City of Melbourne Graffitti madness

For all your off topic conversation requirements. No posts about gigs please, use the Music forum. As usual, no "NSFW" material, keep it clean.
User avatar
FoundationStepper
Posts: 3556
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:55 am

City of Melbourne Graffitti madness

Post by FoundationStepper »

Hey I dont know if this has been posted here before - as far as i know the new city of melbourne policy on graffitti...

graffitti politricks
city of melb wrote:The City of Melbourne is committed to providing a clean, vibrant, safe and welcoming atmosphere for all city residents, workers and visitors. As part of this commitment, the Council maintains a network of roads, footpaths, laneways and infrastructure in the municipality to ensure it is in good repair and top condition. This infrastructure is regularly subjected to vandalism in the form of graffiti, diminishing perceptions of the city’s cleanliness and safety.

...

The City of Melbourne needs a graffiti management plan which states that graffiti is unwanted, unwelcome and will not be tolerated. The plan must detail what action the Council will take to address this issue, how the Council will help residents and building owners, occupiers and managers to rid their properties of graffiti, and what enforcement action it will take to ensure the city stays clean.

This Graffiti Management Plan demonstrates Council’s get tough on graffiti approach.

The Plan aims to generate lasting change in attitudes and behaviour towards graffiti.

It clearly states that graffiti is not acceptable in the municipality and the City of Melbourne will do everything in its power to eradicate this vandalism. The City of Melbourne will work to obtain the support of the community (residents, workers, city visitors), building and infrastructure owners, occupiers and managers, all levels of government, government
authorities, utilities and other city stakeholders to tackle graffiti head-on.

...

Recent consultation has shown that many community members distinguish between tagging, which is considered undesirable, and murals or street art, which are generally valued more highly.

Consultation with the graffiti writing community has also shown that younger, less experienced writers tend to engage in tagging, while experienced writers are usually responsible for murals or street art.

• The City of Melbourne will work with property owners, managers and
occupiers, graffiti writers, Victoria Police and local communities to investigate providing legitimate avenues for murals and street art to be displayed.

• The City of Melbourne will engage with the arts community regarding murals and street art, for example, in conjunction with cultural festivals or arts development projects in the public domain.

• The City of Melbourne will positively engage with graffiti writers in mentoring and arts programmes to facilitate opportunities for legitimate artistic expression and to divert their efforts away from illegal tagging and towards high quality work
User avatar
FoundationStepper
Posts: 3556
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:55 am

Post by FoundationStepper »

oh yeah and note the distinction - stencils are lumped in with tagging - murals are seen as different
city of melb wrote:Graffiti, for the purposes of this Plan, is defined as tagging and/or stand-alone
stencils. This Plan provides the City of Melbourne with a coordinated, multifaceted approach to graffiti management.

At the core of this Plan are the principles of rapid removal, education, prevention and enforcement. To be successful, the Plan requires a collaborative approach involving the City of Melbourne, residents and property and infrastructure owners, the State Government and its agencies, neighbouring municipalities and other stakeholders.
User avatar
shepherd
Posts: 2836
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:13 am
Location: Tehran
Contact:

Post by shepherd »

what are you whinging about - 90%+ of the graf in the city is rubbish and it doesn't do the city any favours ... the city is well within its rights to do something about it.

besides
Recent consultation has shown that many community members distinguish between tagging, which is considered undesirable, and murals or street art, which are generally valued more highly.

Consultation with the graffiti writing community has also shown that younger, less experienced writers tend to engage in tagging, while experienced writers are usually responsible for murals or street art.

• The City of Melbourne will work with property owners, managers and
occupiers, graffiti writers, Victoria Police and local communities to investigate providing legitimate avenues for murals and street art to be displayed.

• The City of Melbourne will engage with the arts community regarding murals and street art, for example, in conjunction with cultural festivals or arts development projects in the public domain.

