sound engineering courses

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:58 pm

wondering who out there has done or is doing sound eng courses.
how did you find them, what options are out there and how 'good' are they?

getting quite into the technical side of my production, and enjoyed the doing basic mastering on some other peoples work for a cd lately.
im up for a forced career change in the next year so i was thinking i might head back and reskill.
want to something indepth, industry relevant etc. have quite a lot of experience already, but my 'training' ended in 99. would like to get back into live mixing as well as studio.

thanx, g

motske · Post by **motske** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:22 pm

heard good tings about the SAE and JMC Aud Eng courses, however it'll set you back about $11,000 a year

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:25 pm

^ Yeah, not cheap!

(do I win the award for stating the obvious?)

Ag3nT[]0raNg3 · Post by **Ag3nT[]0raNg3** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:28 pm

ben safire is at SAE. in byron.

shadowgamezzz0r is doin something too

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:32 pm

yes, not cheap, but i do need to reskill, can no longer do my job due to workplace injury so ...
i dunno, jmc sounded a bit like kindergarten when a friend was there a while back, first six months would kill me.
just remembered i know a teacher from jmc ...
so no idea on rmit or vic uni?
i know the nmit course is badly run

Shadowgames · Post by **Shadowgames** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:34 pm

Ag3nT[]0raNg3 wrote:ben safire is at SAE. in byron.

shadowgamezzz0r is doin something too

I'm a few weeks of graduation from SAE, with a BA (Recording Arts) Honours. (ben is just starting out on the same course in in byron

)

Not the sort of thing to do if you just want learn how to produce electronic music. But if you are wanting to learn studio recordinfrom the groud up its great. I'm now working for ABC radio every spare moment i have.

if you have any specific quesions, fire away.

EDIT: we have about 8 people (in my class of 19) who left JMC after 6 months to come to SAE. food for thought...

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:55 pm

might formulate something and hit you up in next few days

Shadowgames · Post by **Shadowgames** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:56 pm

unsoundbwoy wrote:might formulate something and hit you up in next few days

cool.

JC · Post by JC » Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:27 pm

Im doing the diploma at RMIT now and I think its great and its is only $800.
I bit cheaper than SAE

Scholtzy · Post by **Scholtzy** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 11:18 am

Im at SAE as well, just started this year. Its pretty comprehensive, but if you already have experience you might find the first 3 months a bit of a pain, but its great if you go in without any prior knowledge (like me). My only problem at the moment is that its not busy enough, but its probably because we are still doing theory most of the time.., once we get projects for the different studios im told that it will pick up heaps tho.

Also, there are about 5 people in my class from JMC.., and from what I've heard, its sounds pretty average.

Focus · Post by **Focus** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:37 pm

I went to JMC and from what i've heard from the trainers at JMC is that the university that hands out SAE's diplomas/degrees etc doesn't even exist and closed down 15 years ago HAHA!

but how true that is? i dont know.

JMC is so damn unorganised its not funny, i wouldn't go there again. And i didn't do the sound course so i dont know anything about it.

Shadowgames · Post by **Shadowgames** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:46 pm

Focus wrote:I went to JMC and from what i've heard from the trainers at JMC is that the university that hands out SAE's diplomas/degrees etc doesn't even exist and closed down 15 years ago HAHA!

Middlesex University, London

JC · Post by JC » Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:05 pm

Man I wish I had free time, RMIT Just pack that shit in.
hardly time to write tunes!

