Sony Hi-MD hitting rock bottom $$!

Rob M · Post by **Rob M** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:20 am

http://www.minidisc.com.au/default.php?cPath=1_47

check these prices and the bundle pack you get!!!

i know there are still MD fans out there who swear by their live recordings

i'm considering getting one now for various usage reasons. mainly data and something to throw around.

1GB per disc for $4.95 isn't too shabby. Just ATRAC format is a bit iffy for my liking.

anyone know if the loading mechanisms still screw up on these? I remember my good ol' Mz-R50 model back in the day. the freaking MD wouldn't load because the loading mechanism was stuffed. I hope sony has sorted this.

What y'all reckon?

ebay will be hot for sure the next couple weeks. heh

DC · Post by DC » Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:33 am

Mate - I got a few MD players and a shitload of discs.....I can sell them to you in a 'bundle' as well.....HA!

Post by **fooishbar** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:21 am

As for the loading mechanism, I think they fixed that problem as of the R90 or so: never had any problems with my beautiful R900. Well, up until I dropped it on to concrete at 4am one night, shattering the LCD, cracking the mainboard, and displacing several other components. Argh!

saintberry · Post by **saintberry** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:53 am

sony is going to discontinue all MD very soon. or so my audio production lecturer tells me. now would be the time to buy up cheap.

i love how old skool they are, been round since the 80s...its a wonder they didnt take off.

man sony has had some hard luck with shizz like that. invested all this money in VCD encoding, only for people not to want to have their home computer as the centre of their entertainment centre. post dvd boom...whats looking to be the next big things...media centre computers of course.

aspekt · Post by **aspekt** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:50 pm

i love my minidisk. i've got an mzr-900 that i've had for ages.
the format is cool, the little disks feel so pro and futuristic. if sony had played their cards right, minidisks coulda been what ipods are now. When i got my minidisk, mp3 players were hella spensive for like 128mb which is fuck all music. the idea of cheap and sturdy removable media really appealed to me as well as the huge battery life (like a week or more using the gumstick li-ion and external aa) in comparison to the pathetic 10 hours or so of an ipod. It was perfect for recording live sets and it was easy to make mix tapes and swap them with my friends.
the 1GB would be awesome and i'm tempted to get one.
sony manage to shoot themselves in the foot with a lot of things (betamax being a poignant example). the netMD models seem to have all sorts of issues by sony using some really shitty software with a pathetic attempt at DRM.

johnnynostars · Post by **johnnynostars** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:12 pm

I was naughty and just bought a Hi-MD and the 20 pack of Hi-MD disks. Those prices are soooo cheap.

I do lurve the minidisc though!

The upload thing looks good:

Advanced Microphone recordings with PC uploads
In addition to the popular PC to MD download function that was already available on "Net MD", with "Hi-MD", it is now possible to upload music data to a computer. A transfer speed of up to 100x* real-time makes network music even better.
By using "Hi-MD" compatible software "SonicStage*", you can upload music recorded on a disc to a computer. The ability to transfer data to other discs from the computer increases usage versatility.
Now you can record your lectures, interviews, band practices and any other microphone recordings onto your Hi-MD and upload them back onto the PC.
Your Hi-MD walkman has some great functions for your microphone recordings; it comes featured with a microphone power input, the ability to change the recording levels, auto track marking and enjoy the long battery life of your walkman.
Further to this you can also record in a uncompressed mode to sustain the highest possible audio quality.
Linear PCM mode is compatible with digital, analog, and microphone recording; you can record and play back in high quality sound, without compressing the original sound source. This function can be used in various ways such as recording a music performance.
* Transfer speed from a computer to "Hi-MD" with ATRAC3plus at 48kbps.
* "SonicStage" bundled with "Hi-MD" products, supports this functionality.

Rob M · Post by **Rob M** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:17 pm

DC wrote:Mate - I got a few MD players and a shitload of discs.....I can sell them to you in a 'bundle' as well.....HA!

heh $2...going going gone! sold!

fooishbar wrote:As for the loading mechanism, I think they fixed that problem as of the R90 or so: never had any problems with my beautiful R900.

