getting published > take 2.

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Thu May 31, 2007 1:00 pm

hi guys...

so yall know i book stuff and do promo for Lounge,
but my real talent, the one thing i havent learned but grew up doing,
is writing.

Yes, i mainly write what could be called poetry (but i hate the word and its connotations) it is often wierd, funny and not too self indulgent
(well some of it is, but i write that for me and me only)
when i read stuff people do laugh, cry and ask for copies, so i know theres somethin there.

yes, i have written my share of articles and interviews and reviews, but find them too easy and boring often.
i have published about 2000 of my own zines and given them away, and written a few pieces for mags throughout the last ten years.

i have hundreds and hundreds of bits of writing.

i want to get published.
in my own book, possibly with my own photos or in collaboration with someone else.

has anyone done this?
does anyone have advice?
because of course, i am great at promoting other people, and shithouse at promoting myself.

there is some oldish stuff on my website
http://www.ghettokitty.com.au

but i will post some newer stuff here later today.

spiral · Post by **spiral** » Thu May 31, 2007 1:18 pm

you can always self publish

http://www.lulu.com/author/create.php

is one way of doing it

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Thu May 31, 2007 1:24 pm

i kind of already have.

i want distribution by someone who knows what they are doing.

its more about getting it out there than seeing it in print, ive done that for ages...

flippo · Post by **flippo** » Thu May 31, 2007 2:02 pm

speaking of publishing...

say someone was asked to help out with a book in an educational/text book series for early highschool kids, which included a Bio on them and their work which they put together, and two photos which they took, how much would they expect to get paid?

I was manic at the time and said I didn't require payment. Now I'm trying to scrape some cash together for a new studio computer and I'm wondering how much I might have missed out on.

/end hijack.

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Thu May 31, 2007 2:13 pm

id say around $500, but depends on how many copies, what distro etc etc

seems nobody here has any advice for kitty really..

back to accosting people when theyre sunday fucked to read to them

mixtress · Post by **mixtress** » Thu May 31, 2007 2:15 pm

Wish I had something for ya babe. The people who published my Mum's book were fucktards...I wouldn't recommend them to anyone.

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Thu May 31, 2007 2:16 pm

yeah, ive had a few nos, and rude dudes.

i jsut dunno what the feck to do with it all.

and i dont jsut want to publish online, theres something about REAL books that i value.

nic · Post by **nic** » Thu May 31, 2007 2:17 pm

get a mad loan and do it.
if you reckon its good take a risk.

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Thu May 31, 2007 2:18 pm

its not the $$
its not the risk

its the distro.

i dont have the know how to get it in bookstores,
and i dont know where to take it.

plus > i want to be told what to write next, i can write on any subject, two drafts from whoa to go.

needs more book deal.

nic · Post by **nic** » Thu May 31, 2007 2:21 pm

hmm i suppose you just have to flog it hard on all avenues until someone bites?

almax · Post by **almax** » Thu May 31, 2007 2:40 pm

My housemate wrote his (now ex) girlfriend a poem once, and he was looking for some help online and came across a website where you enter the poem and if its deemed good enough, they publish it in a book

sneaky hands · Post by **sneaky hands** » Thu May 31, 2007 2:53 pm

www.redbubble.com.au will allow you to publish and distribute it.

if youre looking for more professional publisher who will get your book in shops etc, a friend of mine used the following approach which paid off big time:

- make a professional looking package - essentially a mockup of what you want published. Make it look like you want it to look like in shops, using publishing software.
- write a bio and give a sense of the "why" behind the book
- in the mean time, do some research about which publishers print this kind of thing.
- send each publisher youve decided to target a package with the book and your bio.

Good luck!

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Thu May 31, 2007 3:25 pm

almax > yeah i have done a copule of them, they are a bit of acrock, the only point is to get people to buy the 'books' they are published in...

sneaky > thanks for the link and the advice...
i might have to take some time laying it out etc, but all the work is already there!

almax · Post by **almax** » Thu May 31, 2007 3:37 pm

ghetto kitty wrote:almax > yeah i have done a copule of them, they are a bit of acrock, the only point is to get people to buy the 'books' they are published in...

Yeah i thought as much, cause his "poems" were feckin horrible

retzie · Post by **retzie** » Thu May 31, 2007 3:56 pm

Agree completely with sneaky re professional publication. I have to say, though, I wouldn't rate your chances.