Focus · Post by **Focus** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:25 pm

Shadowgames wrote:
Focus wrote:I went to JMC and from what i've heard from the trainers at JMC is that the university that hands out SAE's diplomas/degrees etc doesn't even exist and closed down 15 years ago HAHA!
Middlesex University, London

Little Evil · Post by **Little Evil** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:51 am

SAE is quite possibly the BIGGEST load of shit I ever spent money on.
When you go in there, (before they get your money) they take you round this great place, with all these fantastic studio's. (That you don't even ever get to use - but they don't tell you that)
Then you pay up for your years tuition (an unbelieveable $11,000, or $10,000 if you pay it all up front)
You do 3 months of ridiculous theory at the start - and they cover in horrendously over done detail things that you would never use or even think about in a real studio. (I mean you spend 3 weeks on digital theory alone!!)
Then you have a multiple choice test at the end of the three months - of which has no relevance to the stuff you learnt, and the hand outs you recieved in class.
Because SAE is a worldwide franchise, they pull the multiple choice test from a bank that is used accross the world. And even the terms they used were totally different than what we learnt in class.
The pass mark for the first test is 70%. I have an IQ of 150, I studied my ass off for three weeks beforehand, and I failed by one mark.
I have HD's in most of my classes when I was doing my uni degree back in the day - yet SAE baffled me? The test was nothing like what we were learning, and we kicked up a huge stink about it, but they wouldn't let us take it again.
Two people in a class of 15 passed. And they'd both studied sound engineering before.
Work that out?
Maybe it was the teacher, maybe it's me, maybe it's just a huge fuck-up?
Who knows?

Then, when that's over - they put you in a studio with a prehistoric Mackie desk, that you need Fonzie in to give a whack to get working properly. It has more hisses and cracks than bacon being fried.
Your in there for AGES - and they get you to mix down and master some of the most ridiculous rock & roll tunes you've ever heard.
But this is the catch - they don't even teach you to mix and master before-hand? Work that shit out?
If you haven't gone mad by then, they then get you on a prehistoric digital desk for more of the same, while simultaneously giving you cut and paste jobs to do on cubase (Which if don't drive you nuts due to their sheer manotany, then your a better man than me), and then as a 'prize' giving you acces to the crappiest mastering studio you've ever seen, with fucked speakers, running through a behringer $200 mini-desk, with protools LE.

The 20 or so community computers for the students there are in a constant state of disarray, and the blokes who run it are inept.
Everything in there constantly is under repair, or is usually fucked in some way.

If the dudes had sense, for the $11,000 you fork out you'd think you'd get all your projects on disk, and service on a silver platter.
It aint the case.
You have to download everything forn an internal ethernet system they have running - which 70% of the time is fucked anyway, and you get your service with a snarl.

I recomend this course to no-one.
It is absolute CRAP.
I dropped out 3/4 of the way through, because it so fucking bad.
Then they hit me with an $18,00 deferment fee - of which I owe $300 on.

I guess the thing that pissed me off the most, was having to fight for studio time. You have to book two weeks in advance for two hours in the Mackie studio. It's a joke.

Seriously, go to JMC or RMIT - or just learn on your own.
You learn more sitting in a studio with real sound engineers in a day, than you ever would at this half-assed joke of a place in a year.
Don't waste your money and time here.
You have been warned.

Scholtzy · Post by **Scholtzy** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:14 pm

Little Evil · Post by **Little Evil** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:51 pm

And what pissed me off even more - (and sorry to rant here a bit guys) is that in the SAE courses in the USA you get a Mac to use and take home the whole time you do the course.
We got a crappy paper-back book on sound engineering, that isn't much, and that I rarely refer to.
Also, we got a few handouts, and a shitload of time in a boring little room that I can recall every crack on the back wall - because after the test fuck-up, I spent lots of time looking at it, while the teacher waffled on about complete bollocks.
Yeah, so wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Shadowgames · Post by **Shadowgames** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:53 pm

so i take you went to sae when it was still in hawksburn?

Little Evil · Post by **Little Evil** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:55 pm

No, the newer one in South Melbourne.
Apparently the older one was much better - and cheaper too.

Shadowgames · Post by **Shadowgames** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:00 pm

fair enough. its shame you hated it.

i can safely say i have had almost the exact opposite experiance to you.

but who cares really.

Little Evil · Post by **Little Evil** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:20 pm

Yeah, the only thing I'm miffed about now is the money and the time.
Some people liked it there, but they got good teachers. I don't think ours was all that crash hot.
A smart dude, but teaching definately not being his forte.

