The Great Hip Hop Debate

DBoy · Post by **DBoy** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:18 pm

Few Hip Hop threads but most seem to be specific – where as I have been thinking more broadly about this.

My tastes in Hip Hop (music) have shifted greatly over the years and they vary immensely as well. I often like one tune from a particular artist but not a whole lot else. Or I get into a scene for a little bit but don’t like a lot of the other stuff I find if I look around at what else is in their style – take San Fran or Bay Hip Hop for instance on that tip.

I have a deep appreciation for Hip Hop and once did a 3 episode (6 hours) history of hip hop on my radio show. This covered everything from roots to what was current at the time (late 90’s). I also used Hip Hop as the backdrop for a some of my Sociology major back then. Around that time I think I was listening to too much DJ Spooky and his over intellectualised view of things – although no doubt there is something to that.

Respect should be given where it is due, and the roots of hip hop are due. Not to mention that the simplicity of jams in the 70’s still hold their appeal. The idea of a MC spitting to get a party flowing, with lines you can understand and speak to the situation will always be appealing to me. DnB parties take note.

I have dug white boy rap, backpacker rap, New York, west cost, east coast, French, Ozzie (are they calling it Skip Hop now?), Bay, UK, Bad Boy, Tommy Boy, Crunk & Screw, southern and so on.

Recently though, I have not really extended my reach. It has been a while, probably since Big Bun, Little Wayne and The Carter has a new sound taken me somewhere worth exploring. Maybe it is that all my tastes are mellowing. I do find myself listening to less big, dark, dirty beats and more smoothed out jazzy breaks in general. My Hip Hop seems to be more JBoogie and Jazz Liberators as well. And I have enjoyed exploring back catalogues of smokey jazzy hip hop that the 90’s early 2000’s did so well.

Hip Hop and Rap has touched every genre. From all the breakbeat styles to rock to chill, ever inch of POP and maintstream, to everything the UK has done, all electronica, spoken word even raps, intellectual… if its got a tune, or if it doesn’t – it’s been scratched or re-worked and spat on. Production game has gone next level time and time again – it has even gone back to low-fi Wu sound and back from the gutter to be clean. Every time Hip Hop moves other genres diversify and bite bits and pieces. It’s influence is everywhere (and while I am talking music here this also goes for Art, dance, language and many other areas of culture).

So has Hip Hop reached as far as it is going to go? Where is left?
What is there that is still fresh – or, just like it started out playing that same bit of the record time and time again, are we now on repeat?

Post by **system** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:53 pm

being at work keeps my response pretty brief: all i can say is that artists like madlib and kid cudi keep my faith alive in a sea of gilded turds.

same o · Post by **same o** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:13 pm

madlib is mad.

lots of 'wonky' hip hop is good. Mysty has a mad selection of wonky hip hop. I may be biased tho.

kiss & tell · Post by **kiss & tell** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:15 pm

I only like Eminem

respekt!

DBoy · Post by **DBoy** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:44 pm

Always liked mysty's taste in hip hop.

I'm not a big fan of the stutter edit stuff. Makes me feel nauseas.

Amick · Post by **Amick** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:59 pm

DBoy wrote:So has Hip Hop reached as far as it is going to go? Where is left?
What is there that is still fresh – or, just like it started out playing that same bit of the record time and time again, are we now on repeat?

Arrrrggghhhhh! This is my third and last attempt at posting in this most interesting thread (nice work Dboy) as my internets keeps cutting out.

Hip Hop is one of the most diverse genre's out there so to ask where it's going to go is futile as no one knows what lies ahead. Where is left is what Hip Hop does best, takes what is the current trend and uses that influence with a Hip Hop flavour or it could be an MC spitting over the instrumental

eg. Ras Kass spitting over Youth Blood Remix.

Another genre that is gaining huge momentum is the Futurebeat/Wonky or whatever you want to call it. As i'm well aware it isn't exactly Hip Hop most tracks are produced around the same BPM and even though it currently is mostly instrumental I won't be surprised as more and more MC's start to spit on these tunes. Artists i'm referring to here include Mono/Poly to Slugabed and everything in between.