Lol damn, I paid like $500 ages ago for my damn R50 model. It was so fragile, and it was basically a hi-end Tape Walkman that looked all futuristic and cool. luckily I palmed it off for $200 with the mechanism still broken! but not lucky I lost $300 to sony research and dev - which is now pretty bad, but those new Hard Drive players they got coming out look impressive.

aspekt wrote:the idea of cheap and sturdy removable media really appealed to me as well as the huge battery life (like a week or more using the gumstick li-ion and external aa) in comparison to the pathetic 10 hours or so of an ipod. It was perfect for recording live sets and it was easy to make mix tapes and swap them with my friends.
the 1GB would be awesome and i'm tempted to get one.
sony manage to shoot themselves in the foot with a lot of things (betamax being a poignant example). the netMD models seem to have all sorts of issues by sony using some really shitty software with a pathetic attempt at DRM.

yeh i was thinking about buying a zip drive on ebay for personal off-site backup solution, but this HI-MD format is getting me tempted, even if it is a crappy USB1.1 transfer rate. cheap removable media is rad. and I do want to be able to have a backup of all my cd's even if they are in ATRAC format.

I don't know if I should shell out the extra $95 for the NH1 model or get the cheap ass NH600 for $125, the NH900 is the sister model but has better battery life, but crappy remote. hmmm decisions.

I looked at minidisc.org apparently the new Hi-MD's released this year have OLED screens, USB2, in-built cameras AND THEY NATIVELY PLAY MP3's!!! Anyone know if they'll be released here on the cheap? I hope Sony sent in a shipment accidently only to heavily markdown them

aspekt · Post by **aspekt** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:16 pm

i haven't touched a zip disk in years. they were generally pretty good except some of my disks would randomly stop working in some to most computers.

nowhere near as bad as those imation superdisks. great concept, shithouse medium

Post by **breaksRbest** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:22 pm

aspekt wrote:the format is cool, the little disks feel so pro and futuristic. if sony had played their cards right, minidisks coulda been what ipods are now.......... the idea of cheap and sturdy removable media really appealed to me as well as the huge battery life (like a week or more using the gumstick li-ion and external aa) in comparison to the pathetic 10 hours or so of an ipod. It was perfect for recording live sets and it was easy to make mix tapes and swap them with my friends.

:script:

I can't understand why they didn't take off

Rob M · Post by **Rob M** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:27 pm

so you think MD as a backup format is a good idea? i just need a small backup medium that isn't readily available like CD-R's, so something that is more of a unique format that I will have encrypted data on just for double the protection.

I feel backing up to CD-R although cheap, has it's limitations in terms of non-rewritable data, and having a weekly/monthly backup schedule like mine, would see many CD-R's I'd need to desroy because they are superseeded in their archival content, which would lead to great wastage. Which I hate. Don't even mention the shitty cd-rw format.

I was thinking what a great format because not many people would think of MD's as a backup medium for data generally. Given the size and considered usage I think it's appropriate. so $30~ zip drive/superdisk, $200~Hi-MD with heaps of 1gb discs, 30c cd-r's (but major wastage), $200 external hard drive (bulky and not really suited to off-site backups).

Money and importance of usage vs. actual usage plays a big part also

damn you Sony!

Rob M · Post by **Rob M** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:32 pm

breaksRbest wrote:
aspekt wrote:the format is cool, the little disks feel so pro and futuristic. if sony had played their cards right, minidisks coulda been what ipods are now.......... the idea of cheap and sturdy removable media really appealed to me as well as the huge battery life (like a week or more using the gumstick li-ion and external aa) in comparison to the pathetic 10 hours or so of an ipod. It was perfect for recording live sets and it was easy to make mix tapes and swap them with my friends.
:script:

I can't understand why they didn't take off

mp3's busted the inconsistency in sony's formats -- they diluted the market with ATRAC, MD-LP, MD-SP, Net-MD And now Hi-MD formats. I mean honestly what marketing genious came up with all this as a continual selling point for MD's in general. Confuse people and they will take the easy option. ipod. or iriver. one word campaigns

I mean when mp3's were out, who really wanted to record their cd's to md as a storage format? I remember the process was long and boring and wasn't intuitive. That and the fact sony hasn't exploited their software well enough through good engineering has left it for dead basically.

Rob M · Post by **Rob M** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:49 pm

after much thinking, i've decided to get the nh1.

this is my usage scenario:

- backup medium for data (encrypted etc.. added protection of not many MD solutions for thieves to try and get at

)
- track my "to-do" tasks with line-in mic, have this as part of my time management system cycle for tracking random thoughts and things to do.
- have cd's I want accessible and store my proper cd albums in storage for backup purposes.
- record random radio/live shows.
- possibly do a podcast in future, don't know what about yet, but the option is there for future-proofed purposes ... heh

- buy a card reader-to-md backup device (when they go cheap in future of course). perfect for when I go overseas, take photos and just zip my CF card photos onto MD for 1gb per disc storage [no pc required!]. and not worry about a crappy Hard Drive based solution!! This is a MAD solution/option!
- I'm planning on learning a language in the future, so this would also help.
- backup my analog tapes and encode them on pc later. I still got some jungle tapes i need converting and my tape decks a fooked so gotta go to a mates and hook the two up eventually.

as you can see I really thought this through

PS I didn't realise until recently but you can re-format standard old-school blank MD's to hold 330MB of data in Hi-MD recorders!!! I'm pooling as many blank discs I can get off mates!