I've taught myself LOTS more in the year since I left.

They just need to get organised in that place, maybe drop the fees a bit, offer a bit better service, and it would be ok.
Yeah, but if my Aunty had balls she'd be my Uncle.
So, fuck it, I won't be going back to finish it off.
I am an SAE dropout, and I say it with pride.

timmah · Post by **timmah** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:58 pm

fuck that, there are bugger all jobs in studios, even less decent ones. Spend the cash on gear and learn a decent trade.

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:34 pm

timmah wrote:fuck that, there are bugger all jobs in studios, even less decent ones. Spend the cash on gear and learn a decent trade.

shit i didn't realise that, i thought the music industry was a gold mine, isn't everyone on here making heaps of money out of music?
i already have all the gear i want, so i can probably just hang on to the money. what trade do you suggest timmah? your opinion means a lot to me and could help me at this point.

Shadowgames · Post by **Shadowgames** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:44 pm

unsoundbwoy wrote:
timmah wrote:fuck that, there are bugger all jobs in studios, even less decent ones. Spend the cash on gear and learn a decent trade.
shit i didn't realise that, i thought the music industry was a gold mine, isn't everyone on here making heaps of money out of music?
i already have all the gear i want, so i can probably just hang on to the money. what trade do you suggest timmah? your opinion means a lot to me and could help me at this point.

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:38 pm

big ups all, after dis and an aol chat think im much closer to deciding, or becoming a plummer, or using my degree, but unless shadow games and little evil are up for an arm wrestle sae and jmc are outta my picture regardless of price.
ez,
g

Little Evil · Post by **Little Evil** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:27 pm

unsoundbwoy wrote:big ups all, after dis and an aol chat think im much closer to deciding, or becoming a plummer, or using my degree, but unless shadow games and little evil are up for an arm wrestle sae and jmc are outta my picture regardless of price.
ez,
g

Good work man.

Go do your course at RMIT - pay one hundredth of the price, and learn the same thing.
Or, just sit in as many studio sessions as you can.

I'm building a new studio very soon. When it's done you are more than welcome to come down and see how things work. I'd be happy to show you.

gb · Post by gb » Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:01 pm

I'm currently studying the technical production course at RMIT. From what I've seen so far, it's pretty damn good. First few weeks were a little boring as I already knew a lot of the material but it's getting more and more relevant ( and challenging) by the day. It cost me $888 for the whole year, with the money I had put away to originally go to SAE I purchased a new Macbook Pro, interface, patchbay, monitors.... the list goes on. The teachers really seem to know their shit at RMIT as well. Any the other thing is that there is selection criteria to get into the course at RMIT, so there's heaps of good networking to be had. SAE's only prerequisite is a wad of cash.

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:05 pm

gb
I think i should be okay with getting into the course, you doing the diploma or cert IV?
be interested to know how in depth it ends up, and how long it takes to get through the low level
chur, g

gb · Post by gb » Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:14 pm

I'm doing the Cert. IV at the moment, but will more than likely go on to do the Diploma next year. All the selectors want to know is that you know basics about equipment, it helps if you play an instrument or have had any work experience (if you get some work experience this year, you'll get in next year for sure). It's also a good course as it's teaching things like digital audio theory (which I had no idea about, technically), basic electronics as well as sound and acoustics (which is way cool, my room is gonna sound the shizzzzzz pretty soon). Their setup in the studio is pretty basic, however you can still get some phat sounds out of it.

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:16 pm

I get the feeling one of the main things in getting in to RMIT (apart from skill/backgound) is demonstating (or pretending to demonstrate) a real passion for the "industry" and working towards a role in engineering, mixing etc.

I got a pretty black and white response from an instructor that they dont want people who are simply serving thier own ends - ie upping thier production skills only...

gb · Post by gb » Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:20 pm

Yep, I know what you mean Fstepper - all the teachers are industry heads and their goal is really to get you making money from the industry in one way or another (which isn't a bad thing). What you do with the course once you've finished it however, it totally up to you...