My $0.02c

obliveus · Post by **obliveus** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:59 pm

Love hiphop...always have and always will.

I cant enter this debate with anything important, D, cuz I'm stuck in the past and like living in my time capsule.

Werd!!!

flippo · Post by **flippo** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:48 pm

wonky is so 2009, all about new underground beat head genera called 'quantizle' now.

wordclock

dyzlexic · Post by **dyzlexic** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:34 pm

I love hip hop and I firmly believe that the bar will always be raised. It will forever keep evolving just as it has since the early days. Every scene will always keep pushing itself, and now thanks to the internet, each other. Some of my favourite hip hop is French or Spanish even though I have absolutely no idea what the MCs are rhyming about. The vibe and energy are not language specific. Probably at the moment my favourite scene is English as alot of Aussie releases (and please, for the love of God DO NOT CALL IT SKIP HOP!) are a little generic. It's very easy to record a hip hop album nowadays so hence almost an overload of average releases worldwide.

Being an MC I do prefer hip hop with MCs but in saying that DJ/instrumental albums also have a very important place and are also some of my favourite albums (Shadow, Krush, RJD2 etc). The wonky glitchy stuff is awesome, it's like hip hop on acid and its heaps of fun to rhyme to. But I don't think this is necessarily the future as it will become it's own scene.

Rap (or what I call hip pop) is the arch nemesis of real hip hop artists because it caters for the mainstream and as long as people are making money nothing is going to change there. The mainstream doesn't want to think, they want what's easy to digest and alot of producers and labels have figured out what sells.

Nothing annoys me more than when people say things like "oh, so you're a rapper?" To me there is a massive difference between being a rapper and being an MC.

That's my thoughts.... Great thread Dboy

Post by **JAMESSSS** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:36 am

I like Hip Hop. It's like an old friend who I don't see enough but is always there for me regardless.

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:59 am

Massive hip-hop fan.

Not so keen on the wacked out stuff of Madlib et. al. - I prefer the 90's New York beats from the likes of Premo, Pete Rock, RZA, Muggs, (not NYC, but has that sound), Dilla (before he glitched out) etc etc... And I generally prefer it with a wicked, all-encompassing MC - someone who has story telling abilities, presence, flow, integrity and personality.

I can't entertain the notion that hip-hop might have reached as far as there is to go. The sky, people's imagination, technology, society and trends are the limit!

sneaky hands · Post by **sneaky hands** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:07 pm

dyzlexic wrote:To me there is a massive difference between being a rapper and being an MC.

What is the difference? A rapper raps, an MC works at weddings and bar mitzvahs. I'm being facetious, although I dislike the distinction you have touched on something important about hip hop - most rappers' live shows are frankly terrible.

In my opinion, hip hop as it's traditionally been defined peaked somewhere between 1988 and 1994. At that point a couple of things had occurred - for one, most of the greatest rappers of all time had already released records and invented the lexicon of hip hop, and secondly, copyright owners realised that hip hop arists were getting paid off of their samples and started to smell the money, thus encroaching on the creative freedom of producers.

Around 1996 we saw the division of hip hop into two clearly defined streams - the commercial side, spearheaded by labels like Bad Boy and Cash Money Records, and the backpacker side, exhibited on records like Lyricist Lounge and also crews like Anticon. Unfortunately both these streams produced a lot of really bad music, one in search of a quick buck, the other in search of experimentation (or art school chick pussy), and by 2001 or so the hip hop game was a complete mess.

I don't think it has ever recovered. Everything that we have now is derivative. It's telling that when new mixtapes come out, people get excited when they sound like "a new outkast" or "the best thing since Nas" rather than something completely new.

But then, there are only so many ways you can spit lyrics. And that's partly the nature of hip hop, a music that had its origins in re-using instrumentals and lyrics, with your own little twist on them.

