Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

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ghetto kitty
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by ghetto kitty »

HearNoEvil wrote: I'm sorry. We thought you meant in a kind of "we go to yours if you come to ours" kind of way. Going to gigs of people you dont know is great but, I think alot of local gigs are starving for an audience and I see alot of people kind of make, promotion pacts with eachother.
I think those kind of "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" scenarios are deconstructive. But yeah, just going to a gig to see what new local talent is up to is always good. I'm sorry I just miss understood you.
I still dont really see your point. I often go to my friends gigs to support them, even if the music isnt nessecarily 100% up my alley. I have no idea why you would think that people supporitng their friends/peers events would be deconstructive, are you from Melbourne? Perhaps in a smaller place it may be like that, I spent some time in Adelaide and it was clicky as all hell in certain scenes, but I dont see the problem in too many people supporting your gigs, whether you know them or not, as long as the venues have the capacity to hold them.
Your comments sound like they are directed at a specific group of people or certain crews, not the bigger picture, so ill just leave it at that for now, becasue the rest of this thread has been very constructive.

funkyj - some interesting comments. re writing for street press, i know it must be frustrating, imo its the same as arts funding or the festival circuit, you knock and knock and knock at the door and unless you know the right people, and your in the right place, right time, you dont even get a toe in the door. then once you do, your in the circle and its much easier after that. tbh my dealing s with most street press makes me NOT want to write for them. And most of the good writers/editors move on reasonably quickly to other things.

re direct advertsing and TV- personally when i see any music events marketed on TV my first reaction is 'SELL OUT SCHLOCK" because only the massive events like Sensation have the budget to do so. How would you want to be more direct marketed at for music stuff, do you think FB is that?
I get tired of irrelevant stuff too, there should be a promoter help page so people can be shown how to make lists of their friends to invite to specific stuff ( I have one for art and one for music, with some crossover), how tagging can lessen some spamming, how its not really cool to tag people in flyers who arent playing or have nothing to do with the event blah blah.

I reckon i could write a How To guide or Do's and Dont's stating ettiquete rules for FB promotions.

alex phonetics - i find your point interesting, because hand hand to hand promotions are currently the MOST effective way for pretty much all gigs at Libertine. Maybe your flyers arent exciting enough, maybe you are giving them to people at the wrong moments (like as they walk out of a gig trashed) but for the money you spend on them, i feel they are very effective.
dunno, but agree that A0's are too expensive for what they do.
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by DBoy »

I just learnt of a gig I didn't know was happening off an AO in a backstreet in Richmond.
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ghetto kitty
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by ghetto kitty »

backstreet A0s are good.
however, most of the places you see banks of posters, even on derelict buildings, are owned by the poster distro companies. And theres only 3 in town.
and most of the ones put in backstreets can get you a whopping fine. We got one last year $1200 for one a0 on Gertrude st.
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by Mysty »

I kno it's a a slight side step but the posts on having good hosts I agree with in the sense of friendly staff.. A friend and I were discussing this recently..

Door girls/boys--- u are the first point of call -why-oh-why do you always greet people with your shitty "I am better than u and fuck off and go home" attitude? What ever happened to being greeted with a smile & a positive attitude. We all jus want to pay/enter the gig to hav sum fun. We are not trying to start a fight. If u hate ir job so much, then quit!

The (few) times I have worked the door I always make a special effort to make people feel welcome. It's the number 1 rule of customer service!!

//sorry end rAnt and side-step of topic/// :-)

A0s & fliers are great
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by Mysty »

^^ and that doesn't apply to all gigs/staff either, I have definately had a few friendly greetings on entry!! jus majority are crap ;-)
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by same o »

okay this is my opinion.

Flyers are by far the best way of getting your brand out there. I don't think that you can really say yep this is better or that is better because alone allot of these mediums are not effective at all.

A marketing campaign is designed to give maximum exposure to a specific brand or event or what ever. If a party/brand/whatever has enough money then I think a good mix of media materials are worth while as the whole idea is to give positive reinforcement of your brand/party/whatever (the more out there the more aware people are).

When we did Ramadanman having a front cover with beat definatley helped a lot. We saw a massive spike in ticket sales that day and the day after, was this completely to do with the add??? I wouldnt have a clue but it did look like it helped. For me at the moment as we can no longer use upstairs at the Mercat I have scaled down heaps of what we used to do and now focus on posters/flyers/internet promotion simply for its cost effectiveness. If I could afford to do an add I would but at the end of the day I would prefer to maximise the potential amount of $$ that I can bring in and minimise the amount that I could loose. To me street press seems to be the hardest to gauge if it is working or not as it is a lot harder to get direct feed back on that medium.