Once upon a time, I did a lot of creative writing and was (admittedly very half-arsedly) looking into publishing a collection sort of like you've described. Fact of the matter is, it is very difficult to get anything unsolicited published, let alone a whole book. Through school, I entered quite a bit of work in various 'literary' competitions, which can get you a bit of money and recognition, which is a good start. The Writers' Festival will also be coming up in a bit, so that can be a good way to make connections or at least pick the brains of people who already have success in the area.

There are other options if you are just wanting to get some individual pieces out there. Two magazines that spring to mind are Meanjin and Overland. These are pretty serious contenders, though, and might not exactly be what you are looking for. A look through the magazine rack at Readings should reveal these along with other local possibilities.

If you decide to go with sneaky's suggestion, I'd have a look for similar publications and target those publishers. You're proposing a fairly boutique style of book, so I wouldn't waste your money sending it to the 'Novel or STFU' types.

For more ideas, you could also try the Victorian Writers' Centre

Good luck!

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Thu May 31, 2007 4:07 pm

hmmm great advice, and much of what ive either experienced or
felt already...

i have been quite half arsed about it, but it still feels like an insurmountable thing to be doing anything like 'prose-poetry-creative etc"

im not a novel writer, and that seems to be much simpler in theory to get published.....in theory.

retzie wrote: If you decide to go with sneaky's suggestion, I'd have a look for similar publications and target those publishers. You're proposing a fairly boutique style of book, so I wouldn't waste your money sending it to the 'Novel or STFU' types.

yeah, more research, and like three months holed up making and sifting and collating.
which i dont have right now. but fuck, its jsut so frustrating to have so many people who read your stuff tell you to go and get published, to write a book, and not the slightest idea how to do it.

retzie · Post by **retzie** » Thu May 31, 2007 4:21 pm

Yeah, it's one of those 'the best way to get published is to already be published'

If you don't have the time now, maybe just send some individual stuff off to magazines as is. In my experience, even if they don't publish you, they will often get back to you with some helpful (!) feedback. This is not to be confused with academic journals, who are usually just lazy and rude

A cruise through Readings (or similar) will probably yield quite a lot of info. Skimming the magazines and even just asking what local houses publish poetry could be a quick and easy way to make some headway.

I know the thought of all the effort required to put together a decent prototype is daunting, but if you've already got some (hopefully constructive) professional feedback, you at least know it has some non-friend-related merit. I hope you're good with rejection, though, coz it can be a pretty demoralising process.....

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Thu May 31, 2007 4:30 pm

retzie wrote: If you don't have the time now, maybe just send some individual stuff off to magazines as is. In my experience, even if they don't publish you, they will often get back to you with some helpful (!) feedback.

yeah, i can do that i guess.
i do have all of them on file almost, so its easy enuf to write a simple cover letter and bang off a few emails to the right people, if i can find em!

I hope you're good with rejection, though, coz it can be a pretty demoralising process.....

hehehe thats just it. im not really. and everytime i get a rude NO, i wait another year untill im ready to go at it again. i need to toughen up.
ive even sent letters asking for advice from publishers, or any contacts or people they could put me in touch with, and recieved NO in answer, so its kind of disheartening.

the only people i know who write are either journalists or screen writers, and neither are really what im gonig for.

and > i hate the word poetry.
it just conjures angst and self indulgent tripe about lost loves.
i have my share of those poems too, but i specialise in the social commentary, insightful with a twist of rampant humour type stuff.

fuck knows who the market even is outsdie of my disfunctional fucked up trans gender and sometimes spiritual friends.

retzie · Post by **retzie** » Thu May 31, 2007 4:49 pm

Urgh, Poetry.... A girl I went to school with wrote Poetry - including an epic 3000 word number about a life-long love story :vomit:. If pushed, I will admit that I wrote some 'poems', then rush to say that they were more like prose and were pretty mean and nasty. Needless to say, they loved her, while backing away from me carefully......

Rejection for stuff that you've poured your heart and soul into sucks. Completely. In the bad way. I just got an (academic) article rejected and even though I've gotten a thicker skin over the years, it made me want to hide in a corner and never write anything again. The good news is that recovery times improve

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Thu May 31, 2007 5:59 pm

yes, mean and nasty prose is much better heheh

whats your academic article on?