To me, in 2010 hip hop is a stale artform, practised by some really talented people. Instrumentally, there are still a few interesting things happening (as mentioned above, madlib is one example although the man needs to learn that quality control > prolificacy), but lyrics wise, it's all been said before, and generally better.

Lephrenic · Post by **Lephrenic** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:14 pm

I've really tired of dnb and dubstep lately. Somehow hip hop keeps coming with surprises.

nic · Post by **nic** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:16 pm

dilla never glitched out afaik lol - champion sound is unsurpassed as a hiphop album imo. Shining is good as well.
madlib is profilic as much as he is overrated, in the last few years at least. too much average smashed together dusty samples.

i still love 90's / 2000's stuff - gfunk (warreng/natedogg), mobb deep (the infamous), dre (2001), wutang, nas etc.
that stuff was excellent (especially albumwise) and commercially sucessful.

nowdays more one hit bangerz than good albums in commercial hiphop these days just the way it is - however just because its commercial /hippop doenst mean its shit or the 'arch nemisis' of hiphop. thats a poor attitude, need m0@r b0nGz. what about someone like Kanye? Does good stuff, no denying may not be to your taste but he is pretty innovative/makes good music?

every now and again i hear a 'commericial' tune and buy it, but like D will dislike most of the artists other tunes (Ying Yang twins, David Banner etc - big 808s breathing noises and creepy synths xomg lol)

hiphop is such a huge broad genre its hard not to find something to like, loads of great instrumental stuff around as well. i bought quiet alot of 'wonky' stuff and likeit but prefer, when i can find it teh 'boom bap' kick snare sound withcut up samples done well.

Blaxter · Post by **Blaxter** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:37 pm

For me its all about Samoan Hip Hip.
King Kapisi forever.

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:49 pm

nic wrote:dilla never glitched out afaik lol

Maybe I'm not down with the terms of the times, but there's a big difference in mid-90's Dilla to his latter stuff... well there is to me anyway. One is straight up 90's NYC hip-hop, the other - 90's NYC hip-hop but with more dirt, grit and hallucinogens (or something). It's a lot more weird...

Mind you, I like the Champion Sound album.

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:00 pm

stuff I have liked lately includes boom bip and dose one - very experimental and not lyrically based but hip hop all the same...and im hearing a lot of local acts that could be described as hip hop without fitting into the norm, such as Toasters Boutique (electro/baillefunk/female MC - awesome) and High Society - funk band with 3 MC's, one with an angelic singing voice. Even the Phonies, who could be seen as a gimmicky comedy act almost, but they tunes are really catchy and their rhymes are really good! Where do these acts fit into the landscape? They are not straight up hip hop, and that is awesome.

I have also noticed that there are quite a few albums getting released of 'skip hop' (sorry Dyzlexic but that is a pretty good name for suburban based staunch aussie hip hop) and then not hearing about them again.
A while ago I talked with some of the dudes from Obese who wanted to hit that mainstream market as in, the really commercial radio stations, and all of us were unsure as to how this might occur. For all the mainstream RnB and 'rap' and other stuff, I just dont think this kind of aussie hip hop has much longevity or appeals to a wider audience.

I collect hip hop from other countries too, love the rhymes even if I dont know what they are saying, french and polish being my favorite, and a few asian albums i have for lots of giggles.

I am tired of most MC's over Dnb and dubstep - never really was a fan but tbh if you are saying 'yoyoyoyoyooy put ya hands in the air' more than once I think you should just shut up. That said, there is a handful who are interesting, articulate and who you can actually hear, and they definately have a place onstage.

Aside from the music itself, Im noticing a change in the 'attitude' of a lot of people in hip hop. There is a bit less tolerance for the sexist, racist and homophobic views that were once pretty synonymous with hip hop, and that can only be a good thing., I think they still exsist, but they are fast becoming the 'dinosaurs' of the scene and simply arent getting the props, the bookings or the deals that some of the more 'conscious' hip hop is, and thank fuck for that really.

good thread dboy.

nic · Post by **nic** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:23 pm

opps nearly forgot how much i love Clipse.
best

Watch the posted video on YouTube.

