Remember to look at this from an outsider's perspective. We are already in the culture... the problem is attracting new people into dnb for whatever reasons are keeping people away.
Voting is anonymous for those who'd rather not pipe in conversations.
Keep it positive.
What will it take to revive dnb and bring new people into it
-
universal sea
- Posts: 1929
- Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:33 pm
- Location: the edge
- Contact:
Hmmmm
well lets look at some of the reasons I have walked away from D&B on occasion. Take 33 1/3 on NYD. I really wanted to see marky, but I took one look at the Gershwin Room which was way crowded, incredibley dark, and incredibley hot and I said "no way" and walked in the other direction. And this is for a DJ I already wanted to see.
If I think about the "limited" D&B gigs I have seen there seems to be a proclivity to make them very dark, very hot, and very loud. And hey, that seems to work for the kids that really love their D&B, but if we are talking about reaching beyond this audience (which I believe is the point of this thread) then I would argue these things will be barriers.
well lets look at some of the reasons I have walked away from D&B on occasion. Take 33 1/3 on NYD. I really wanted to see marky, but I took one look at the Gershwin Room which was way crowded, incredibley dark, and incredibley hot and I said "no way" and walked in the other direction. And this is for a DJ I already wanted to see.
If I think about the "limited" D&B gigs I have seen there seems to be a proclivity to make them very dark, very hot, and very loud. And hey, that seems to work for the kids that really love their D&B, but if we are talking about reaching beyond this audience (which I believe is the point of this thread) then I would argue these things will be barriers.
He's climbing in your windows, he's snatching your people up.
-
witty_pseudonym
- Posts: 11779
- Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:53 am
- Location: betwixt and between
farkenmrj wrote:Hmmmm
well lets look at some of the reasons I have walked away from D&B on occasion. Take 33 1/3 on NYD. I really wanted to see marky, but I took one look at the Gershwin Room which was way crowded, incredibley dark, and incredibley hot and I said "no way" and walked in the other direction. And this is for a DJ I already wanted to see.
If I think about the "limited" D&B gigs I have seen there seems to be a proclivity to make them very dark, very hot, and very loud. And hey, that seems to work for the kids that really love their D&B, but if we are talking about reaching beyond this audience (which I believe is the point of this thread) then I would argue these things will be barriers.
...
j) more threads on mbc 
myspace / too much! / photos (flickr) / photos (tumblr)
aroes wrote:promising, but lost me at offensive mid range snarl
-
saintberry
- Posts: 1259
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:17 pm
Yeah I agree.mrj wrote:Hmmmm
well lets look at some of the reasons I have walked away from D&B on occasion. Take 33 1/3 on NYD. I really wanted to see marky, but I took one look at the Gershwin Room which was way crowded, incredibley dark, and incredibley hot and I said "no way" and walked in the other direction. And this is for a DJ I already wanted to see.
If I think about the "limited" D&B gigs I have seen there seems to be a proclivity to make them very dark, very hot, and very loud. And hey, that seems to work for the kids that really love their D&B, but if we are talking about reaching beyond this audience (which I believe is the point of this thread) then I would argue these things will be barriers.
I think there is too much focus on big party's. Too many internationals who really aren't that impressive and cost too much. IMO that focus is counter productive to building a community, which is what you need to grow a scene. Friends getting friends down, on a weekly basis continually getting exposed to more music. Not just prodigy remixes or new unheard dubplates.
You need weekly events that are accessible and cheap, even free. A place where people can drink, socialise and listen to new/good music without writing oneself off for the next day/week/party.
At the very least party's like that should be backups to internationals.
90% of people stumbling down Swanston St don't know who Ed Rush & Optical are, so why would they pay money to go and see them unless dragged along with a friend?
Anyway, that and more Pendulum haha.