(interested in what you write now!)

retzie · Post by **retzie** » Thu May 31, 2007 6:10 pm

*cough*maths*cough*

In my defence, it's mainly words and pictures......

And that's what can go wrong kids - at school I wanted to be a writer and now I've ended up a mathematician. If only it had been easier to get my stories published........

Post by **system** » Thu May 31, 2007 6:16 pm

retzie wrote:that's what can go wrong kids - at school I wanted to be a writer and now I've ended up a mathematician. If only it had been easier to get my stories published........

didn't prove a problem for Greg Egan.

mixtress · Post by **mixtress** » Thu May 31, 2007 6:20 pm

retzie wrote:Urgh, Poetry.... A girl I went to school with wrote Poetry - including an epic 3000 word number about a life-long love story :vomit:. If pushed, I will admit that I wrote some 'poems', then rush to say that they were more like prose and were pretty mean and nasty. Needless to say, they loved her, while backing away from me carefully......

Rejection for stuff that you've poured your heart and soul into sucks. Completely. In the bad way. I just got an (academic) article rejected and even though I've gotten a thicker skin over the years, it made me want to hide in a corner and never write anything again. The good news is that recovery times improve

This probably isn't terribly relevent, but your post reminded me. I used to do creative writing in high school, it was the only thing I was remotely good at. Come Yr 12 English CAT's, my first draft was questioned. My teacher, in front of a class full of kids mind you, said "it's too good to be your work. you've never shown before that you are any good at creative writing, I don't believe this work is yours". We'd never done creative writing with him before, so I didn't understand where he was coming from.

Mum and I had a meeting with him, the Yr 12 co-ord and the principal. Mum told them she was with me when I wrote it, no plagerism involved. Didn't believe us. I told them I read everything from Isaac Asimov to Jackie Collins. Didn't believe me. So I had to write a new story from scratch, locked in a room with my English teacher to prove I could do it. 8 pages later the bell rings and I hand him the draft.

Long story short (too late) VCAB gave me an A+ for the CAT. My first ever A+ in my schooling career.

Since then though I've never really felt inclined to write. That inital accusation put such a dent in my self esteem I felt everything I wrote would be compared and poked and prodded. The A+ was vindication, but not really enough to urge me forward.

Fucker

I hate him

Hatsudai · Post by **Hatsudai** » Thu May 31, 2007 10:48 pm

The Mixtress wrote:
Mum and I had a meeting with him, the Yr 12 co-ord and the principal. Mum told them she was with me when I wrote it, no plagerism involved. Didn't believe us. I told them I read everything from Isaac Asimov to Jackie Collins. Didn't believe me. So I had to write a new story from scratch, locked in a room with my English teacher to prove I could do it. 8 pages later the bell rings and I hand him the draft.

Thats such a sad story. F***ing Nazi's (not lit) with thier idea on who is/ and or can be creative.

Everyone has imagination and the ability to express it, but most people are strangled of the means to convey thier original ideas within the modern schooling system.

Congrats on the A+ and sticking it to your teacher/school!!

Back on topic! GK I don't have the foggiest about the publishing world but perhaps you could apply concepts you have learnt from the club/art world.

Perhaps get sponsors or base the proposed book around a party or event??? (in a non cheesy way?)

Good luck either way....

SoulWhiteMan · Post by **SoulWhiteMan** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:01 am

Kitty

you can get a literary agent, these guys will be on first name basis of publishers throughout Australia.

If your work is good enough, they will take it to people who need to read it.

Just a thought?

I was reccomended a literary agent by a few writers who visited our highschool; they say that if you have something out there you strongly beleive in, it is best to "market" yourself to the publishers through a strong literary agent.

SoulWhiteMan · Post by **SoulWhiteMan** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:02 am

retzie wrote:Yeah, it's one of those 'the best way to get published is to already be published'

If you don't have the time now, maybe just send some individual stuff off to magazines as is. In my experience, even if they don't publish you, they will often get back to you with some helpful (!) feedback. This is not to be confused with academic journals, who are usually just lazy and rude

A cruise through Readings (or similar) will probably yield quite a lot of info. Skimming the magazines and even just asking what local houses publish poetry could be a quick and easy way to make some headway.