FRAKSHA... · Post by **FRAKSHA...** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:26 pm

bores the hell out of me nowadays, all too nice and friendly...last hip hop release i bought was Skinnymans 'Council estate of mind' god knows how long ago! The only guy who recently i've been feeling is Yelawolf, his 'Trunk Muzik' CD is pretty nuts!
There's a new scene emerging in London they're calling 'Road Rap' which certain guys i'm feeling.
Definitely not a fan of gimmicky hip hop or 'crossover' stuff, i'm just into the street stuff really. The M.O.P show at Espy a few months ago was one of the best shows i've been too
There's very few local acts i can get into, mainly cos i'm so over same old boom bap sounding beats and bare guys with no charisma when they spit
Grime is just a diff form of hip hop in my eyes really and its the most exciting mc led scene imo if you know whats going on and dont just judge it on a couple youtube clips

Justin Bieber is the future!

Nics - Clipse are heavy!

DBoy · Post by **DBoy** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:28 pm

Great post Sneaky and Nic - tipping where I was going with my chain of thought.

sneaky hands wrote:To me, in 2010 hip hop is a stale artform, practised by some really talented people. Instrumentally, there are still a few interesting things happening (as mentioned above, madlib is one example although the man needs to learn that quality control > prolificacy), but lyrics wise, it's all been said before, and generally better.

Surely with the diversity of stuff out there, someone, somewhere, some dope shit is dropping that would tantalise our tastes? Having just found something like J-Boogie which has been around for years I find myself saying - 'how did i not know about this?'

To call Hip Hop a stale artform is a big call Sneaky, one I am willing to make in the hope that is stirs some shit and shows me I am wrong.

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:29 pm

Got Mantra's new LP yesterday - very nice. Recommended.

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:37 pm

Gotta mention Lupe fiasco too.
His live show was anything from rock to punk to ska beats, hip hop and pop all together, and it was sold out, full of young triple J listeners. no purism there and a huge market for it.

sneaky hands · Post by **sneaky hands** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:56 pm

ghetto kitty wrote:Gotta mention Lupe fiasco too.
His live show was anything from rock to punk to ska beats, hip hop and pop all together, and it was sold out, full of young triple J listeners. no purism there and a huge market for it.

the interesting thing is that you could be describing a hip hop party in the early 80s (minus the triple J listeners).

Amick · Post by **Amick** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:09 pm

Direkt wrote:Got Mantra's new LP yesterday - very nice. Recommended.

Watch the posted video on YouTube.

FRAKSHA... · Post by **FRAKSHA...** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:25 pm

forgot to mention M-Phazes, top Aus release of the year! The beats are nuts and the launch at the Espy a couple weeks back was a masterclass in how to put on a show. Seriously next level! Que round the block at 8pm and an absolutely fucking rammed Gershin room

same o · Post by **same o** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:30 pm

FRAKSHA... wrote: Grime is just a diff form of hip hop in my eyes really and its the most exciting mc led scene imo if you know whats going on and dont just judge it on a couple youtube clips

there is a grime scene outside youtube?????

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:33 pm

FRAKSHA... wrote:forgot to mention M-Phazes, top Aus release of the year! The beats are nuts and the launch at the Espy a couple weeks back was a masterclass in how to put on a show. Seriously next level! Que round the block at 8pm and an absolutely fucking rammed Gershin room

Certainly a wicked album - a lot of talent on display.

nic · Post by **nic** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:36 pm

sameo havent you seen 'rollerskating skepta' lol?

aroes · Post by **aroes** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:37 pm

FRAKSHA... wrote:forgot to mention M-Phazes, top Aus release of the year! The beats are nuts and the launch at the Espy a couple weeks back was a masterclass in how to put on a show. Seriously next level! Que round the block at 8pm and an absolutely fucking rammed Gershin room

everyone goes on and on about m phazes.....he's got a few decent things but imo alot of it is pretty weak (i know he's done beats for you fraksha, not trying to diss mate)

when it comes to australian producers, for me katalyst is the one, each and every time......big fat horns and bare funky drums, everything of his i've heard is pure class, gutted i can't get along to the space:invadas launch at the toff