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:28 pm

Yep

You just need to sell yourself properly. i.e. lie if all your in for is working on your skills for personal gain.

gb · Post by gb » Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:44 pm

Bingo.

SoulWhiteMan · Post by **SoulWhiteMan** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:06 pm

unsoundbwoy wrote: so no idea on rmit or vic uni?
i know the nmit course is badly run

i know someone who just finished the RMIT course with high distinction, he got a helluva lot out of it (but, having said that, he is a smart geezer....) he did tell me that the average bong-heads there weren't taking much away from it.

JC · Post by JC » Fri Apr 14, 2006 4:41 pm

And if your poor like me and get a health care card the diploma/ and cert 4 course gets nocked down to $180
Blap!!!!!!!!!!!

a1studmuffin · Post by **a1studmuffin** » Fri May 05, 2006 3:02 am

Hey gb is the course you're talking about a night school thing at RMIT? Like are you working full time while you're doing this as well? Or you're still studying at uni?

gb · Post by gb » Fri May 05, 2006 10:28 am

Actually, the course I'm doing is full time (or at least, it's 20 contact hours per week). I'm lucky enough to have scored a permanent part time (19 hours p/w) job where I work, so it's just a matter of juggling the hours and surviving on 1/2 a wage. Mind you, it makes it easy to be poor when I'm studying music all the time!

a1studmuffin · Post by **a1studmuffin** » Fri May 05, 2006 8:06 pm

Hahaha, true dat. I'm coming at it from the other side.. got a full time programming job now and a full time girlfriend (haha meant in a nice way

) so it's reading music production books on the train to/from work for me... sigh... if anyone wants to donate a cool couple of thousand my way so I can take 6 months off and really get into my music again I'd be grateful.

Anyone? Bueller?

bennyk · Post by **bennyk** » Thu May 18, 2006 4:55 pm

I've done the sound engineering Diploma @ SAE in South Melbourne, great new complex and staff.

I would only advise doing the first year if you are looking for a sound eng. course, as the second year is the degree and it is mainly business orientated.

but....

Little Evil wrote:SAE is quite possibly the BIGGEST load of shit I ever spent money on.
When you go in there, (before they get your money) they take you round this great place, with all these fantastic studio's. (That you don't even ever get to use - but they don't tell you that)
Then you pay up for your years tuition (an unbelieveable $11,000, or $10,000 if you pay it all up front)
You do 3 months of ridiculous theory at the start - and they cover in horrendously over done detail things that you would never use or even think about in a real studio. (I mean you spend 3 weeks on digital theory alone!!)
Then you have a multiple choice test at the end of the three months - of which has no relevance to the stuff you learnt, and the hand outs you recieved in class.
Because SAE is a worldwide franchise, they pull the multiple choice test from a bank that is used accross the world. And even the terms they used were totally different than what we learnt in class.
The pass mark for the first test is 70%. I have an IQ of 150, I studied my ass off for three weeks beforehand, and I failed by one mark.
I have HD's in most of my classes when I was doing my uni degree back in the day - yet SAE baffled me? The test was nothing like what we were learning, and we kicked up a huge stink about it, but they wouldn't let us take it again.
Two people in a class of 15 passed. And they'd both studied sound engineering before.
Work that out?
Maybe it was the teacher, maybe it's me, maybe it's just a huge fuck-up?
Who knows?

Then, when that's over - they put you in a studio with a prehistoric Mackie desk, that you need Fonzie in to give a whack to get working properly. It has more hisses and cracks than bacon being fried.
Your in there for AGES - and they get you to mix down and master some of the most ridiculous rock & roll tunes you've ever heard.
But this is the catch - they don't even teach you to mix and master before-hand? Work that shit out?
If you haven't gone mad by then, they then get you on a prehistoric digital desk for more of the same, while simultaneously giving you cut and paste jobs to do on cubase (Which if don't drive you nuts due to their sheer manotany, then your a better man than me), and then as a 'prize' giving you acces to the crappiest mastering studio you've ever seen, with fucked speakers, running through a behringer $200 mini-desk, with protools LE.

