspekt** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:28 pm

mrj wrote: ...I believe that whilst you can interact on the internet, its certainly no substitute for real life interaction. I don't think any of us believe that...

Because getting off chops and talking shit with randoms you'll never see again is so much more meaningful?

I'm not sure if you're saying that there needs to be a balance or whether by and large, real world interaction is more meaningful?

mrj · Post by **mrj** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:36 pm

aspekt wrote:
mrj wrote: ...I believe that whilst you can interact on the internet, its certainly no substitute for real life interaction. I don't think any of us believe that...
Because getting off chops and talking shit with randoms you'll never see again is so much more meaningful?

I'm not sure if you're saying that there needs to be a balance or whether by and large, real world interaction is more meaningful?

Hmmmmm I said in my first post that on this that I don't really care either way. The online gaming phenomenon doesn't really touch my life in any way, so I say live and let live.

However, I do have an opinon. I'm not saying that there are not elements to these that aren't fun. And I do believe you can meet people etc via these forms of communication, as you can on forums.

But there does need to be balance. Spending all your time on online gaming I would consider unhealthy, much the same as I would spending all your time on internet forums. Nothing can replace real world relationships. Parts of it can be mimicked, even made better (for example I think forums are great for arguing because people get a chance to edit and develop their opinions, its real time essay writing!!) but it can't match real life on everything. I think its ludicrous to believe that it can, or even come close. I'm not saying there are not elements that work, and that its not a valid means of communicating, I'm just saying it shouldn't be the only one.

mrj · Post by **mrj** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:40 pm

aspekt wrote:
mrj wrote: ...I believe that whilst you can interact on the internet, its certainly no substitute for real life interaction. I don't think any of us believe that...
Because getting off chops and talking shit with randoms you'll never see again is so much more meaningful?

By the way I never said that, or even came close, its just an example plucked from nowhere.

I was referring to real life day to day interaction on a normal level.

I would say the same of munted conversations as I would of gaming, or internet forums. Fun in small doses, but you need to remember its place and not let it control your life!

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:42 pm

OT: hey J, is your sig a dubstep piss-take?

I like it.

Post by **lynt** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:43 pm

mrj wrote:
aspekt wrote:
mrj wrote: ...I believe that whilst you can interact on the internet, its certainly no substitute for real life interaction. I don't think any of us believe that...
Because getting off chops and talking shit with randoms you'll never see again is so much more meaningful?
By the way I never said that, or even came close, its just an example plucked from nowhere.

I was referring to real life day to day interaction on a normal level.

I would say the same of munted conversations as I would of gaming, or internet forums. Fun in small doses, but you need to remember its place and not let it control your life!

So true. Though, some people are socially retarted (even more so now-a-days) and can only communitate virtually. What the hell.

PahMaLa · Post by **PahMaLa** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:54 pm

deviant wrote:that doco was off the hook

the gold coin farms in china were alarming to say the least. People play WoW as a job, they live at these places and get paid $4000 per month to play 12hours of WoW per day. They then on sell the gold these kids generate to rich khunts in the USA and Europe for $10 per 250 coins.... some of these chinese kids are generating like 30-40 million coins per day.....

When I heard the rediculous amounts of money these people can make, it got me wondering to be honest. Far, let me sit in front of the computer, do fuck all and earn shit loads!

quick · Post by **quick** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:58 pm

aspekt wrote: Using dating websites is becoming pretty normal/mainstream these days and is no longer just the realm of desperate perverts. It's probably a far more honest way of meeting someone than trying to get them drunk at a club.

true, so whats your RSVP login?

aspekt · Post by **aspekt** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:03 pm

quick wrote:
aspekt wrote: Using dating websites is becoming pretty normal/mainstream these days and is no longer just the realm of desperate perverts. It's probably a far more honest way of meeting someone than trying to get them drunk at a club.
true, so whats your RSVP login?

lol, is that one of your pickup lines?