• The City of Melbourne will positively engage with graffiti writers in mentoring and arts programmes to facilitate opportunities for legitimate artistic expression and to divert their efforts away from illegal tagging and towards high quality work
sounds to me they're trying to work with the good artists to provide legitimate LEGAL means of getting the art out there.

I like graf but I think people forget that it is not solicited 99.9% of the time ... and whilst the person doing it may think it's totally awesome, the building owner, resident etc MAY NOT AGREE. At least by creating legitimate avenues it could stop this
User avatar
FoundationStepper
Posts: 3556
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:55 am

Post by FoundationStepper »

Not winging but I see some faults with the approach.

- stencil art is lumped in with tagging, with no discretion to see it on its merits. There does not appear to be scope to consider the value of smaller pieces, or composite pieces from smaller elements. By value I mean approaval to get a permit for it.

- the permit application process being a planning type application could take donkeys years, especially in the instance of a complaint (which could be unfounded or unreasonable). Im not sure of a solution but I think this system would be better suited to something more streamlined.

- there are no parameters for the assessment of a "mural" application, such as balancing community views. for eg, would an application be automatically rejected in the instance of an objection?

- what if a piece goes up and an applicaiton is made? how does this affect the timeframes of the enforcment/removal process?
User avatar
deviant
Posts: 18213
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:52 pm
Location: couch
Contact:

Post by deviant »

I was just about to post this thread myself :lol:

yeah, word shep....

It's not as if the council is ever going to go "oh, let's just let people tag when and where-ever they like". Property owners pay rates and taxes that mean the coucil has a responsibility to pretect their property from vandalism (real or perceived).

Besides, if it ceased to become illegal wouldn't it take away from the appeal of tagging anyway? The fact that it is illegal is part of the whole thrill/mystique. So, one must bear the consequences of getting caught and/or having their art removed.

I think this is a pretty good way for the council to make amends with the street art community and allow some art to stay.
User avatar
FoundationStepper
Posts: 3556
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:55 am

Post by FoundationStepper »

deviant wrote: It's not as if the council is ever going to go "oh, let's just let people tag when and where-ever they like". Property owners pay rates and taxes that mean the coucil has a responsibility to pretect their property from vandalism (real or perceived).

I think this is a pretty good way for the council to make amends with the street art community and allow some art to stay.
True on the whole. But as you know with government, the detail counts. To overlegislate would also be a pain, and to not distinguish the legitamacy of some stencil art to be recognised/permit approved sucks
User avatar
ghetto kitty
Posts: 13157
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 1:40 pm
Contact:

Post by ghetto kitty »

I have been involved with this argument for months.

part of the decline in qulaity on the streets lately is becasue of these new laws.

this is the reason john so aint my bro.

and with legals, the same ten artists will just be covering the walls, no room for new people, no room for freedom of expression, no room for public discourse which is the entire fucking point of street art.

I will continue to do stickers, pasties and bondage babies and skirt around the edges of the law.

so much for melbuorne being toted as the 'stencil capital of the world' all the artists i know who made it so arent even doing shit anymore, they all want to be in galleries and be paid for thier talents.

tagging sucks, yes.
but it is part of the culture, and most talented graffers/artists also tag from time to time.

no, sorry, these laws will not make the quality better, they will drive these graffers to attack the legals that do happen casue the artists doing them are seen as 'selling out', they will cover and cover legals like the mickey mouse in brunswick st untill it all looks shit.

like the one in melbourne central walkway,
like most of hosier lane,
like most of the good pieces that are legals.

phht.
Last edited by ghetto kitty on Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
FoundationStepper
Posts: 3556
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:55 am

Post by FoundationStepper »

I got the feeling that in city of yarra the pieces were being done by a select few, which got boring pretty quick

would be neat if there was some sort of ability to network with a range of artists (informally), rather than this self limiting system...
User avatar
deviant
Posts: 18213
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:52 pm
Location: couch
Contact:

Post by deviant »