I know the thought of all the effort required to put together a decent prototype is daunting, but if you've already got some (hopefully constructive) professional feedback, you at least know it has some non-friend-related merit. I hope you're good with rejection, though, coz it can be a pretty demoralising process.....

academic journals for mathematics...... fuck me, I thought the social sciences were bad! Bunch of Good Will Hunting arseholes being knowitalls!

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:12 pm

mixxy > i have similar stories from school.
thats why i hated school and couldnt wait to leave, the only things i was good at (not maths and sciene!) i was TOO good at.
phhht.
my writing used to scare the shit out of my teachers casue it was so raw and real for someone who was 14...

retzie > hehehe i hear you, set out with one goal, end up in the polar opposite!

SWM > i just dont really know how to go about 'getting' a literary agent!
but that sounds like an angle.

hatsudai> hmmm yes, i guess i prolly will end up just getting sick of marketing other peoples art and music and apply myself to my own stuff.
not really sure how i could tie it in with something from a different medium.
but food for thought, definately...

hmmmmmmmmmm

Post by **huge** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:17 pm

you deffo need a literary agent.

check your spelling too

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:24 pm

i do check my spelling.

im dislexic, which often accounts for switched around letters in my posts.

i edit, but only to a certain point on forums.

SoulWhiteMan · Post by **SoulWhiteMan** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:12 pm

http://www.writers.net/agents/country/14/
http://www.austlit.com/
http://www.writers-centre.org/infopage. ... foPageID=0

PahMaLa · Post by **PahMaLa** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:20 pm

I don't have any advice sorry, (I do agree on getting in touch with literary agent) but I do want to wish you luck. Trying to become a well known writer/author is huge competition. I to also have the dream of one day being published, but at the moment I am too content with just reading other peoples works.
I'm sure your reach your goal!

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:24 pm

thanks for the links SWM, sent a copule emails to some of them.

of course, lots of the agents say that 'unpublished wirters need to have a publisher interested already" PHHT.

and some even say only 'no poetry'

hehehehe

fuck.

maybe when im fifty ill live in a wooden house in a forest with lots of animals
and write my best seller, like every other thwarted writer who writes great stuff, and then dies.

sheesh.

retzie · Post by **retzie** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:55 pm

SoulWhiteMan wrote:academic journals for mathematics...... fuck me, I thought the social sciences were bad! Bunch of Good Will Hunting arseholes being knowitalls!

Absolutely shits me to tears. Yes, the referees are probably better mathematicians than I am, but I felt like replying to my last one with "CAN YOU ACTUALLY READ????" Their grasp of the written word is tenuous at best. Unfortunately, I am a wordy bitch at the best of times, so I unwittingly upset the poor little flowers by using words like 'paucity'..... Oh well, that article got there in the end

Kitty, the first piece of advice authors usually gave to me was 'Make sure you have another job.' Awesome advice guys..... I guess too much of the writing scene is subject to random chance to make it something you can count on. You've gotta put yourself out there though, otherwise it will never happen.

I reckon a few pieces in half-decent literary mags would definitely help on the agent front. And remember, if all else fails, you've always got the dead crazy woman in a cabin plan to fall back on

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:08 pm

retzie wrote: Kitty, the first piece of advice authors usually gave to me was 'Make sure you have another job.' Awesome advice guys..... I guess too much of the writing scene is subject to random chance to make it something you can count on. You've gotta put yourself out there though, otherwise it will never happen.

hehehe i do, i have a good job at the moment, and i have lots of things and skills etc that i can do and have had many different jobs in the past.

BUT > i still maintain that writing is the ONLY thing i havent learnt, that i have grown up doing and will do when all else fails.
and i do not want money from my words, although that would be nice.

i want people to feel summin (hello hippy at heart)
question things about the world, their lives etc etc
i would like my name in lights of course, but id be satisfied getting it out there to more than 1000 people in melbourne, who i have already accosted with hand stapled, hand stencilled zines for the last three years.

whats 'paucity" ??

hehehehe

mixtress · Post by **mixtress** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:36 pm

paucity = lack of.

I like what you said about writing Kitty, that it's the only thing you haven't learned, that it comes naturally. I feel the same way. Some people are just born with certain talents I reckon. I can't sing, play music or paint but I can write.