First you get her name. Then you get her number. Then you get some get some in the back seat of a hummer!
pendulum parties (advertised as 'PENDULUM (UK)', and charged for as such), and andy c, made a mint. blazin's dead.saintberry wrote:I think there is too much focus on big party's. Too many internationals who really aren't that impressive and cost too much. IMO that focus is counter productive to building a community, which is what you need to grow a scene. Friends getting friends down, on a weekly basis continually getting exposed to more music. Not just prodigy remixes or new unheard dubplates.
-
saintberry
- Posts: 1259
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:17 pm
I don't think that anything in popular culture is sustainable. Not at the same level.
This relates to anything. Be it YoYo's, Pet Rocks, Skateboards, Progressive House, or Star Wars. It's inevitable that things will wax and wane. Its called the product life cycle kids.
Maccas learnt this years ago, you don't wait until a product reaches saturation point, in fact, you pull it off the market just before it hits the height of its popularity. That way you leave people hanging and you can bring said product back again. and again. and again.
I've often thought with regards to electronic music in Melbourne, the "scene" would actually benefit from less parties, not more. Space parties out a bit more, turn them into real events that people get really excited about.
Weekly events inevitably get pretty tired, because hey, they are weekly and it becomes a bit of same old same old. Especially in Melbourne, despite the fact that we have lots of enthusastic punters (per capita at least) we still have to face the facts that this is a city of only 3.25 million people, and thus there are limits imposed by scale (or lack thereof).
This relates to anything. Be it YoYo's, Pet Rocks, Skateboards, Progressive House, or Star Wars. It's inevitable that things will wax and wane. Its called the product life cycle kids.
Maccas learnt this years ago, you don't wait until a product reaches saturation point, in fact, you pull it off the market just before it hits the height of its popularity. That way you leave people hanging and you can bring said product back again. and again. and again.
I've often thought with regards to electronic music in Melbourne, the "scene" would actually benefit from less parties, not more. Space parties out a bit more, turn them into real events that people get really excited about.
Weekly events inevitably get pretty tired, because hey, they are weekly and it becomes a bit of same old same old. Especially in Melbourne, despite the fact that we have lots of enthusastic punters (per capita at least) we still have to face the facts that this is a city of only 3.25 million people, and thus there are limits imposed by scale (or lack thereof).
He's climbing in your windows, he's snatching your people up.
It'll take promo that costs a lot more than the first 10 or so parties can hope to recover, sexy tunes, djs who look excited rather than dead, anthems and people stopping being so hostile to youger crowd entering the scene, and a new wave of for the love of it crew promoters.
And then a lot more too.
And then a lot more too.
Don't hate me for house
Word. This ain't London or New York. We don't have that extra few millions of people who are also in to beats. We have maybe a thousand. 100 of which have internet access and post here. The rest, probably don't care so much. Who fucking knows.mrj wrote:I've often thought with regards to electronic music in Melbourne, the "scene" would actually benefit from less parties, not more. Space parties out a bit more, turn them into real events that people get really excited about.
Weekly events inevitably get pretty tired, because hey, they are weekly and it becomes a bit of same old same old. Especially in Melbourne, despite the fact that we have lots of enthusastic punters (per capita at least) we still have to face the facts that this is a city of only 3.25 million people, and thus there are limits imposed by scale (or lack thereof).
We understand this with ANYTIME and try not to make it EVERYTIME but we can't help that we're shit and just like to drink. Anyway.
jbs wrote: djs who look excited rather than dead
this is my major issue with dj's from all genres
too many standing up there like it's a chore with a face like a smacked arse- it's not a good reflection at all
gimme someone who's farking loving it or has a smile on their dial- ie carl cox and more recently yoda and that makes me love the tunes more
i love watching someone love what they do
and also agree- there's so much on and for those of is who do cross genres, it's a struggle between going to a breaks gig with my crew that i know'll be off the hook, or go and check a dubstep, DnB or minimal night which also appeals
some weekends there's 3 or 4 things on the same night and to be honest i usually just go where i'm most comfortable
i think the breaks crew in particular crosses genres quite a bit however
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind - Dr. Seuss
Good point.lynt wrote:Word. This ain't London or New York. We don't have that extra few millions of people who are also in to beats. We have maybe a thousand. 100 of which have internet access and post here. The rest, probably don't care so much. Who fucking knows.mrj wrote:I've often thought with regards to electronic music in Melbourne, the "scene" would actually benefit from less parties, not more. Space parties out a bit more, turn them into real events that people get really excited about.
