Second Life
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notwithstanding is a cool word.
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LuKo wrote:its really really farkin sad
get music software and make tunes , paint, do something
go for a jog, get healthy, lose weight
used to play alot of computer games. such a waist of time. i realise now.
now i write tunes. The feeling of accomplishment you get from producing and creating your own artistic works can never be replicated by playing games n shit online.
Didnt really realise this or have the option available to me. Games just seemed like a way to cure boredom. But i can see why so many people get hooked into these online virtual realities.
And when i do play games i like to be able to finish them and say "Yes ive clocked it" but games like world of warcraft never allow this to happen and become a drug/addiction where you always have to do something else, get the next item, blah blah.
In theory this is no different. If, lets say in 10 years A.I develops to a point that a computer can think like a human being (or close enough) What will be the difference between playing someone online and playing against a computer which has the same ability to think as a human?mrj wrote: recent online advances notwithstanding, computer games are by and large played by one person against the computer
The only difference is that now computers arent that smart. In theory I think its the same thing (video game interaction and Second Life Interaction ESPECIALLY if you never meet the second life partner in real life- They might aswell be a smart computer for all the user knows.
Havent met in real life that is. Why is meeting someone face to face so important to get to know them. Can you express thoughts and feelings the same way to someone in just words ( of course body language and touch are fairly important communication tools but in developing a friend/ aquaintance relationship not necasarilly needed).mrj wrote: People having virtual marriages, living in virtual houses, and striking up deep friendships with people they haven't met
Agreed 100%mrj wrote: IMO its all real world, its just that the virtual world is another tool by which you can communicate. I think you will find that people who get addicted to these games and spend all their spare time on them probably have troubles with communication in real life. It might be confidence, actual speech problems, or maybe they are just an asshole and no one likes them.
I think there is a difference and will reiterate my point as evidently I might have stumbled in the explaining the first time.system wrote:while I admire the verbosity of the retort, I fail to see the difference between a human or a computer controlled character in a modern video game. to me, this is just all falls under the generic anorak wearing label - just updated for the zeitgeist. the information exchange in games/VRs/etc is just more immediate, so the length of immersion/engagement is artificially prolonged.mrj wrote:I don't agree.Hatsudai wrote: Yes!
I for one am not really into this second life bizzle but whats the difference between using this site and playing Grand Theft Auto or any other game for that matter.
Both are immersive interactive environments in which the user escapes from thier day to day reality when they engage in these environments.
Why are video games pretty widely accepted when these forms of electronic interaction are seen as sad?
recent online advances notwithstanding, computer games are by and large played by one person against the computer, and if there are multple players then they all tend to be in the same room together (please note I said recent online advances notwithstanding so don't come back at me on the fact that they need not be in the same room, thats a recent phenonon IMO and one the larger public wouldn't be gaming at this level yet - I may be wrong)
I think the reason people decry these games is the relationship portion (which I don't believe is evident in most traditional video games). People having virtual marriages, living in virtual houses, and striking up deep friendships with people they haven't met for most people is an idea that is forgein, frightening, and they would say "sad". Most people, given the choice, would prefer to have a relationship in real life, rather than in a virtual world. I'm not subscribing to these points of view, merley stating that some people may have them.
I think most people are opposed to the extreme end of this scale, where people are spending more time on these "virtual" relationships, rather than ones built in the real world. IMO its all real world, its just that the virtual world is another tool by which you can communicate. I think you will find that people who get addicted to these games and spend all their spare time on them probably have troubles with communication in real life. It might be confidence, actual speech problems, or maybe they are just an asshole and no one likes them.
The merits of whether its "sad" or not doesn't bother me. Its not part of my world so I don't care, live and let live. But, I don't think you can say that these games are the same as video games the way we have thought of them in the past.
The difference is relationships
The difference with these online games is that you are playing against and with real people. The character you are dealing with is just as complex as you. They have logic. They have a sense of humour. They are unpredictable. They can be tired, or not concentrating. etc etc. The same cannot be said of traditional video games.
This introduces all the facets of personal relationships into these games. You have friends. You have enemies. You have that person crop up who you see conincidentally from time to time and have never met. This is the element that I think sets these games apart, and this is the element that detractors of these games and the people who play them focus on as a negative. These people would argue that relationships that exist solely in computers, be they games or indeed forums, or not valid. Naturally I don't subscribe to this point of view, but I don't think its completley invalid either. I believe that whilst you can interact on the internet, its certainly no substitute for real life interaction. I don't think any of us believe that.