I still can't believe Sony is washing their hands of this format. I left it a while ago because of the problematic shit I had with their early models, but I have hi hopes for the new hi-md format. even if it is a year old, these deals are just too good to pass up.

Anyone willing to donate me some old MD's?

johnnynostars · Post by **johnnynostars** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:28 pm

Rob M wrote:after much thinking, i've decided to get the nh1.

this is my usage scenario:

- backup medium for data (encrypted etc.. added protection of not many MD solutions for thieves to try and get at )
- track my "to-do" tasks with line-in mic, have this as part of my time management system cycle for tracking random thoughts and things to do.
- have cd's I want accessible and store my proper cd albums in storage for backup purposes.
- record random radio/live shows.
- possibly do a podcast in future, don't know what about yet, but the option is there for future-proofed purposes ... heh
- buy a card reader-to-md backup device (when they go cheap in future of course). perfect for when I go overseas, take photos and just zip my CF card photos onto MD for 1gb per disc storage [no pc required!]. and not worry about a crappy Hard Drive based solution!! This is a MAD solution/option!
- I'm planning on learning a language in the future, so this would also help.
- backup my analog tapes and encode them on pc later. I still got some jungle tapes i need converting and my tape decks a fooked so gotta go to a mates and hook the two up eventually.

as you can see I really thought this through

PS I didn't realise until recently but you can re-format standard old-school blank MD's to hold 330MB of data in Hi-MD recorders!!! I'm pooling as many blank discs I can get off mates!

I still can't believe Sony is washing their hands of this format. I left it a while ago because of the problematic shit I had with their early models, but I have hi hopes for the new hi-md format. even if it is a year old, these deals are just too good to pass up.

Anyone willing to donate me some old MD's?

You are too hardcore!

What type of sensitive data are you backing up?

I just wanted mine for lots of music, and recording in PCM.

aspekt · Post by **aspekt** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:29 pm

writeable optical media (CDs and DVDs) are NOT archival quality. They are way to unstable and relying on them to backup invaluable data is a terrible idea (but less terrible than not backing up at all). MDs rock because they are enclosed and the only time the data surface is exposed is when it's in a machine (that said grit and grime can make their way in if you store them loose in a pocket/bag etc). that said it sounds like i'm preaching to the converted =D

i would imagine there is such thing as MD drives for pcs either 3.5" or 5.25" bay devices. I get the impression they were somewhat popular in japan or similar a few years ago if that's any help.

johnnynostars · Post by **johnnynostars** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:43 pm

aspekt wrote:writeable optical media (CDs and DVDs) are NOT archival quality. They are way to unstable and relying on them to backup invaluable data is a terrible idea (but less terrible than not backing up at all). MDs rock because they are enclosed and the only time the data surface is exposed is when it's in a machine (that said grit and grime can make their way in if you store them loose in a pocket/bag etc). that said it sounds like i'm preaching to the converted =D

i would imagine there is such thing as MD drives for pcs either 3.5" or 5.25" bay devices. I get the impression they were somewhat popular in japan or similar a few years ago if that's any help.

MDs are magnetic or something, yeah?

I do remember seeing some PC systems with MD drives.

aspekt · Post by **aspekt** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:28 am

MDs are magnetic or something, yeah?

I do remember seeing some PC systems with MD drives.[/quote]

magnetic right, optical read.

Rob M · Post by **Rob M** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:51 am

johnnynostars wrote:
Rob M wrote:after much thinking, i've decided to get the nh1....
You are too hardcore! What type of sensitive data are you backing up?

I just wanted mine for lots of music, and recording in PCM.

sensitive data that cannot be disclosed here

let's just say I have enough in my digital life that to simply burn stuff to cd-r or dvd+-r is too much of a risk to leave lying around and then to destroy later. My content is ever-changing and so I don't want to be wasteful with the medium I choose. Need something stable and non-common enough. and aspekts comments are spot-on. I considered actual magnetic tape, but experience at my previous work showed that retrieving data is a pain in the ass with that format. Archiving important shit HAS ALWAYS been problematic for me. Lost heaps of important stuff in my time. You tend to realise quickly, either use another hard drive for backup -- but that too could just as easily stuff up.

anything rewriteable isn't to be relied upon, but until now never considered MD as a grand solution. But given i'm an old skool fan, haven't owned one for years, now's a good time to be nostalgic and get in before Sony kills it. I'm sure some are still using Betamax. you know who you are

I was thinking zip storage, but having MD's on a backup rotation, i'm so wrapped that it fits the bill for my needs -- especially not even considering MD as a format i'd particularly look at as being a decent backup solution. I may check ebay.co.jp for some drives if they go cheap eventualy. Sony's motto/slogan should now be "It's a Sony...You Never Know...?"