GK: what do you expect the council to do?
User avatar
ghetto kitty
Posts: 13157
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 1:40 pm
Contact:

Post by ghetto kitty »

FoundationStepper wrote:I got the feeling that in city of yarra the pieces were being done by a select few, which got boring pretty quick

would be neat if there was some sort of ability to network with a range of artists (informally), rather than this self limiting system...
exactly.

im serious, the legals will be dominated by a group of ten, twenty maximum people.

and i know at least eighty artists in this city who can do amazing legal walls, but they arent either 'connected' enough or 'in' enough with the 'right' people.

i expect the council to actually LOOK at all the options they entertained before they lassed this no tolerance shit.
they had options from all over the world, where it WORKS. and they threw em all out, surprise surprise.

:roll:
User avatar
FoundationStepper
Posts: 3556
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:55 am

Post by FoundationStepper »

but in recognition of the way councils are going, what oppurtunities are there to develop your own informal network, ie a portfolio of examples from differnt artists, and promote this as a resource for council or property owners to draw from when selecting a work for a site?
User avatar
lynt
Posts: 16011
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:14 pm
Contact:

Post by lynt »

stan & bonez or breakbeat dynamic duo Koma & Bones? Unless they share a secret life I don't know about... um... :lol:
User avatar
deviant
Posts: 18213
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:52 pm
Location: couch
Contact:

Post by deviant »

With this new system of application surely the legal graph would be much more accesible to all the artists, especially since it can also be done after the fact.

Wouldn't this amendment to the law prove that the council is reconsidering it's "no tolerance" stand point?

Even despite the "no tolerance" view of the City of Melbourne I see SHITLOADS of graph pretty much everywhere, especially in the CBD. Have you been to west melbourne lately? The place is totally covered.
User avatar
ghetto kitty
Posts: 13157
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 1:40 pm
Contact:

Post by ghetto kitty »

lynt > hehehe i was typin so fast i didnt notice...yes, sorry, stan and bones...
FoundationStepper wrote:but in recognition of the way councils are going, what oppurtunities are there to develop your own informal network, ie a portfolio of examples from differnt artists, and promote this as a resource for council or property owners to draw from when selecting a work for a site?
phht.
sorry, but im not providing the council with a list of artist's names who do illegal stuff on the street still.

AND > part of this new lovely lesilation says that property owners can commision an artist, like misty bar, to paint the outside, then the council can come along and buff it in the night and bill misty. same goes for pensioners.

ill try and find the original points put forward deviant, so you can see jsut how many options they talked about, and didnt do.
User avatar
FoundationStepper
Posts: 3556
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:55 am

Post by FoundationStepper »

why names? cant you just provide images?

or even drawings as a range of ideas for properties to choose from?

just throwing (unformed) ideas around, I guess it would be nice if there was some form of workaround...

that was my other question /possible fault - if misty put in a permit application, does that mean the enforcement process is suspended?
User avatar
ghetto kitty
Posts: 13157
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 1:40 pm
Contact:

Post by ghetto kitty »

images ARE names in the street. same thing.

heres an essay i found that you will find interesting


Melbourne and a Zero Tolerance Graffiti Policy

This position paper outlines and objects to the Melbourne city Council’s zero tolerance graffiti policy.

Melbourne City Council commissioned Alison Young, Head of the Department of Criminology at Melbourne University to draw up a draft graffiti strategy last March. Young recommended that there should be tolerance zones in Melbourne where artists would be at a lower risk of being arrested, and that zero tolerance policies often fail.

The Council rejected this recommendation and instead doubled its anti-graffiti budget. Many areas across Melbourne both in the inner city and the suburbs have been ‘buffed’, that is the art has been painted over with a dull grey paint. Last month the Government announced it was spending over one million dollars to clean up the graffiti along the train line at North Melbourne.

The Council believes that graffiti started in the 1960’s with a tagger name ‘taki 183’. However, the word graffiti actually comes from the Latin, graffito – meaning to scratch and has been around since long before the invention of the aerosol can.