But, Im not going to argue the merits of virtual vs real life relationships. I'm simply saying that the realtionship facet of online gaming is what makes it different from traditional video games.
He's climbing in your windows, he's snatching your people up.
well yeah, but you cant stare at their titsHatsudai wrote:Havent met in real life that is. Why is meeting someone face to face so important to get to know them. Can you express thoughts and feelings the same way to someone in just words ( of course body language and touch are fairly important communication tools but in developing a friend/ aquaintance relationship not necasarilly needed).mrj wrote: People having virtual marriages, living in virtual houses, and striking up deep friendships with people they haven't met
but seriously, this is a valid point, meeting someone online can lead to finding your soulmate in terms of personality, but in RL will you have that spark, that chemistry that makes a relationship so special? i doubt it
Because getting off chops and talking shit with randoms you'll never see again is so much more meaningful?mrj wrote: ...I believe that whilst you can interact on the internet, its certainly no substitute for real life interaction. I don't think any of us believe that...
I'm not sure if you're saying that there needs to be a balance or whether by and large, real world interaction is more meaningful?
There's no justice, just us.
Hmmmmm I said in my first post that on this that I don't really care either way. The online gaming phenomenon doesn't really touch my life in any way, so I say live and let live.aspekt wrote:Because getting off chops and talking shit with randoms you'll never see again is so much more meaningful?mrj wrote: ...I believe that whilst you can interact on the internet, its certainly no substitute for real life interaction. I don't think any of us believe that...
I'm not sure if you're saying that there needs to be a balance or whether by and large, real world interaction is more meaningful?
However, I do have an opinon. I'm not saying that there are not elements to these that aren't fun. And I do believe you can meet people etc via these forms of communication, as you can on forums.
But there does need to be balance. Spending all your time on online gaming I would consider unhealthy, much the same as I would spending all your time on internet forums. Nothing can replace real world relationships. Parts of it can be mimicked, even made better (for example I think forums are great for arguing because people get a chance to edit and develop their opinions, its real time essay writing!!) but it can't match real life on everything. I think its ludicrous to believe that it can, or even come close. I'm not saying there are not elements that work, and that its not a valid means of communicating, I'm just saying it shouldn't be the only one.
He's climbing in your windows, he's snatching your people up.
By the way I never said that, or even came close, its just an example plucked from nowhere.aspekt wrote:Because getting off chops and talking shit with randoms you'll never see again is so much more meaningful?mrj wrote: ...I believe that whilst you can interact on the internet, its certainly no substitute for real life interaction. I don't think any of us believe that...
I was referring to real life day to day interaction on a normal level.
I would say the same of munted conversations as I would of gaming, or internet forums. Fun in small doses, but you need to remember its place and not let it control your life!
He's climbing in your windows, he's snatching your people up.
mrj wrote:By the way I never said that, or even came close, its just an example plucked from nowhere.aspekt wrote:Because getting off chops and talking shit with randoms you'll never see again is so much more meaningful?mrj wrote: ...I believe that whilst you can interact on the internet, its certainly no substitute for real life interaction. I don't think any of us believe that...
I was referring to real life day to day interaction on a normal level.
I would say the same of munted conversations as I would of gaming, or internet forums. Fun in small doses, but you need to remember its place and not let it control your life!
So true. Though, some people are socially retarted (even more so now-a-days) and can only communitate virtually. What the hell.
When I heard the rediculous amounts of money these people can make, it got me wondering to be honest. Far, let me sit in front of the computer, do fuck all and earn shit loads!deviant wrote:that doco was off the hook
the gold coin farms in china were alarming to say the least. People play WoW as a job, they live at these places and get paid $4000 per month to play 12hours of WoW per day. They then on sell the gold these kids generate to rich khunts in the USA and Europe for $10 per 250 coins.... some of these chinese kids are generating like 30-40 million coins per day.....
lol, is that one of your pickup lines?quick wrote:true, so whats your RSVP login?aspekt wrote: Using dating websites is becoming pretty normal/mainstream these days and is no longer just the realm of desperate perverts. It's probably a far more honest way of meeting someone than trying to get them drunk at a club.
There's no justice, just us.
no my favorite pick up line is "don't make me break the law"aspekt wrote:lol, is that one of your pickup lines?quick wrote:true, so whats your RSVP login?aspekt wrote: Using dating websites is becoming pretty normal/mainstream these days and is no longer just the realm of desperate perverts. It's probably a far more honest way of meeting someone than trying to get them drunk at a club.
making music isn't sad.mecka wrote:i find it ironic that you choose to tell people to be creative with music software and then proceed to hang shit on people who make money from software.
forming relationships through the intertubes or whatever isn't sad.
using the intertron as a substitute for actual personal relationships, and having all your interactions through that ... now that's sad.