Well put

spiral · Post by **spiral** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:50 pm

good luck with it as my favourite author said the best advise you can give a writer is "learn to type"

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:54 pm

The Mixtress wrote:I can't sing, play music or paint but I can write.

i can paint, but not well!
i cant really sing or play music either!

hehehehe

coda · Post by **coda** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:07 pm

is there any chance of a sample poem to read? or can i pick your zines up from Poly?

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:35 am

no more zines im afraid...

sent ya a pm...

Andrez · Post by **Andrez** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:48 pm

Wish I could help - still looking half-heartedly into the publishing angle myself. If I hear anything, will give you a yell!

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:20 pm

andrez > check out those links above and tell me what you think, some of them are for online self publishing scenarios and then they sell your hard copy books for you...

i had a look on the forums there but some of the poetry REALLY put me off!

hmmmmmmm

more research needed

nic · Post by **nic** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:35 pm

i hvee mahd slexica too.

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:36 pm

so its a full year later, and im still thinking about doing this, but im now thinking of self publishing, not for any pipe dreams of making it big...

but purely cause I love writing and am constantly reading it to people and STILL want to get it out there, just out there, anywhere!

i am thinking of doing a small run of 500 -100 and using my contacts in the music industry to do a launch etc, and im pretty confident i could sell almost 500 to my crew and extended peoples. i mean, youll all buy one, right ?

ive been googling different print houses etc for quotes.
it may be about $2k for 500 books.

thoughts anyone?

quiet roar · Post by **quiet roar** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:56 pm

I'll stock your book, kitty. And I reckon most indie stores will stock it on a consignment basis.

As for distributors/publishers, I would try Giramondo Press (distributed by Tower Books) because they do a shitload of local poetry. Also Wakefield Press, Dennis Jones, and Australian Book Group are worth a try. They are the smaller publishers that are more likely to take a punt on a untried author.

Literary agent would be great but I imagine they would be as adventurous as the publishers.

Charlie73 · Post by **Charlie73** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:58 pm

ghetto kitty wrote:so its a full year later, and im still thinking about doing this, but im now thinking of self publishing, not for any pipe dreams of making it big...

but purely cause I love writing and am constantly reading it to people and STILL want to get it out there, just out there, anywhere!

i am thinking of doing a small run of 500 -100 and using my contacts in the music industry to do a launch etc, and im pretty confident i could sell almost 500 to my crew and extended peoples. i mean, youll all buy one, right ?

ive been googling different print houses etc for quotes.
it may be about $2k for 500 books.

thoughts anyone?

DO IT!

Lil MiSbreaks · Post by **Lil MiSbreaks** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:50 pm

ghetto kitty wrote:its not the $$
its not the risk

its the distro.

i dont have the know how to get it in bookstores,
and i dont know where to take it.

plus > i want to be told what to write next, i can write on any subject, two drafts from whoa to go.

needs more book deal.

I know someone who might be able to help you...at least get you in contact with some of the right people. This bird is wicked, she writes children's books and is such a stoner, i love it

Let me get her email addy and i'll pm you k.

Welcome back btw lady!

Lephrenic · Post by **Lephrenic** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:20 am

nic wrote:i hvee mahd slexica too.

No, you just type like a hipster.

Lephrenic · Post by **Lephrenic** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:21 am

mrj · Post by **mrj** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:23 am

nic wrote:i hvee mahd slexica too.

I thought very hard about walking down that path, then decided no, that would be too rude.

god bless you nic.

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:22 pm

quiet roar wrote:I'll stock your book, kitty. And I reckon most indie stores will stock it on a consignment basis.

As for distributors/publishers, I would try Giramondo Press (distributed by Tower Books) because they do a shitload of local poetry. Also Wakefield Press, Dennis Jones, and Australian Book Group are worth a try. They are the smaller publishers that are more likely to take a punt on a untried author.

thanks quiet roar! ill check out those publishers and id love to have em at brunswick bound when they are in hand!

and LMB > that would be great lady, part of the problem is everyone i know makes music, not words! so i have a limited number of people to throw ideas at, hence my posts here....any more writers would be great to meet.

have been thinking of running an open mic night for words, and mcs actually, i dunno, no matter what i do Ill always be writing.