quick · Post by **quick** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:30 pm

aspekt wrote:
quick wrote:
aspekt wrote: Using dating websites is becoming pretty normal/mainstream these days and is no longer just the realm of desperate perverts. It's probably a far more honest way of meeting someone than trying to get them drunk at a club.
true, so whats your RSVP login?
lol, is that one of your pickup lines?

no my favorite pick up line is "don't make me break the law"

Post by **fooishbar** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:53 am

mecka wrote:i find it ironic that you choose to tell people to be creative with music software and then proceed to hang shit on people who make money from software.

making music isn't sad.
forming relationships through the intertubes or whatever isn't sad.
using the intertron as a substitute for actual personal relationships, and having all your interactions through that ... now that's sad.

mecka · Post by **mecka** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:08 am

fooishbar wrote: using the intertron as a substitute for actual personal relationships, and having all your interactions through that ... now that's sad.

You missed my point there entirely fooish. I was pointing out the fact that making virtual clothes to sell online is not too far off from making music to sell or show off to other people.

but.. to the lasts sentence of your reply.

Aren't there people here who know each other solely from this website and have never met/never will meet in real life?

Or are you talking about ALL social interactions? Because i'm fairly certain that the people who are like that are still a fairly tiny minority.

As far as I'm concerned, the world is speeding towards a point where face to face social interaction is not going to be nearly as important a factor as it is to us today. The issue at hand here is that most of you seem to be a little alienated or put off by the idea.

mecka · Post by **mecka** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:13 am

huge wrote:dr phil is blaming puter games for the virginia tech shooting. lol.

doctor phil can get fucked.

computer games don't kill people, delusional lunatics with weapons kill people.

Post by **fooishbar** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:22 am

mecka wrote:
fooishbar wrote:using the intertron as a substitute for actual personal relationships, and having all your interactions through that ... now that's sad.
You missed my point there entirely fooish. I was pointing out the fact that making virtual clothes to sell online is not too far off from making music to sell or show off to other people.

but.. to the lasts sentence of your reply.

Aren't there people here who know each other solely from this website and have never met/never will meet in real life?

Or are you talking about ALL social interactions? Because i'm fairly certain that the people who are like that are still a fairly tiny minority.

As far as I'm concerned, the world is speeding towards a point where face to face social interaction is not going to be nearly as important a factor as it is to us today. The issue at hand here is that most of you seem to be a little alienated or put off by the idea.

welll, bearing in mind that my last job was offered me over email, and i didn't meet any of my co-workers (except jeff and thom who i had met beforehand, and had originally met online anyway) until three or four months after i started, and do basically all my work online ...

i'm not averse to online interaction, or online relationships. what i don't like is people who have the _option_, and always communicate online. like a particular couple i knew who used to sit at adjacent desks playing wow, and talk to each other over aim. i mean, ffs.

second life seems to be aimed at taking away a lot of the incentive to meet irl (why would you go to miss l's for coffee when you can have a virtual coffee at miss l's in second life, and talk to j there?). and that's what sucks, imo.

(and yes, there are some people on here i haven't met at all. some i haven't seen in 3 months and won't see for a few yet. some i haven't seen in almost two years. life's tough.)

mixtress · Post by **mixtress** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:49 am

mecka wrote:As far as I'm concerned, the world is speeding towards a point where face to face social interaction is not going to be nearly as important a factor as it is to us today. The issue at hand here is that most of you seem to be a little alienated or put off by the idea.

Aren't you?? That thought saddens the shit outta me. The lack of the sensual (touch, smell, taste etc) would drive me slowly insane.

Post by **lynt** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:52 am

The Mixtress wrote:
mecka wrote:As far as I'm concerned, the world is speeding towards a point where face to face social interaction is not going to be nearly as important a factor as it is to us today. The issue at hand here is that most of you seem to be a little alienated or put off by the idea.
Aren't you?? That thought saddens the shit outta me. The lack of the sensual (touch, smell, taste etc) would drive me slowly insane.