Weekly events inevitably get pretty tired, because hey, they are weekly and it becomes a bit of same old same old. Especially in Melbourne, despite the fact that we have lots of enthusastic punters (per capita at least) we still have to face the facts that this is a city of only 3.25 million people, and thus there are limits imposed by scale (or lack thereof).
We understand this with ANYTIME and try not to make it EVERYTIME but we can't help that we're shit and just like to drink. Anyway.
And Fents, ease up tiger... Most elderly folk don't go out midweek, and I'm not going to feel guilty about that, I'm not at uni anymore mate. Got responsibilities etc...
No shit.Direktor wrote:Good point.lynt wrote:Word. This ain't London or New York. We don't have that extra few millions of people who are also in to beats. We have maybe a thousand. 100 of which have internet access and post here. The rest, probably don't care so much. Who fucking knows.mrj wrote:I've often thought with regards to electronic music in Melbourne, the "scene" would actually benefit from less parties, not more. Space parties out a bit more, turn them into real events that people get really excited about.
Weekly events inevitably get pretty tired, because hey, they are weekly and it becomes a bit of same old same old. Especially in Melbourne, despite the fact that we have lots of enthusastic punters (per capita at least) we still have to face the facts that this is a city of only 3.25 million people, and thus there are limits imposed by scale (or lack thereof).
We understand this with ANYTIME and try not to make it EVERYTIME but we can't help that we're shit and just like to drink. Anyway.
And Fents, ease up tiger... Most elderly folk don't go out midweek, and I'm not going to feel guilty about that, I'm not at uni anymore mate. Got responsibilities etc...
All the old men of d'n'b might need to tag out some younger uns.Fents wrote:No shit.Direktor wrote:Good point.lynt wrote: Word. This ain't London or New York. We don't have that extra few millions of people who are also in to beats. We have maybe a thousand. 100 of which have internet access and post here. The rest, probably don't care so much. Who fucking knows.
We understand this with ANYTIME and try not to make it EVERYTIME but we can't help that we're shit and just like to drink. Anyway.
And Fents, ease up tiger... Most elderly folk don't go out midweek, and I'm not going to feel guilty about that, I'm not at uni anymore mate. Got responsibilities etc...
I've been hitting Lounge on Thursdays on average once a fortnight snce I moved here. I was never a spoilt uni kid or anything, pretty much have to go to work every Friday. Is this endemic of a lot of people, have we all decided to grow up and focus on other areas of our life with no fresh blood coming through to replace peeps who aren't going out as much.
REgardless, any one who cries the scene is dead needs to themselves and melbourne d'n'b a favour and get down to Matrix.
-
Lizkins
- Junior Vice President
- Posts: 17099
- Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:09 pm
- Location: Never never land
gnat wrote:jbs wrote: djs who look excited rather than dead
this is my major issue with dj's from all genres
too many standing up there like it's a chore with a face like a smacked arse- it's not a good reflection at all
gimme someone who's farking loving it or has a smile on their dial- ie carl cox and more recently yoda and that makes me love the tunes more
i love watching someone love what they do
and also agree- there's so much on and for those of is who do cross genres, it's a struggle between going to a breaks gig with my crew that i know'll be off the hook, or go and check a dubstep, DnB or minimal night which also appeals
some weekends there's 3 or 4 things on the same night and to be honest i usually just go where i'm most comfortable
i think the breaks crew in particular crosses genres quite a bit however
to that, one of the best nights hands down was John B because the man bloody rocked out with the crowd and was a funny posser and could careless....plus he rocked it on the decks and pumped the crowd to boot. OUTSTANDING!!!!-
system
- let the hustlers play
- Posts: 10126
- Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:27 pm
- Location: the leave garden
Fents wrote:Even better - everyone cruise down to lounge TONIGHT and watch Fikuss and Keir rinse it downstairs.