You missed my point there entirely fooish. I was pointing out the fact that making virtual clothes to sell online is not too far off from making music to sell or show off to other people.fooishbar wrote: using the intertron as a substitute for actual personal relationships, and having all your interactions through that ... now that's sad.
but.. to the lasts sentence of your reply.
Aren't there people here who know each other solely from this website and have never met/never will meet in real life?
Or are you talking about ALL social interactions? Because i'm fairly certain that the people who are like that are still a fairly tiny minority.
As far as I'm concerned, the world is speeding towards a point where face to face social interaction is not going to be nearly as important a factor as it is to us today. The issue at hand here is that most of you seem to be a little alienated or put off by the idea.
welll, bearing in mind that my last job was offered me over email, and i didn't meet any of my co-workers (except jeff and thom who i had met beforehand, and had originally met online anyway) until three or four months after i started, and do basically all my work online ...mecka wrote:You missed my point there entirely fooish. I was pointing out the fact that making virtual clothes to sell online is not too far off from making music to sell or show off to other people.fooishbar wrote:using the intertron as a substitute for actual personal relationships, and having all your interactions through that ... now that's sad.
but.. to the lasts sentence of your reply.
Aren't there people here who know each other solely from this website and have never met/never will meet in real life?
Or are you talking about ALL social interactions? Because i'm fairly certain that the people who are like that are still a fairly tiny minority.
As far as I'm concerned, the world is speeding towards a point where face to face social interaction is not going to be nearly as important a factor as it is to us today. The issue at hand here is that most of you seem to be a little alienated or put off by the idea.
i'm not averse to online interaction, or online relationships. what i don't like is people who have the _option_, and always communicate online. like a particular couple i knew who used to sit at adjacent desks playing wow, and talk to each other over aim. i mean, ffs.
second life seems to be aimed at taking away a lot of the incentive to meet irl (why would you go to miss l's for coffee when you can have a virtual coffee at miss l's in second life, and talk to j there?). and that's what sucks, imo.
(and yes, there are some people on here i haven't met at all. some i haven't seen in 3 months and won't see for a few yet. some i haven't seen in almost two years. life's tough.)
Aren't you?? That thought saddens the shit outta me. The lack of the sensual (touch, smell, taste etc) would drive me slowly insane.mecka wrote:As far as I'm concerned, the world is speeding towards a point where face to face social interaction is not going to be nearly as important a factor as it is to us today. The issue at hand here is that most of you seem to be a little alienated or put off by the idea.
Only the meek get pinched...the bold survive
Like I said... who needs the touch, smell, taste senses of interaction when you have porn. Porn porn porn porn porn. Play WOW all day, have a wank, then go to bed. Seriously, all bases covered.The Mixtress wrote:Aren't you?? That thought saddens the shit outta me. The lack of the sensual (touch, smell, taste etc) would drive me slowly insane.mecka wrote:As far as I'm concerned, the world is speeding towards a point where face to face social interaction is not going to be nearly as important a factor as it is to us today. The issue at hand here is that most of you seem to be a little alienated or put off by the idea.
Internet for LIFE.
Why would i be alienated or put off by it? The future is something to be excited about not scared of. Im pretty confident this is the way things are moving. And if you bothered to read into my post at all I'm talking about face to face social interaction not a complete turning over of the senses to the virtual realm.The Mixtress wrote:Aren't you?? That thought saddens the shit outta me. The lack of the sensual (touch, smell, taste etc) would drive me slowly insane.mecka wrote:As far as I'm concerned, the world is speeding towards a point where face to face social interaction is not going to be nearly as important a factor as it is to us today. The issue at hand here is that most of you seem to be a little alienated or put off by the idea.
I wouldve expected a more ... appropriate comment from a mod. Oh yeah you posted goat.se over in another thread.lynt wrote:Like I said... who needs the touch, smell, taste senses of interaction when you have porn. Porn porn porn porn porn. Play WOW all day, have a wank, then go to bed. Seriously, all bases covered.