I am testing out what works the best for us at the moment and cutting materials from my budget to try work out what works for me, at the end of the day I think it would work differently for every one.
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by ghetto kitty »

agree that the attitudes of door people and security can make or break your night mysty.
Ive done my fair share of door bitching over time, i think its the ones who work for venues and not for crews that end up being nasty, cos none of their friends are turning up so they just do the 'bitch' part :lol:

same o - also agree that a mix of mediums is needed. im about to work with a printing company putting together poster/flyer/sticker packages for people who may just have a dollar amount and wish to get a good spread of those things for a nice figure that they have budgeted for.
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by EvilSnakeWoman »

oh and i was thinking, what about backpackers? theyr a fresh face to a repetative scene, prob know the international djs better than us, they're heaps of em and they like booze.... maybe bombs some hostels with flyers & stuff? ...make friends with the yokels. :D
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by ghetto kitty »

most hostels have bars inside them and as a result, don't let us promoters near them.

stupid but true.

;)
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by HearNoEvil »

ghetto kitty wrote:
HearNoEvil wrote: I'm sorry. We thought you meant in a kind of "we go to yours if you come to ours" kind of way. Going to gigs of people you dont know is great but, I think alot of local gigs are starving for an audience and I see alot of people kind of make, promotion pacts with eachother.
I think those kind of "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" scenarios are deconstructive. But yeah, just going to a gig to see what new local talent is up to is always good. I'm sorry I just miss understood you.
I still dont really see your point. I often go to my friends gigs to support them, even if the music isnt nessecarily 100% up my alley. I have no idea why you would think that people supporitng their friends/peers events would be deconstructive, are you from Melbourne? Perhaps in a smaller place it may be like that, I spent some time in Adelaide and it was clicky as all hell in certain scenes, but I dont see the problem in too many people supporting your gigs, whether you know them or not, as long as the venues have the capacity to hold them.
Your comments sound like they are directed at a specific group of people or certain crews, not the bigger picture, so ill just leave it at that for now, becasue the rest of this thread has been very constructive.

funkyj - some interesting comments. re writing for street press, i know it must be frustrating, imo its the same as arts funding or the festival circuit, you knock and knock and knock at the door and unless you know the right people, and your in the right place, right time, you dont even get a toe in the door. then once you do, your in the circle and its much easier after that. tbh my dealing s with most street press makes me NOT want to write for them. And most of the good writers/editors move on reasonably quickly to other things.

re direct advertsing and TV- personally when i see any music events marketed on TV my first reaction is 'SELL OUT SCHLOCK" because only the massive events like Sensation have the budget to do so. How would you want to be more direct marketed at for music stuff, do you think FB is that?
I get tired of irrelevant stuff too, there should be a promoter help page so people can be shown how to make lists of their friends to invite to specific stuff ( I have one for art and one for music, with some crossover), how tagging can lessen some spamming, how its not really cool to tag people in flyers who arent playing or have nothing to do with the event blah blah.

I reckon i could write a How To guide or Do's and Dont's stating ettiquete rules for FB promotions.

alex phonetics - i find your point interesting, because hand hand to hand promotions are currently the MOST effective way for pretty much all gigs at Libertine. Maybe your flyers arent exciting enough, maybe you are giving them to people at the wrong moments (like as they walk out of a gig trashed) but for the money you spend on them, i feel they are very effective.
dunno, but agree that A0's are too expensive for what they do.
Ghetto Kitty: Theres TRUE friends, and Facebook friends. Facebook has reuinted me with my true friends and I am greatful for that. It has also had the rest of them begg me for support. Unfortunately, we are all comepetitors turning to eachother for support. Thats why I think our support system as it is isn't really a support system at all. Its neatly dressed up as a communal kind of thing, but, isn't really more than one small group trying to steal a guest list off another.

The venue needs heads to opperate, Djs want to further their popularity as Djs, they throw a gig and then turn to media and marketting in order to get the heads through the door to keep the venue operating so they can keep playing and thus further along their own career. People get nagged to come to gigs tho. It feels so tacky. Even posting gigs on forums feels tacky to me. We still do it tho because our competitors (Who beg for our support) are and so, always gotta stay one step ahead of the Joneses if you want to be the best gig in town. But, we don't ask our competitors for support. Fuck them, they are our competitors for a reason. Its tribal, its turf war. Its straight up gangsta shit. Ok it's not half as bad as that, but, its clearly bullshit that everyone see's through. People are using MARKETTING to do the next best thing. They are not changing the product or offering a better one though. All that is ever being promoted is a few Djs. Thats it. Fancy art work to present some Djs. Whether they are famous or not doesn't matter. Dj's are an outdated product. I work with alot of Djs now on this gig but if I had my own way, I'd have 1 Dj all night and thats it. Then I would change the product.