There is no one graffiti policy across Melbourne. Each council in the city has its own policy and its own view. The Melbourne City Council itself has funded and bought pieces of the street art that it is now outlawing.

There needs to be some sense made of their graffiti policy and some middle ground found.

The main point of this paper is to give the artist’s a voice and to give the councillors and Council an overview of the real issues.

It also represents the building owners and the general public that do not want graffiti removed.

In addition, it provides real options for creating a balance between zero tolerance and anarchy.


Melbourne City Council’s view

The Victorian Government and the Melbourne City Council believe that creating tolerance zones and zero tolerance areas will deter would be offenders, yet have rejected this option. The Council defines graffiti as, “tagging and/or stand alone stencils”. The Graffiti Management Plan 2006 sets out guidelines for building owners and sets out the Council’s stance on graffiti.
Examples:
This is an example of a tag this is an example of a standalone stencil



“At the core of this Plan are the principles of rapid removal, education, prevention and enforcement. To be successful, the Plan requires a collaborative approach involving the City of Melbourne, residents and property and infrastructure owners, the State Government and its agencies, neighbouring municipalities and other stakeholders.”

The Plan states that owners must remove graffiti within 24-48 hours once reported. The owners are generally responsible for the cost of the painting. When repainting a large area it is possible that a painting permit will have to be acquired from the Council before building owners can repaint the graffiti.

If an owner wishes to keep a mural on their wall, they will have to go through a process the same as a planning permit, and shop owners around the site will be able to argue against the mural. If an owner is ordered to remove a mural and does not they will be given written notice. This will be a ‘Notice to Comply’ issued under the Activities Local Law referring to clause 9.2 (B). It will give the owner / occupier / manager a further period (usually one week) to remove the graffiti.

If after this time the owner does not remove the work, the business will be issued with an infringement notice. If the owner does not remove the graffiti, the Council will remove it in accordance with its powers under the Act ivies Local Law.

The Council will also work with the Victorian Police photographing works and working to catch and prosecute offenders.

A group of lobbyists who call themselves R.A.G.E – Residents Against Graffiti Everywhere - are working towards a graffiti free city, and towards catching offenders. R.A.G.E is “lobbying for safer cleaner suburbs”. Their research states that caught offenders are usually in the possession of or under the influence of drugs or alcohol and can be violent.

However, there are many people and organizations that feel that graffiti is an art movement; similar to a movement like Dadaism and feel that it is culturally significant. The National Trust has in the past considered classifying graffiti of historical significance and as worthy of preservation.

Within the Melbourne City Council, there is opposition to the zero tolerance policy. Green’s Councillor Fraser Brindley opposes the adoption of the policy and sees it as “sanitizing the city for the Commonwealth Games.”

Anne McDonald, the National Gallery of Australia’s curator of prints and drawings sees stencil art as, “the contemporary equivalent of the political posters of the ‘70s and ‘80s”. She makes it a point to drop by Hosier Lane and Centre Place to see how the scene is progressing and says that the gallery is considering ways to incorporate stencil art into the collection.

There is also the fear that by creating zero tolerance areas artists will resort to tagging which only takes 5-10 seconds. Tagging the main form of graffiti that the Council is trying to combat and eradicate. By creating a policy which means that artists will not have the opportunity to do their work properly the Council is creating an atmosphere where spray can tags are all that will be painted.

RASH a documentary that aired on ABC in April this year and was featured last year at the Melbourne International Film Festival talked to many locals in areas where there is a large amount of graffiti. The general consensus was that people do not like the messy ‘tags’, one man said, “if I can walk to work every morning and see a new stencil that makes me think about something and really ponder it, then I guess they’re achieving what they’re supposed to.”

The book ‘Stencil Graffiti Capital: Melbourne’ created huge controversy. At the opening night for the book where many of the photos from the book were being sold, there were at least four undercover police to try to catch out the street artists.