Oh thats right its mid week thursday i forgot DnB heads dont leave home till 1am sat morning.
So very very very true.
DRS wrote:It’s uplifting while we drift through time,
‘cause we keep pushing the vibe.
I still have fabulous flashbacks to what a great night that was, how fun he was, how his selection was fresh & fun as... but also meeting him the night before @ goldie. Actually Goldie was fun too... that weekend was awesome! Maybe the accessories were good too! But that weekend was GOLD GOLD. More flamboyancy..... I so look forward to John B! return!lizkins wrote:one of the best nights hands down was John B because the man bloody rocked out with the crowd and was a funny posser and could careless....plus he rocked it on the decks and pumped the crowd to boot. OUTSTANDING!!!!
-
Lizkins
- Junior Vice President
- Posts: 17099
- Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:09 pm
- Location: Never never land
system wrote:Fents wrote:Even better - everyone cruise down to lounge TONIGHT and watch Fikuss and Keir rinse it downstairs.
Oh thats right its mid week thursday i forgot DnB heads dont leave home till 1am sat morning.
So very very very true.
not where i am concerned these days. i want to be there early to go home early to bed so i don't waste away the whole next day.
Bastard was trying to pick my missus up there!ulyssian wrote:I still have fabulous flashbacks to what a great night that was, how fun he was, how his selection was fresh & fun as... but also meeting him the night before @ goldie. Actually Goldie was fun too... that weekend was awesome! Maybe the accessories were good too! But that weekend was GOLD GOLD. More flamboyancy..... I so look forward to John B! return!lizkins wrote:one of the best nights hands down was John B because the man bloody rocked out with the crowd and was a funny posser and could careless....plus he rocked it on the decks and pumped the crowd to boot. OUTSTANDING!!!!
Re: DNB heads don't leave home till 1am. That's coz the internatty's/headliners don't hit stage till 2am... At that Goldie @ Espie gig, Roger tried running headliners earlier to a great success... I have no idea why gigs have to be so late, actually stops me from going out sometimes - I'm asleep come midnight!
ahemmrj wrote: we still have to face the facts that this is a city of only 3.25 million people
VICTORIA
Population of 4,917,400.
Melbourne population 3,559,700, up 46,600 people.
Largest growth was in the Melbourne suburban fringe LGAs of Casey (up 10,900 people), Wyndham (up 7,300 people) and Melton (up 6,900 people).
Melton recorded highest growth rate of all local government areas in Australia, up 11.8%.
Growth was recorded in regional centres of Geelong (up 2,500 people), Bendigo (up 1,500 people) and Ballarat (up 1,400 people).
http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/[email protected] ... enDocument
Yeah you're spot on mate, on both accounts.
Nobody goes there to see the locals and yes the Espie closes early - but by scheduling the internatty on earlier, perhaps people will hang back for some locals following the headliner... Other than that, maybe drink specials, or cheaper entry early on (ala Fractured)... Dunno.
I like getting to the club to watch a couple of locals before the guest DJ hits stage - get me in the mood etc...
Nobody goes there to see the locals and yes the Espie closes early - but by scheduling the internatty on earlier, perhaps people will hang back for some locals following the headliner... Other than that, maybe drink specials, or cheaper entry early on (ala Fractured)... Dunno.
I like getting to the club to watch a couple of locals before the guest DJ hits stage - get me in the mood etc...
This is true. We wonder why the London scene is so vibrant - they're all superstar DJ's & producers. Melbourne needs to support it's own - superstar or not.ac23 wrote:Its because no one gives two fucks about local DJs man.Direktor wrote:Bastard was trying to pick my missus up there!ulyssian wrote:
Re: DNB heads don't leave home till 1am. That's coz the internatty's/headliners don't hit stage till 2am... At that Goldie @ Espie gig, Roger tried running headliners earlier to a great success... I have no idea why gigs have to be so late, actually stops me from going out sometimes - I'm asleep come midnight!