Linear PCM is a big plus too for the recording aspect, and having the available usage options I mentioned before is cool too. i'm def off hard drive players now too for some reason. yes I sold my 40gb ipod! *gasp* Let's just say i'd get more out of a portable MD battery-wise then an ipod on a long trip or international flight which i'm planning in the near future. I'd rather invest in MD media then stupid apple add-ons that cost $$+ just to have camera plugin functionality. Video ipod is shit too, so why not

also, all my cd's are ripped to mp3, but I wouldn't mind just quickly turning on the MD rather then have the pc on all the time to listen to music as well. i'm hoping the new format doesn't have those mechanical sounding twitches the old school players had. i understand I gotta re-rip to ATRAC, but meh, I'd rather have 30~ ripped cd's on 1GB MD then to go hunt for the cd i wanted

you pay the same price for a 1GB shuffle with the new Hi-MD's you can buy now and have more functionality and better sound quality. Even if Sony has fooked up with their software and DRM, i'm sure they will release firmware updates to make MP3's playable *crosses fingers*. If not, i'm sure someone hardcore enough who wants to be leet will do it hopefully

aspekt · Post by **aspekt** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:47 pm

the other thing with magnetic tapes is you're supposed to fastforward and rewind them at least once a year. Since the tape is layered the bits can transfer across. I'm not sure if it's such an issue these days but i'm still kinda iffy about them.

i reckon raid HDDs are the way to go. I've got an 80gig drive in my pc which is on it's way out and i've had that for about 5 years i think. I've never had any other drive die on me (although i know other people aren't as lucky)

any idea how stable flash memory is? especially over an extended period of time?

ps can you send me some of your homemade porn? =D

Rob M · Post by **Rob M** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:23 pm

aspekt wrote:i reckon raid HDDs are the way to go. I've got an 80gig drive in my pc which is on it's way out and i've had that for about 5 years i think. I've never had any other drive die on me (although i know other people aren't as lucky)

any idea how stable flash memory is? especially over an extended period of time?

ps can you send me some of your homemade porn? =D

perhaps raid, but can you raid external drives? i have 2 computers so...

flash memory breaks down after 100,000,000 transfers or something whacky like that. So the nano's do have a defined lifetime

and no it's not porn. but i'm sure you're more experienced in raiding your porn collection than I am.

ctoafn_DMZ · Post by **ctoafn_DMZ** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:10 pm

I'm so buying one today - they are cheap as chips

Rob M · Post by **Rob M** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:56 pm

I heard some models have sold out already, however they be getting a new shipment from Sony this week so I think they will keep up with demand.

The NH900's have been popular as the NH1's. And I guess the 20-pack of 1GB blanks

can the irivers record pcm audio direct, or is there some compression processing done during?

saintberry · Post by **saintberry** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:49 am

it sounds like you are pretty serious with this stuff robm, if so...yo should spend some money and do it right.

md will degrade just as cd, tho not as fast and im not sure if it has good error correction like cd, so that may pose HUGE problems when backing up data. also the more you use (read or write) to the disc the more chance you have of corrupting already recorded data. very small risk, but its there.

you should look into tape drives. i used to have one of these a while ago. it was 80gb when the biggest hdd out was like 30. so handy. they are slow. but they are rock solid and have been used in the server industry without fail for years.

http://h18006.www1.hp.com/storage/tapes ... index.html

im not sure if thats what you meant when you said "actual magnet tape" but if so, yep its a pain. but its fucking solid.

as for md not taking off, sony just had its hand in too many pies. for ages the company was set up so that different departments would directly compete internally to aid innovation. it was holding its own for ages when cd was getting established (as you could record to it) but when those 6speed cdrw rioch burners came in @ 300bones, they were doomed. and as for hd md ive got no idea, but the quality of standard for audio i find shocking.

still a cool format IMO.

Rob M · Post by **Rob M** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:09 pm

saintberry wrote:im not sure if thats what you meant when you said "actual magnet tape" but if so, yep its a pain. but its fucking solid.

yeh magnetic tape, those bulky tape drives etc. solid they may be but from my experience definate pain in the buttox.