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:40 pm

aroes wrote:
FRAKSHA... wrote:forgot to mention M-Phazes, top Aus release of the year! The beats are nuts and the launch at the Espy a couple weeks back was a masterclass in how to put on a show. Seriously next level! Que round the block at 8pm and an absolutely fucking rammed Gershin room
everyone goes on and on about m phazes.....he's got a few decent things but imo alot of it is pretty weak (i know he's done beats for you fraksha, not trying to diss mate)

when it comes to australian producers, for me katalyst is the one, each and every time......big fat horns and bare funky drums, everything of his i've heard is pure class, gutted i can't get along to the space:invadas launch at the toff

M-Phazes gets an amazing sound out of his productions that is classy.

My favourite local producer is Plutonic Lab. 'Codes Over Colours' and some of Pegz' new stuff is amazing.

aroes · Post by **aroes** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:43 pm

Direkt wrote:
aroes wrote:
FRAKSHA... wrote:forgot to mention M-Phazes, top Aus release of the year! The beats are nuts and the launch at the Espy a couple weeks back was a masterclass in how to put on a show. Seriously next level! Que round the block at 8pm and an absolutely fucking rammed Gershin room
everyone goes on and on about m phazes.....he's got a few decent things but imo alot of it is pretty weak (i know he's done beats for you fraksha, not trying to diss mate)

when it comes to australian producers, for me katalyst is the one, each and every time......big fat horns and bare funky drums, everything of his i've heard is pure class, gutted i can't get along to the space:invadas launch at the toff
M-Phazes gets an amazing sound out of his productions that is classy.

My favourite local producer is Plutonic Lab. 'Codes Over Colours' and some of Pegz' new stuff is amazing.

Fair call Direkt, just not my cuppa is all

Agree 100% on Plutonic Lab though, very nice stuff

sneaky hands · Post by **sneaky hands** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:51 pm

My favourite hip hop release in the last year or so would have to be the G-side tape, Huntsville International Project.

FRAKSHA... · Post by **FRAKSHA...** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:52 pm

aroes wrote:
FRAKSHA... wrote:forgot to mention M-Phazes, top Aus release of the year! The beats are nuts and the launch at the Espy a couple weeks back was a masterclass in how to put on a show. Seriously next level! Que round the block at 8pm and an absolutely fucking rammed Gershin room
everyone goes on and on about m phazes.....he's got a few decent things but imo alot of it is pretty weak (i know he's done beats for you fraksha, not trying to diss mate)

when it comes to australian producers, for me katalyst is the one, each and every time......big fat horns and bare funky drums, everything of his i've heard is pure class, gutted i can't get along to the space:invadas launch at the toff

nah thats all good mate, all opinions...personally i dont think anyone in this country comes anywhere near him whcih i think would explain his international success as well. I firmly believe he;s gonna one of the top guys in hip hop within a few years. He's got some dope stuff with M.O.P and he's done half of Pharaoe Monch's upcoming album which i think is gonna be big things for him

I think everyone 'goes on and on' about him cos his shit is so monstrous! When he won that event in Texas (i think thats where it was) last year the judges included greats like Premier, Ninth Wonder, Toomp, Pete Rock and they were all on his dick!

FRAKSHA... · Post by **FRAKSHA...** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:53 pm

nic wrote:sameo havent you seen 'rollerskating skepta' lol?

lol, thats jokes! Search youtube for 'Shadrack and the mandem' as well : )

FRAKSHA... · Post by **FRAKSHA...** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:54 pm

same o wrote:
FRAKSHA... wrote: Grime is just a diff form of hip hop in my eyes really and its the most exciting mc led scene imo if you know whats going on and dont just judge it on a couple youtube clips

there is a grime scene outside youtube?????
quote]
probably not anymore!
http://www.harrowtimes.co.uk/news/80944 ... _shooting/
funny thing is this was a funky rave, but put on by grimedaily so will get bare negative pres for grime and ensure theres no more events!

nic · Post by **nic** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:02 pm

Watch the posted video on YouTube.

x 119329882733

dotn know anything about aust hiphop anymore tbh. going to check out mphaze.
like this tune, always liked giggs. gets put down for having the slowest laziest flattest delivery but.