Melbourne is known across the world as the number one place for graffiti and street art, which is an added tourist attraction for people. One former Mayor of the City of Yarra suggested printing a street art guide for tourists to show them all the best spots.

Melbourne prides itself on its reputation for culture and the arts yet prohibit one of the things that makes it most famous.


Suggested solutions to the Issue

As suggested in Alison Young’s research there needs to be control areas for graffiti art. By creating zero tolerance zones, the Council is going to create even more damage. If the Council removes the art from sites around the central business district such as Degraves Lane, Hosier Lane and Croft’s Lane the Council will be ensuring that there will be a backlash by both graffiti and stencil artists.

These areas are culturally significant, not only to the public but also to the artists and these should not be touched. The City Lights projects, exhibitions and events such as the NEXT Wave Festival utilise these lanes and their individuality throughout the year.

The Victorian government and the Melbourne City Council fund many of these events. During the redevelopment of the city square, a Melbourne artist DEST painted a wall of the construction zone. This wall was taken down and bubble wrapped by the Council for preservation.

In 2005, Arts Victoria funded the Melbourne Stencil Festival, which is an exhibition for more than a week of stencil art with guest speakers and demonstrations.

The Council does not have one concrete view on this policy. They are saying that they have zero tolerance yet funding and even buying works by street artists. The Council needs to work together with the artists and the individual council’s that want to keep the art.

The Council also needs to consider the business owners who wish to keep the art on their walls and give them greater rights and the ability to keep it. The Council itself has however kept murals on hoardings and other areas because it realised that it wouldn’t get tagged on or more graffiti added to it if there was already ‘aerosol art’ on it.

The Council needs to give the policy more consideration, simply adding more money to the budget to paint over graffiti is not a solution. Graffiti will not go away purely by painting over it, the taggers and artists alike see this as giving them a fresh canvas.

However, the Council could adopt selective buffing, by repainting ‘bad’ graffiti and keeping the aesthetically pleasing graffiti the Council would be able to have some kind of quality control.

The Council cannot continue to fund and buy graffiti and stencil art if they are not going to allow it to be on the street.


Conclusion

In conclusion, the Melbourne City Council’s zero tolerance graffiti policy is destined for failure. They are only ensuring that there will be more graffiti by trying to remove it. The Council has a hypocritical policy on the issue as not all council’s within Melbourne agree with and abide by the policy.

There needs to be further consideration of tolerance zones and the ability of private owners to keep work that they like.

The Council will not be able to fight graffiti alone, it will cost too much and aggravate the public whose money the Council is spending. There needs to be consultation with the graffiti artists and options provided such as funding. Council’s that implement graffiti friendly programs that allow for education and areas where artists are allowed to paint tend to have more success in dealing with graffiti problems. There cannot be a holistic view on dealing with graffiti. Where zero tolerance may work in one area, it will not necessarily work in another.

References
Gabriella Coslovich, The Age, ‘Our Colourful Underbelly’, 4 December 2005
Ashley Frost, 2003, ‘Graffiti and Public Art’, presented at the Graffiti and Disorder counsel.
Nicholas Hansen, Rash, Documentary, Distributed by Madman, 2005
Melbourne City Council:
Graffiti Management Plan, The City of Melbourne, 2006
Graffiti Facts, The City of Melbourne, 2006
Alison Young, Graffiti Strategy, Draft for Consultation, 2005

Websites
http://blogs.theage.com.au/yoursay/arch ... ffiti.html
http://www.rageaustralia.com
http://www.casey.vic.gov.au/mediareleas ... ?Item=6290
http://www.theage.com.au/news/arts/our- ... tml?page=6
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/ ... 42116.html

therer is also the full draft you can download here, with ALL the options they didnt consider...

http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/info.cf ... 8&upg=1800
User avatar
flippo
Posts: 6277
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 7:21 pm
Location: Catnip
Contact:

Post by flippo »

Image
User avatar
ghetto kitty
Posts: 13157
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 1:40 pm
Contact:

Post by ghetto kitty »

sweet handstyle man!!!