So will MD degrade worser than CD-R/DVD+-R? I wouldn't have thought. So I shouldn't rely on MD for consistent backups that are on rotation?

surely it can't be any worse than Zip, superdisk, normal magnetic tape, flash drives, HDD's ... whatever

I've just used a mates 8 year old blank MD and it still works/records with great reproduction quality.

Rob M · Post by **Rob M** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:25 am

update*

NH600+bundle pack is now $99

http://www.minidisc.com.au/product_info ... cts_id=461

Rob M · Post by **Rob M** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:05 pm

Sweet!

http://www.minidisc.com.au/product_info ... cts_id=862

:drool:

USB2, MP3 playback, Mac Uploading, High Definition Digital Amp, No DRM

If anyone's interested in buying this I got a coupon code that can take a further $20 off -- just PM me.

Still a bit pricey though, dunno think i might wait until Sony pulls out of the Oz market completely.

Post by **system** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:40 pm

Just to chime in on the backup front, DAT tapes aren't hugely robust. You have to keep them in a pretty constant temperature zone, as the medium is analogue. Dunno about using MiniDisks for data storage, looks a bit iffy.

Bring on cheap large volume solid state HDDs.

Back OT, those MD prices are crazy cheap. Awesome.

Rob M · Post by **Rob M** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:46 pm

oh yeh, there was a lifetime whitepaper done in Japan on the subject of MD longevity.

http://www.minidisc.org/research/MiniDi ... ePaper.pdf

It looks like MD's all the way

Magnetic Optical isn't so bad after all. But i'm guessing you gotta take good care of it, and not use it for mission critical stuff.

Post by **system** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:50 pm

True that. Working on the assumption that the weakest link in the chain (AKA double backup everything) will bring you down helps too.

witty_pseudonym · Post by **witty_pseudonym** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:37 pm

i'm sick of my minidisk and sonic stage is possibly THE worst program ever invented in the history of everything. HATE it. main reason so much of my music is still on my hard drive and not on MD.

time to upgrade.

johnnynostars · Post by **johnnynostars** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:09 pm

witty_pseudonym wrote:i'm sick of my minidisk and sonic stage is possibly THE worst program ever invented in the history of everything. HATE it. main reason so much of my music is still on my hard drive and not on MD.

time to upgrade.

Version 3.3 is better than others, still shit, but better...

Rob M · Post by **Rob M** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:00 am

There's a version 3.4 and 4

johnnynostars · Post by **johnnynostars** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:27 am

Rob M wrote:There's a version 3.4 and 4

I think I got 3.4 at some stage, but where is 4?

Rob M · Post by **Rob M** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:29 am

johnnynostars wrote:
Rob M wrote:There's a version 3.4 and 4
I think I got 3.4 at some stage, but where is 4?

Asia-Pacific version:
http://dl1.aii.co.jp/contents/connect/_ ... taller.exe

US version:
http://dl1.aii.co.jp/contents/connect/_ ... taller.exe

Rob M · Post by **Rob M** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 5:21 am

Sony opens up AA3 codec for Sound Forge et. al.

http://www.atraclife.com/2006/06/22/atr ... -software/

I think the future is getting brighter; now where the hell are my sunglasses.

PeACheSsS · Post by **PeACheSsS** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:21 pm

sonic stage v4 is out and is better than the previous versions but you may as well just use the M-Crew for uploadin/downloadin for faster speed...
if youre after the version 4 its here http://www.connect.com/download_cookie.html#

but MDs have come a long way and are popular in most other countries xept for here but seen the new sexy MD? Theres a new 1 hittin sony stores next month...

Rob M · Post by **Rob M** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:15 am

nah, the MZ-RH910 or the MZ-RH10/M100 (if it's the Mac one) ... won't be released in Oz!

I heard from good sources, only the black MZ-RH1 will be released which is the new 3rd generation of Hi-MD.

They should start appearing at around early July. So in about a couple weeks. I already have mine on pre-order. I made the leap and am selling my old gear on ebay.

I just love the fact the RH1 has got MP3, High Def Amp and USB 2 (with a proper usb male connector, and not those shitty proprietory Sony ones that break easy).

Sony will not be making anymore MD portables after this. But who knows, it looks like world-wide they're selling like hotcakes because Sony has actually listened to the MD community now about upgrades and better usb connectivity to it's latest generation Hi-MD.

But still... the software is undesirable to say the least. Hopefully they will open this up in future and allow drag and drop on PC+Mac