The 20 or so community computers for the students there are in a constant state of disarray, and the blokes who run it are inept.
Everything in there constantly is under repair, or is usually fucked in some way.

If the dudes had sense, for the $11,000 you fork out you'd think you'd get all your projects on disk, and service on a silver platter.
It aint the case.
You have to download everything forn an internal ethernet system they have running - which 70% of the time is fucked anyway, and you get your service with a snarl.

I recomend this course to no-one.
It is absolute CRAP.
I dropped out 3/4 of the way through, because it so fucking bad.
Then they hit me with an $18,00 deferment fee - of which I owe $300 on.

I guess the thing that pissed me off the most, was having to fight for studio time. You have to book two weeks in advance for two hours in the Mackie studio. It's a joke.

Seriously, go to JMC or RMIT - or just learn on your own.
You learn more sitting in a studio with real sound engineers in a day, than you ever would at this half-assed joke of a place in a year.
Don't waste your money and time here.
You have been warned.

^ perfectly summed up.

Dont waste your money, go and pester engineers in studios for some assistant work, or even work experience.

And another thing I'd like to rant about.. SAE, fix your fucking equipment. How the hell are students supposed to learn when your EQs, compressors and desks dont work?

The TL studio was an absolute joke when we were there, we were the first class to start in the new place, and talk about dramas.. I want a fucking refund.

TheBrains · Post by **TheBrains** » Thu May 18, 2006 8:56 pm

Here's something I did and it taught me alot:

Find a mixer / mastering guy whose sound you like and go and pay them to help you mix your track. Pay for the time to show you how they get things to work and how they get their sound. Admittedly it costs but no where near 11,000 dollars.

I learned what turned out to be pretty simple stuff in a way that made the penny drop. Improved my productions outta sight.

You do not need to go to SAE to understand sound. There are plenty of reference books and DVDs and websites to help you get your head around that stuff. You don't need access to pro equipment either because despite the horseshit that gets slung around on occasion - you can get awesome results with crap gear if you know you stuff.

Noisia use a M-Audio delta 44 card with cubase sx on a PC and their tracks absolutely rip.

If you just can't imagine forking over dough at a studio when you've got a decent home studio then just buy Charles Dye's "Mix It Like A Record". Its basically like having a world class mixer hanging at your house and showing you stuff.

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Fri May 19, 2006 11:21 am

^ great idea!

Snowie · Post by **Snowie** » Fri May 19, 2006 7:22 pm

If any one can find the Charlie dye book online, please put up a thread, i'm still hunting ....

TheBrains · Post by **TheBrains** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:10 pm

http://www.kagimedia.com/TrainingVideos ... ideos.html

Here you go. Should've included it in the last post.

Amick · Post by **Amick** » Wed May 31, 2006 5:45 pm

*chinstroke*

WHAT AM I GOING TO DO NEXT YEAR???

sye · Post by **sye** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:45 pm

I did the cert iv at RMIT last year, and yeah it's a great course because you get lots of studio time and prac classes. If what I'm hearing about SAE is true, then RMIT would have to be a million times better. It's a well organised course and the teachers are enthusiastic. The best thing about it is that when your doing your major studio recording, you always have a teacher in the control room of whom you can pester for any queries about mixing, recording, eqing, whatever...

gb · Post by gb » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:21 pm

Has anyone applied to RMIT for the Music Industry (technical production) course for next year? Just wondering, I've been doing it this year and would def. recommend it to anyone who wants to learn some "from-the-ground-up" production skills.

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:36 pm

i decided not to and to keep hackin away
I already know a fair bit and i'm pretty nerdy so i keep reading and learning without classes and tests
plus i can already give good head so anything they teach me about sucking cock in the industry is wasted

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:38 pm

^^^ i dunno I reckon you could do with more practise

your technique is still a little rough

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:48 pm

i was too trashed

...

when i mixed down the track

gb · Post by gb » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:49 pm

There is always room for improvement.