:wink:
User avatar
C.I.A.
Posts: 5737
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:46 pm
Location: Hoth

Post by C.I.A. »

flippo wrote:Image
:smt044

Dude. You are wasting your time with science. Hidden talent ahoy :lol:
I wanted to be a hero. I wanted to be the center of attention. I wanted the glory, I wanted the fame. I wanted the pretty girls to come up and say, "Hi, I see that you're good at Centipede."
User avatar
FoundationStepper
Posts: 3556
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:55 am

Post by FoundationStepper »

GK - so is this "policy" in your opinion no differnt to the earlier zero tolerance policy?

just reworded?
User avatar
shepherd
Posts: 2836
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:13 am
Location: Tehran
Contact:

Post by shepherd »

interesting ... some of the graf lobby are so self righteous about the whole thing - you'd almost forget it's illegal!!!

wish we had the same sort of consultative legislation process for drug dealing or music piracy!
User avatar
lynt
Posts: 16011
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:14 pm
Contact:

Post by lynt »

shepherd wrote:wish we had the same sort of consultative legislation process for drug dealing or music piracy!
Contrary to popular belief, drug dealing or music piracy doesn't require talent. ;)
User avatar
ghetto kitty
Posts: 13157
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 1:40 pm
Contact:

Post by ghetto kitty »

foundation >

huh? the essay was written by a woman who didnt support the zero tolerance policy.

i have provided the link at the bottom to the actual graffiti draft....
Last edited by ghetto kitty on Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
deviant
Posts: 18213
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:52 pm
Location: couch
Contact:

Post by deviant »

ghetto kitty wrote:It also represents the building owners and the general public that do not want graffiti removed.
...............................
Suggested solutions to the Issue
...................
The Council also needs to consider the business owners who wish to keep the art on their walls and give them greater rights and the ability to keep it.
This unconsidered point has just occurred, that is what this thread is about. Surely it's a step in the right direction? :? :?:
User avatar
FoundationStepper
Posts: 3556
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:55 am

Post by FoundationStepper »

for fucks sake the artistic /cultural merit counts for something, depite the fact its illegal
User avatar
deviant
Posts: 18213
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:52 pm
Location: couch
Contact:

Post by deviant »

illegal = bad

understand?
User avatar
FoundationStepper
Posts: 3556
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:55 am

Post by FoundationStepper »

uuuuhhhhhh
User avatar
ghetto kitty
Posts: 13157
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 1:40 pm
Contact:

Post by ghetto kitty »

i have to point out that the essay was in SUPPORT of street art,

the draft that examined the options is different, and then the policy passed through is different again.

i dont know any legal jargon....to articulate properly, but i read the entire draft, there are some GREAT solutions in there, from cities where they have a thriving graff scene from these ways of dealing with it. berlin is one.

and i know the bones of whats been passed, and NO IMO its NOT a astep in the right direction, which is why most alleys look fucknig shitful at the moment and all theartists we know and love are not bombing, but doing shows like letterheads and per square meter instead.
User avatar
shepherd
Posts: 2836
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:13 am
Location: Tehran
Contact:

Post by shepherd »

lynt wrote:
shepherd wrote:wish we had the same sort of consultative legislation process for drug dealing or music piracy!
Contrary to popular belief, drug dealing or music piracy doesn't require talent. ;)
hehe very true :)

Personally I think the city needs a clean up - there is lots of great stuff but the place is so cluttered!! Posters, stencils, murals, tags, pieces etc etc ... it looks grimey and I think needs to be rid of a lot of it
User avatar
flippo
Posts: 6277
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 7:21 pm
Location: Catnip
Contact:

Post by flippo »

C.I.A. wrote:
flippo wrote:Image
:smt044

Dude. You are wasting your time with science. Hidden talent ahoy :lol:
clearly I am wasting my time with spelling also!

the fllipo, was not, I repeat, not deliberate.