Like I said... who needs the touch, smell, taste senses of interaction when you have porn. Porn porn porn porn porn. Play WOW all day, have a wank, then go to bed. Seriously, all bases covered.

Internet for LIFE.

gnat · Post by **gnat** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:20 am

oh what a lovely concept karlos

and philosophical too

mixtress · Post by **mixtress** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:35 am

The internet rocks, no question. I'm on it all day and every day. It has it's place, but it's not a replacement.

mixtress · Post by **mixtress** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:47 am

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21 ... 02,00.html

mecka · Post by **mecka** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:20 pm

The Mixtress wrote:
mecka wrote:As far as I'm concerned, the world is speeding towards a point where face to face social interaction is not going to be nearly as important a factor as it is to us today. The issue at hand here is that most of you seem to be a little alienated or put off by the idea.
Aren't you?? That thought saddens the shit outta me. The lack of the sensual (touch, smell, taste etc) would drive me slowly insane.

Why would i be alienated or put off by it? The future is something to be excited about not scared of. Im pretty confident this is the way things are moving. And if you bothered to read into my post at all I'm talking about face to face social interaction not a complete turning over of the senses to the virtual realm.

lynt wrote:Like I said... who needs the touch, smell, taste senses of interaction when you have porn. Porn porn porn porn porn. Play WOW all day, have a wank, then go to bed. Seriously, all bases covered.

Internet for LIFE.

I wouldve expected a more ... appropriate comment from a mod. Oh yeah you posted goat.se over in another thread.

btw WoW = aids.

Post by **fooishbar** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:32 pm

mecka wrote:Why would i be alienated or put off by it? The future is something to be excited about not scared of. Im pretty confident this is the way things are moving. And if you bothered to read into my post at all I'm talking about face to face social interaction not a complete turning over of the senses to the virtual realm.

yes, and the future is soylent green. not all progress is necessarily good. of course, not all progress is necessarily bad. either extreme is stupid.

mecka wrote:I wouldve expected a more ... appropriate comment from a mod. Oh yeah you posted goat.se over in another thread.

read the thread again ...

mecka wrote:btw WoW = aids.

on this we agree.

mecka · Post by **mecka** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:33 pm

fooishbar wrote:
mecka wrote:I wouldve expected a more ... appropriate comment from a mod. Oh yeah you posted goat.se over in another thread.
read the thread again ...

lol foo... i'm well aware of how that all works, just taking the piss.

mecka · Post by **mecka** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:36 pm

For the record, I'm fairly certain people here have heard about others that form relationships and live vicariously through Second Life and automatically assumed they've turned their own lives completely over to playing the damn game/interacting with the virtual world.

Either way, its all coming across as a gross overreaction.

Post by **huge** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:49 pm

i dont think playing computer games a lot is sad at all. as far as i can see here, its something you cant quite understand. as has been said here already, some people just dont like to interact face to face. that is their problem, maybe it isnt even a problem.

it makes them happy, leave them alone.

i met all you bastards on the internets.

Post by **huge** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:50 pm

oh yeah, there is nothing wrong with porn either!!

Post by **lynt** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:51 pm

mecka wrote:
lynt wrote:Like I said... who needs the touch, smell, taste senses of interaction when you have porn. Porn porn porn porn porn. Play WOW all day, have a wank, then go to bed. Seriously, all bases covered.

Internet for LIFE.
I wouldve expected a more ... appropriate comment from a mod. Oh yeah you posted goat.se over in another thread.

btw WoW = aids.

Hey, I'm a mod with an opinion, isn't freedom of speech what you cry for everytime we lock a thread?

Post by **breaksRbest** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:57 pm

I haven't seen this Second Life.

Can your 2nd life sit and post on MB all day too?

Post by **huge** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:13 pm

mrj · Post by **mrj** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:20 pm

breaksRbest wrote:I haven't seen this Second Life.