Watch the posted video on YouTube.

Post by **system** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:23 pm

Watch the posted video on YouTube.

still rocks out

ShiKung · Post by **ShiKung** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:41 pm

Uk Rapper's TY's new album is going to tear shit up

DBoy · Post by **DBoy** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:09 pm

system wrote:Hudson Hawk clip[/youtube]

still rocks out

What has that got to do with Hip Hop?

aroes · Post by **aroes** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:26 pm

lol maybe meant to post in the wuture/fonky thread

Lephrenic · Post by **Lephrenic** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:43 pm

Personally I think hip hop is more innovative now than dnb, dubstep or any other dance genre IMO. Some of the groups I'm digging the most include Dalek, Shadow Huntaz, Prefuse73 and Sixtoo. Some might say "but they're not strictly hip hop" and I'd say that's precisely their strength. For starters, they avoid the biggest trap that dance genres fall into, being stuck in one style at one tempo. Ultimately any appreciation of innovation or freshness in music ends up being dependent on how broad a listener's horizons can be.

nic · Post by **nic** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:10 pm

shadow huntaz are sick. big weird original beats

sneaky hands · Post by **sneaky hands** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:07 pm

Lephrenic wrote:Personally I think hip hop is more innovative now than dnb, dubstep or any other dance genre IMO. Some of the groups I'm digging the most include Dalek, Shadow Huntaz, Prefuse73 and Sixtoo. Some might say "but they're not strictly hip hop" and I'd say that's precisely their strength. For starters, they avoid the biggest trap that dance genres fall into, being stuck in one style at one tempo. Ultimately any appreciation of innovation or freshness in music ends up being dependent on how broad a listener's horizons can be.

Definitely true. More adventurous music producers like those you mentioned are definitely pushing the envelope, and you will find artists like those on the fringes (or even sometimes smack bang in the middle) of many of genres of music, including the ones you have criticised. For example, have a listen to dbridge and instramental's recent fabriclive mix, or calibre's LP released under the dominick martin moniker late last year, and youll see what i mean with regards to dnb. As you say though, the artists you mention arent strictly hip hop, although I do remember sixtoo dropping a quite enjoyable track about graf back pre 2000 that was extremely nerdy, but definitely straight up rhymes over beats.
Veering into wanked-out genre-classification territory, I'm tempted to specify that when I talk about hip hop, I'm talking about rhymes over beats. I would call instrumental "hip hop" style music drum and bass, or breaks, depending on my mood.

DBoy · Post by **DBoy** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:53 pm

Some tunes who add to the conversation better than I can...

Watch the posted video on YouTube.

Amick · Post by **Amick** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:14 am

^^^reminds me of this...

Watch the posted video on YouTube.

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:12 am

DBoy wrote:Some tunes who add to the conversation better than I can...

Watch the posted video on YouTube.

Sounds like some Jazzmatazz.

Post by **JAMESSSS** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:49 am

sneaky hands wrote:I would call instrumental "hip hop" style music drum and bass, or breaks, depending on my mood.

Not so sure about this?

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:54 am

^ agreed

As much as I don't like the term - rap would refer more too MC'ing with beats, whereas a hip-hop could be instrumental or vocal versions IMO (as well as a whole host of other things).

DBoy · Post by **DBoy** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:56 am

I would use Hip Hop as the over arching term - Rap being tunes with an MC, Beats being tunes without.

nic · Post by **nic** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:31 am

when is detox coming out dre? best be FUCKING AWSOMEEEE