For example, theres an old 80's movie called Rock N Wrestling, where this band starts rocking out during these pro wrestling bouts. The movie is about a new concept, a new product. The product of people going out and dancing isn't new, but in the movie, going out and dancing or listening to rock music whilst you watch the wrestling is. The marketting methods are all useless unless they have a product of value. You can only sell Ice to an Eskimo for so long before he figures out how to make it for himself and cuts off his supply from you.
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by aroes »

heed this guy's advice bo, he speaks truth

that rock n wrestling analogy has me converted

also the way 'marketing' is now spelt 'marketting'

you know it makes sense
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by shepherd »

interesting thread.

re street press ... the reality is ppl under 25 don't read it generally. If you want ppl over 25 at your events it's an okay medium but it skews older than most. I'm 32 and I find most ppl my age who grew up with street press still like it, however most people under 25 find it novel at best. We did a research piece with 5000 18-29's and street press is way down in the priority list for information around going out and events. Just because you can pick it up doesn't mean anyone is.

dan - you mentioned ITM is potentially too expensive and doesn't work. Keen to find out why that is. Generally online ads are lower pound for pound (when you look at audience reach/clutter) than any other medium. If we're talking upfront investment it may be more than a FPC but if it reaches twice the audience for 50% more it could be considered more efficient. Second issue is that when something is digital it's tempting to defer to linear measurement like click or ticket sales to judge ROI ... when that's flawed, especially if there's an awareness job to do. I am not saying this is relevant for you but keen to find out why it didn't work.

things like posters are great but as someone who has done them previously (7 years ago) i sometimes think they're a mix of vanity project meets security blanket. because they're tactile they feel a bit more secure than other mediums (esp. digital) and because sometimes they're loud they can help with ego. If you transferred the clutter of pole posters/cafe posters/rock posters into any other medium it would be so cluttered you'd expect zero cut through. An A0 poster can cost $15 and might reach maybe 50-60 qualified people. That's expensive. Rock posters even more. I think legal outdoor - think buspaks, street furniture, large format - is a great medium and has been used by people like Jam, Future, Bass Jump etc and generates a lot of visibility and a clean environment

for clubs, the personal method can be the best from experience. clubs are meant to be relatively exclusive (to a level) and not for EVERYONE. Person to person flyering whilst tough on resource is amazingly effective. I remember years ago I saw Dan (not picking on you Dan) at Honky's promoting an early RLT party or maybe a Stylus ... anyway, I spoke with him for 5 mins and I could see he actually gave a sh*t about the event. I found that pretty interesting that he would chat to me about the event, why he was doing it and what he wanted it to be like and I went to the event as a result. If Dan had 50 similar chats it would bring in 100 people or more and I am sure that's what he did. If a group has 5 Dan's they could personally bring in 500 people. 10 Dans, maybe 1000. It's a lot harder than smashing electronic and broadcast channels, and take a lot more charisma and effort, but the reward is significant. Long term successful venues rely on this - Prince, Revolver, Teriyaki, Honkys, Lounge (in the 90's especially), QBar at its peak, Redhead ... had really strong person to person promoters.

Generally, club/music ad investment (not marketing but solely advertsing component) is hit and miss and inefficient. There are exceptions but across the board it's often more about ticking boxes than anything strategic.
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by huge »

i used to pick up inpress all the time just to look at the upcoming gigs that were on at the hi-fi huhu.

haven't read it in about 6 years now i reckon.
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by HearNoEvil »

I think you need to look at who your selling these club nights to. The general club market would be roughly 18-30 years old. They've grown up being flogged by advertising and have learned that everyone is going to make their item sound as if its the best in order to sell it. They also know that because it's been done to death, people will take the opposite approach in order to use a kind of, reverse method. You know? When you can't have something is when you want it most. If people make out they don't need the numbers, maybe the numbers will feel like they need the particular club.

Point is, they're not stupid. Not by along shot, infact, alot are probably smarter than the Dj's and promoters hosting the gigs. Theyre hassled by Dj's and promoters everyday and its not cool to be a Dj anymore or a promoter or to be connected. Theres no secret method to any of this and to be honest when it comes down to the night of the gig I always wonder "Did we get these numbers because of our posters or the internet or are we just lucky?" and I wish I knew so then I could cut out the ones that aren't effective to save time, money and effort on them.