Dyslexic crew inaside da ride
User avatar
deviant
Posts: 18213
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:52 pm
Location: couch
Contact:

Post by deviant »

total :lol: @ Fllipo
User avatar
Blaxter
Posts: 7050
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:30 am
Location: Cuba
Contact:

Post by Blaxter »

illegal = the man don't like it
User avatar
ghetto kitty
Posts: 13157
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 1:40 pm
Contact:

Post by ghetto kitty »

shepherd wrote: Personally I think the city needs a clean up - there is lots of great stuff but the place is so cluttered!! Posters, stencils, murals, tags, pieces etc etc ... it looks grimey and I think needs to be rid of a lot of it
i wholeheartedly agree.

but the city only looks like that since the commonwealth games.

when paint is aruond $12 to $15 a can, and you need at least four-eight to do a good wall, i dont blame artists for not wanting to spend thier time, cash and risk possible shit just to create.

id rather go into a gallery where i make some $ and get some recognition too.
User avatar
deviant
Posts: 18213
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:52 pm
Location: couch
Contact:

Post by deviant »

ghetto kitty wrote:and i know the bones of whats been passed, and NO IMO its NOT a astep in the right direction, which is why most alleys look fucknig shitful at the moment and all theartists we know and love are not bombing, but doing shows like letterheads and per square meter instead.
How can you say that the latest change is the cause of the current bad state of graf in alleys when it only just occured? We only got the email this morning.
User avatar
shepherd
Posts: 2836
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:13 am
Location: Tehran
Contact:

Post by shepherd »

disagree ghetto kitty

the city has looked like shit generally for the past 5 years ... nothing to do with the comm games. If anything it's looking better now.

Most cities I've been to (which isn't that many) do not look as scrawled on as melbourne ... NY, Tokyo, HK, Phila, Sydney etc ... they don't look like they are a virtual notepad for bored dudes.

I mean ffs - people in Melb graf trees!!!
cammo
Posts: 1894
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:49 pm
Location: north melb

Post by cammo »

ghetto kitty wrote:tagging sucks, yes.
tagging rocks
one example, krink markers are my favs
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
deviant
Posts: 18213
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:52 pm
Location: couch
Contact:

Post by deviant »

that last one is pretty cool....

btw, does anyone know what those green boxes on the street are? I've always wondered since one appeared outside my old house in northcote years ago. They look like post boxes but they have no slot, they don't seam to have any wires or place for any wires to connect to anything either.
cammo
Posts: 1894
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:49 pm
Location: north melb

Post by cammo »

ghetto kitty wrote:
shepherd wrote: Personally I think the city needs a clean up - there is lots of great stuff but the place is so cluttered!! Posters, stencils, murals, tags, pieces etc etc ... it looks grimey and I think needs to be rid of a lot of it
i wholeheartedly agree.
i disagree
guys sound like old people. city looks shit, does it make you feel insecure?
i love how the city is grimey, fuck grey walls
adds flava
crawl before ya run
Image
User avatar
deviant
Posts: 18213
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:52 pm
Location: couch
Contact:

Post by deviant »

Some people like it dark and grimey, not clean and pristine. Just like some people like dark tunes and don't like happy and cheesey music.
User avatar
aspekt
Posts: 1206
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 6:29 pm
Location: me!bourne

Post by aspekt »

deviant wrote:that last one is pretty cool....

btw, does anyone know what those green boxes on the street are? I've always wondered since one appeared outside my old house in northcote years ago. They look like post boxes but they have no slot, they don't seam to have any wires or place for any wires to connect to anything either.
I think they're distribution points for the mail. Like a van will dump a sack of mail in there and then the actual posties will collect from there and chuck it in your mail box.
There's no justice, just us.
User avatar
shepherd
Posts: 2836
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:13 am
Location: Tehran
Contact:

Post by shepherd »

nah it doesn't make me feel insecure - i just think it looks shit.

i don't like grey walls either - but that's not to say the alternative of shit everywhere is any better

there must be a half way point

taggers should practice on their parents car or there nintendo wii - or whatever shit they value. why should i pay for some punk kid to practice his 'art' on my wall?
User avatar
marcus
Posts: 2511
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 1:08 pm
Location: Perth.