I'd agree with this.Direktor wrote:Yeah you're spot on mate, on both accounts.
Nobody goes there to see the locals and yes the Espie closes early - but by scheduling the internatty on earlier, perhaps people will hang back for some locals following the headliner... Other than that, maybe drink specials, or cheaper entry early on (ala Fractured)... Dunno.
I like getting to the club to watch a couple of locals before the guest DJ hits stage - get me in the mood etc...
I often bemoan the start times. I mean, when Phil K is playing at Brown Alley and comes on at 2 or 3 and plays to 5, well that means that I have to stay until 5 in the morning to watch his entire set. That kinds sucks.
I would much much rather that the party starts at 8 and the headliner comes on at, say, 10.00 or 11.00. Then I could be tucked up in bed come 2 oclock and have a normal saturday, sunday, whatever.
He's climbing in your windows, he's snatching your people up.
Mate, I get there early - I like seeing the locals... I'm just offering an explanation for the myriads of other DNB heads... What other reason would they have for not turning up till 1am?Joe Seven wrote:But isnt clubbing about music? there's drum & bass music being played from 10pm by the very locals that everyone says they love so much at every party.Direktor wrote:[
Re: DNB heads don't leave home till 1am. That's coz the internatty's/headliners don't hit stage till 2am...
So the question is how do we get people down early? Perhaps move one local to after the main act, other than before hand... or, offer an incentive to get there early... be it cheaper entry, cheaper drinks or whatever. Just an idea...
me too. can do big ones irregularly and be out all night but these days it's not about the mash on for me anymore although i still love the tunes and seeing everyone when i'm out. 3am licenses are good in some ways becoz even if i am out till stumps i can still sleep and have some sort of a day the next daymrj wrote:I would much much rather that the party starts at 8 and the headliner comes on at, say, 10.00 or 11.00. Then I could be tucked up in bed come 2 oclock and have a normal saturday, sunday, whatever.
i'm getting old! and i'm bloody tired. it's time for the younguns to take the reigns and reprezent until 7am
wed and thurs night gigs- forget about it. just can't do it with work the next day. if it was something really big i'd take the next day off but dragging myself out to support locals on a school night is not going to happen for me. weeknights are for uni students and shift workers
weekend gigs though, i always head out early to support the locals pre the internattys
we have a scene largely supported by old skool reprezenters. i know our crew is slowing up with the benders. it's inevitable. but where are the freshies to take over our shift? i've been hitting it solid for ten years. i've done mine. it's weekends only for me and at a slower pace
re the timing thing, tis funny bcoz it's true- we'd be leaving brown alley at 4am after being there since 11 and the DnB kids'd be coming up the stairs as we left
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind - Dr. Seuss
I reacon Melb needs a weekly night dedicated to ALL styles of DnB...Not just the same 3 DJ's every week.
New and exciting Internationals...so many people round the world writing interesting beats man. Lets bring these people to Australia...Biggups BBA tho. Bringing varying styles of DnB.
"The gates open...step thru"
New and exciting Internationals...so many people round the world writing interesting beats man. Lets bring these people to Australia...Biggups BBA tho. Bringing varying styles of DnB.
"The gates open...step thru"
in theory this is a great idea ... but for venues it doesn't work.mrj wrote:
I often bemoan the start times. I mean, when Phil K is playing at Brown Alley and comes on at 2 or 3 and plays to 5, well that means that I have to stay until 5 in the morning to watch his entire set. That kinds sucks.
.
obviously venues want to maximise the amount of time ppl are in the venue ... hence putting headliners on late (say 2-5) ... the idea is people turn up early to get in (say 11) ... have 3 hours of time to spend money ... then the intl turns up and you have healthy turnover.
the only alternative is doing gigs like rock gigs - support at 9, support at 10, headliner at 11:30 ... home at 1am. Would this work?