Internet for LIFE.
btw WoW = aids.
yes, and the future is soylent green. not all progress is necessarily good. of course, not all progress is necessarily bad. either extreme is stupid.mecka wrote:Why would i be alienated or put off by it? The future is something to be excited about not scared of. Im pretty confident this is the way things are moving. And if you bothered to read into my post at all I'm talking about face to face social interaction not a complete turning over of the senses to the virtual realm.
read the thread again ...mecka wrote:I wouldve expected a more ... appropriate comment from a mod. Oh yeah you posted goat.se over in another thread.
on this we agree.mecka wrote:btw WoW = aids.
For the record, I'm fairly certain people here have heard about others that form relationships and live vicariously through Second Life and automatically assumed they've turned their own lives completely over to playing the damn game/interacting with the virtual world.
Either way, its all coming across as a gross overreaction.
Either way, its all coming across as a gross overreaction.
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i dont think playing computer games a lot is sad at all. as far as i can see here, its something you cant quite understand. as has been said here already, some people just dont like to interact face to face. that is their problem, maybe it isnt even a problem.
it makes them happy, leave them alone.
i met all you bastards on the internets.
it makes them happy, leave them alone.
i met all you bastards on the internets.
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- huge
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oh yeah, there is nothing wrong with porn either!!
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mecka wrote:I wouldve expected a more ... appropriate comment from a mod. Oh yeah you posted goat.se over in another thread.lynt wrote:Like I said... who needs the touch, smell, taste senses of interaction when you have porn. Porn porn porn porn porn. Play WOW all day, have a wank, then go to bed. Seriously, all bases covered.
Internet for LIFE.
btw WoW = aids.
Hey, I'm a mod with an opinion, isn't freedom of speech what you cry for everytime we lock a thread?
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- huge
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A little boy goes to his father and asks "Daddy, how was I born?"
The father answers: "Well son, I guess one day you will need to find out anyway!
Your Mum and I first got together in a chat room on Yahoo. Then I set up a date via e-mail with your Mum and we met at a cyber-cafe.
We sneaked into a secluded room, where your mother agreed to a download from my hard drive.
As soon as I was ready to upload, we discovered that neither one of us had used a firewall, and since it was too late to hit the delete button, nine months later a little Pop-Up appeared that said:
YOU GOT MALE
The father answers: "Well son, I guess one day you will need to find out anyway!
Your Mum and I first got together in a chat room on Yahoo. Then I set up a date via e-mail with your Mum and we met at a cyber-cafe.
We sneaked into a secluded room, where your mother agreed to a download from my hard drive.
As soon as I was ready to upload, we discovered that neither one of us had used a firewall, and since it was too late to hit the delete button, nine months later a little Pop-Up appeared that said:
YOU GOT MALE
\o/almax wrote:A little boy goes to his father and asks "Daddy, how was I born?"
The father answers: "Well son, I guess one day you will need to find out anyway!
Your Mum and I first got together in a chat room on Yahoo. Then I set up a date via e-mail with your Mum and we met at a cyber-cafe.
We sneaked into a secluded room, where your mother agreed to a download from my hard drive.
As soon as I was ready to upload, we discovered that neither one of us had used a firewall, and since it was too late to hit the delete button, nine months later a little Pop-Up appeared that said:
YOU GOT MALE
There's no justice, just us.
The Mixtress wrote:The internet rocks, no question. I'm on it all day and every day. It has it's place, but it's not a replacement.
how do you find the time to be on the net "all day every day" and not have it replace anything?
Were you doing nothing at all previously?
I'd be interested with the ppl who think it's sad etc....
Is it the environment that is sad, or the way people use it, or the fact the people use it at all?
Re: DR Phil and blaming games...
While I oppose the idea that games inspire ppl to go on a rampage, do you reckon that games are increasing the mortality rate when there is a shooting?
You missed my point ArrBee...ArrBee wrote:The Mixtress wrote:The internet rocks, no question. I'm on it all day and every day. It has it's place, but it's not a replacement.
how do you find the time to be on the net "all day every day" and not have it replace anything?
Were you doing nothing at all previously?
Only the meek get pinched...the bold survive
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games improve hand eye coordination
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point taken.mrj wrote:The difference is relationships
personally, I don't see the difference between using a BBS back in 1987, this IBB on MB and Second Life. it's all shades of grey to me.
if computer/network-based communication has its place, what is that place? what is it not replacing?The Mixtress wrote:You missed my point ArrBee...ArrBee wrote:The Mixtress wrote:The internet rocks, no question. I'm on it all day and every day. It has it's place, but it's not a replacement.
how do you find the time to be on the net "all day every day" and not have it replace anything?
Were you doing nothing at all previously?
DRS wrote:It’s uplifting while we drift through time,
‘cause we keep pushing the vibe.