Post by marcus »

deviant wrote:
btw, does anyone know what those green boxes on the street are? I've always wondered since one appeared outside my old house in northcote years ago. They look like post boxes but they have no slot, they don't seam to have any wires or place for any wires to connect to anything either.
Posties collect more mail on their runs from those boxes.
Stylus Radio :: Every 2nd Sunday :: 6-8pm AEST :: http://www.nsbradio.co.uk
cammo
Posts: 1894
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:49 pm
Location: north melb

Post by cammo »

straight up deviant. wotever floats ya boat.
by the way im not getting into a arguement here. no point
we are all allowed to have our opinons
ying and yang. two sides to a story
just hope not everyone looks at tagging in a evil light
Image
User avatar
Blaxter
Posts: 7050
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:30 am
Location: Cuba
Contact:

Post by Blaxter »

shepherd wrote:nah it doesn't make me feel insecure - i just think it looks shit.

i don't like grey walls either - but that's not to say the alternative of shit everywhere is any better

there must be a half way point

taggers should practice on their parents car or there nintendo wii - or whatever shit they value. why should i pay for some punk kid to practice his 'art' on my wall?
Which wall do you own?
User avatar
shepherd
Posts: 2836
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:13 am
Location: Tehran
Contact:

Post by shepherd »

figure of speech dude ... i don't own any walls
User avatar
ghetto kitty
Posts: 13157
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 1:40 pm
Contact:

Post by ghetto kitty »

im not arguing either.
i love drippy paint shit, i have tagged my way around too.

theres art, and then theres art.
one persons favorite piece is a piece of shit in someone elses eyes.

its all a matter of perception.

i have been talking about this topic for WAAY too long.
this draft has been in the making for nearly two years deviant.

ill do my own art, ill appreciate whats aruond, but shep, it has rapidly declined in the last two years. most of the great artists arent doing shit on the streets.
User avatar
deviant
Posts: 18213
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:52 pm
Location: couch
Contact:

Post by deviant »

No one owns shit in reality, only really your own body (even that's debatable). Ownership is purely an abstract perception. So is "the law" for that matter.

fucken whatever really, anarchy and chaos will always be there showing it's face no matter what happens. Ownership, laws, blah blah, nothing can stop it, it's a fact of life.

ooooooo deep
User avatar
shepherd
Posts: 2836
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:13 am
Location: Tehran
Contact:

Post by shepherd »

in philadelphia they wanted to curb graf (ie tagging)_ ... so they invested in workshops for people to learn how to paint etc ... and had a shitload of spaces available for legal pieces/murals ... some of these look awesome and really help shape the look of the city - and a lot are extremely high impact (ie 3-4 stories high)

It'd be great to see some of this happen in Melbourne and some really great outdoor art spaces in the city that allowed it to still have character.
User avatar
ghetto kitty
Posts: 13157
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 1:40 pm
Contact:

Post by ghetto kitty »

if it was up to me, this city, and every grey fuckin city would be an ever changing mural of kaliedescopic amazment.

but its not up to me.

and i have done a lot of getting sponsorship from melb council, pushing street art events, encouraging artists to do more than just galleries....

so i feel some responsibility to sit somewhere on the fence, with my marker.
cammo
Posts: 1894
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:49 pm
Location: north melb

Post by cammo »

funny philly tags are the most varied styles out there
but kitty you have gone tagging in the past but hate it now? wot fence you sitting on?
Image
Post Reply