I guess it's futile because forums consenus is generally a gross misrepresentation of a true scene.
Well we're talking about inernationals here. And most venues are hired, so who really cares what they'd prefer... Hi-Fi for example is used for shitloads of rock gigs - more than dance... So that idea is moot as far as I can see Shep.shepherd wrote:in theory this is a great idea ... but for venues it doesn't work.mrj wrote:
I often bemoan the start times. I mean, when Phil K is playing at Brown Alley and comes on at 2 or 3 and plays to 5, well that means that I have to stay until 5 in the morning to watch his entire set. That kinds sucks.
.
obviously venues want to maximise the amount of time ppl are in the venue ... hence putting headliners on late (say 2-5) ... the idea is people turn up early to get in (say 11) ... have 3 hours of time to spend money ... then the intl turns up and you have healthy turnover.
the only alternative is doing gigs like rock gigs - support at 9, support at 10, headliner at 11:30 ... home at 1am. Would this work?
I guess it's futile because forums consenus is generally a gross misrepresentation of a true scene.
And I see no reason it wouldn't work... nobody's gonna fork out the $$$ for an internatty and then not turn up to see them. Rock does it, hip-hop does it - why does dance have to be so different, particularly dnb?
Why not put the headliner on a little earlier and if people want to rock out afterwards, the option is there with local support... I'm sure people would hang around if it's a good night.
-
Lizkins
- Junior Vice President
- Posts: 17099
- Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:09 pm
- Location: Never never land
Direktor wrote:Mate, I get there early - I like seeing the locals... I'm just offering an explanation for the myriads of other DNB heads... What other reason would they have for not turning up till 1am?Joe Seven wrote:But isnt clubbing about music? there's drum & bass music being played from 10pm by the very locals that everyone says they love so much at every party.Direktor wrote:[
Re: DNB heads don't leave home till 1am. That's coz the internatty's/headliners don't hit stage till 2am...
So the question is how do we get people down early? Perhaps move one local to after the main act, other than before hand... or, offer an incentive to get there early... be it cheaper entry, cheaper drinks or whatever. Just an idea...
i have seen so many Melb local dnb dudes rock out on the decks....countless times. Even the ones who continually get booked over and over and over and over and over again, i still see em before the headliner.
I would go to so many more gigs if they were on earlier. This old lady cant handle all nighters anymore! Can't waste my weekends been wasted anymore. I just find it's a struggle stayin up til 6am. Like nat i've been in the d&b scene partying for 10years, that equals tired and almost jaded!
These are the days of our lolz
yep definatly more early gigs, even daily gigs to rock out to.
I know the local dj's here are quality and hold some quality nights too, but i dont think many ppl want to rock out till 5am with no internatty.
If i know im not going to be cactus the next day from lack of sleep, i would head to a lot more local nights.
and yeah on John B. why can't more dj's put on a show like that, it is all about performance. I think this explains why Andy C is so huge, apart from being insane at mixing, he fully gets into the music and the crowd feed off it.
I know the local dj's here are quality and hold some quality nights too, but i dont think many ppl want to rock out till 5am with no internatty.
If i know im not going to be cactus the next day from lack of sleep, i would head to a lot more local nights.
and yeah
on John B. why can't more dj's put on a show like that, it is all about performance. I think this explains why Andy C is so huge, apart from being insane at mixing, he fully gets into the music and the crowd feed off it.day party is the new black- sleep in, go for beers at 2, hit the party till 10-12pm and head home to sleep
wicked day, normal sleep pattern and no disruption to weekend life- up the next day before midday and get stuff done instead of sleeping all day
plenty of time to sleep when you're dead
wicked day, normal sleep pattern and no disruption to weekend life- up the next day before midday and get stuff done instead of sleeping all day
plenty of time to sleep when you're dead
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind - Dr. Seuss