Can your 2nd life sit and post on MB all day too?

farken LOL brb

nic · Post by **nic** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:25 pm

lol he is dead and sum 1 says:

'did he drop and good loot'

Luka · Post by **Luka** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:26 pm

the world isnt going to end up like the matrix, ie second life, this is not a representation of the future. i think soylent green is more like it.

Stray · Post by **Stray** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:31 pm

Why can't people understand that second life is just a more advanced version of a web browser??

nic · Post by **nic** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:35 pm

but you can sell 10 polygon dresses for 15 usd in second life?

im frankly surprised you arent making a range of summer frocks in 3d stray. Big $$$

Stray · Post by **Stray** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:41 pm

I can sell 3d items on a webpage too.
It's just doing the same things you can do via the web but in a 3d environment. Tell me it's different.

Post by **lynt** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:35 pm

Stray wrote:I can sell 3d items on a webpage too.
It's just doing the same things you can do via the web but in a 3d environment. Tell me it's different.

It's very different!

If I buy a 3D jacket on SecondLife, I can wear it in my SecondLife.

If I buy a 3D jacket on the web, what can I do? Blog it?

Stray · Post by **Stray** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:55 pm

you forgot the

shepherd · Post by **shepherd** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:58 pm

Second Life to me makes no sense - it's like Habbo for nerdy adults.

Post by **lynt** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:00 pm

Stray wrote:you forgot the

I sold it and bought a power up.

almax · Post by **almax** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:13 pm

A little boy goes to his father and asks "Daddy, how was I born?"
The father answers: "Well son, I guess one day you will need to find out anyway!
Your Mum and I first got together in a chat room on Yahoo. Then I set up a date via e-mail with your Mum and we met at a cyber-cafe.
We sneaked into a secluded room, where your mother agreed to a download from my hard drive.
As soon as I was ready to upload, we discovered that neither one of us had used a firewall, and since it was too late to hit the delete button, nine months later a little Pop-Up appeared that said:

YOU GOT MALE

aspekt · Post by **aspekt** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:24 pm

almax wrote:A little boy goes to his father and asks "Daddy, how was I born?"
The father answers: "Well son, I guess one day you will need to find out anyway!
Your Mum and I first got together in a chat room on Yahoo. Then I set up a date via e-mail with your Mum and we met at a cyber-cafe.
We sneaked into a secluded room, where your mother agreed to a download from my hard drive.
As soon as I was ready to upload, we discovered that neither one of us had used a firewall, and since it was too late to hit the delete button, nine months later a little Pop-Up appeared that said:

YOU GOT MALE

\o/

ArrBee · Post by **ArrBee** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:50 pm

The Mixtress wrote:The internet rocks, no question. I'm on it all day and every day. It has it's place, but it's not a replacement.

how do you find the time to be on the net "all day every day" and not have it replace anything?
Were you doing nothing at all previously?

I'd be interested with the ppl who think it's sad etc....
Is it the environment that is sad, or the way people use it, or the fact the people use it at all?

Re: DR Phil and blaming games...

While I oppose the idea that games inspire ppl to go on a rampage, do you reckon that games are increasing the mortality rate when there is a shooting?

mixtress · Post by **mixtress** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:58 pm

ArrBee wrote:
The Mixtress wrote:The internet rocks, no question. I'm on it all day and every day. It has it's place, but it's not a replacement.

how do you find the time to be on the net "all day every day" and not have it replace anything?
Were you doing nothing at all previously?

You missed my point ArrBee...

Post by **huge** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:58 pm

games improve hand eye coordination

Post by **system** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:04 pm

mrj wrote:The difference is relationships

point taken.

personally, I don't see the difference between using a BBS back in 1987, this IBB on MB and Second Life. it's all shades of grey to me.

The Mixtress wrote:
ArrBee wrote:
The Mixtress wrote:The internet rocks, no question. I'm on it all day and every day. It has it's place, but it's not a replacement.

how do you find the time to be on the net "all day every day" and not have it replace anything?
Were you doing nothing at all previously?

You missed my point ArrBee...

if computer/network-based communication has its place, what is that place? what is it not replacing?