People know their shit now. You can't trick them into thinking your Dj is the best ever because you've put "(insert every gig they've ever played here)" beneath their name. Everyone still does it tho because if they don't, then they run the chance of missing the one person who might recognise the name and say "Gee I've heard one song off that label no one knows about on Sound Cloud. I'll check him out"

I think it comes down to frequency. I honestly think the more frequent you have an event, the more you give people the chance to come to it and the more you can build it from there. I understand venues are extremely hectic to try that, but its how you create a regular community. When everything is all once a month, people have too much time and it always comes down to "Which Dj friends do I have to support this month?" instead of "this one is every friday, I can skip it this week to see my other friends gig and it wont go away."
The marketing isn't in the images and visuals or wording. Its in the offer on the table. If you're offering just another gig where people have to go out of their way to support you again, for another gig your hosting which will be the same as the last but between a different 4 walls, then yeah, they may come, but will they come back? If you can offer a community which will recognise them as individuals, make them feel comfortable and at home all the time they will come back. If they know you are there for them when they want to party, they'll come back.
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by EvilSnakeWoman »

shepherd wrote: Prince, Revolver, Teriyaki, Honkys, Lounge (in the 90's especially), QBar at its peak, Redhead ... had really strong person to person promoters...
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

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HearNoEvil wrote:Theres no secret method to any of this and to be honest when it comes down to the night of the gig I always wonder "Did we get these numbers because of our posters or the internet or are we just lucky?" and I wish I knew so then I could cut out the ones that aren't effective to save time, money and effort on them..
word... so hard to judge
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by fooishbar »

HearNoEvil wrote:I think it comes down to frequency. I honestly think the more frequent you have an event, the more you give people the chance to come to it and the more you can build it from there. I understand venues are extremely hectic to try that, but its how you create a regular community. When everything is all once a month, people have too much time and it always comes down to "Which Dj friends do I have to support this month?" instead of "this one is every friday, I can skip it this week to see my other friends gig and it wont go away."
it cuts both ways tho ... less frequent = more special. heavy innit have seen their numbers leap since they started doing only 4 a year, rather than ~14. i'm shit at making it to weeklies, because i say 'ah bugger it, i'll go next week', and never do.
HearNoEvil wrote:The marketing isn't in the images and visuals or wording. Its in the offer on the table. If you're offering just another gig where people have to go out of their way to support you again, for another gig your hosting which will be the same as the last but between a different 4 walls, then yeah, they may come, but will they come back? If you can offer a community which will recognise them as individuals, make them feel comfortable and at home all the time they will come back. If they know you are there for them when they want to party, they'll come back.
that's all good and well, but when i see posters down the street, i'm not thinking about a sense of community, i'm thinking either 'that poster is rad' (rarely), 'meh' (often), or 'great, another poster with a photo off google images blown up so far it's pixelated, with bullshit fonts' (tragically far too often). the community bit only comes once you actually get people in the door, which is where the images, visuals, wording, double a0s and four million gsm double-sided glossy a6s come in.
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by quiet roar »

shepherd wrote:re street press ... the reality is ppl under 25 don't read it generally.
Who the hell would would want kids under 25 at their events?
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by huge »

deviant wrote:
HearNoEvil wrote:Theres no secret method to any of this and to be honest when it comes down to the night of the gig I always wonder "Did we get these numbers because of our posters or the internet or are we just lucky?" and I wish I knew so then I could cut out the ones that aren't effective to save time, money and effort on them..
word... so hard to judge
why don't you get door peeps to survey punters when they come in? not so hard to ask them "how did you find out about the gig?". you might get 50% or more actually telling you something useful when you put them on the spot.

This is one thing i ask at my shop all the time so i can tell what is working and what isn't. Being a massive internet nerd who loves stats and split testing this is something i would think you should do constantly. Could be throwing your money down the drain or leaving a whole lot on the table.
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by deviant »

shepherd wrote:dan - you mentioned ITM is potentially too expensive and doesn't work. Keen to find out why that is. Generally online ads are lower pound for pound (when you look at audience reach/clutter) than any other medium. If we're talking upfront investment it may be more than a FPC but if it reaches twice the audience for 50% more it could be considered more efficient. Second issue is that when something is digital it's tempting to defer to linear measurement like click or ticket sales to judge ROI ... when that's flawed, especially if there's an awareness job to do. I am not saying this is relevant for you but keen to find out why it didn't work..
It's not that it didn't actually work... I mean, we did have a few clicks, and also a few tix sold online. However, the Princebandroom website outsold ITM/moshtix by 400%, we hardly even promoted that site as a ticket outlet tbh, I think this is just purely down to Prince's massive email database. ITM is (at minimum) double what we would spend for any other medium at any time, but definitely not double as good. I liked the ego thing of seeing our massive flash banner on the site tbh, but that's the same with A0s you feel good when you see your gig posted up everywhere. We don't think A0s are worth the ~$6+ per poster any more, hence we don't do them. I think the same would apply here.
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by ghetto kitty »

yep, interesting comments everyone.

so perhaps we are reinventing the wheel a little bit at a time, but the only way we can do that is to understand who we are marketing to.

There's events i help promoters with strategies are that totally speak to the 18-25 age bracket, that are more focused on being 'cool' and 'the place to be' for certain subcultures than the music they play, and there's others the are purely targeting the 25-35 year old music lovers who live and breathe music every day of their lives, and I wanted this thread to give me an idea of both what the promoters in know here think works and whats speaking to the older ones (as thats the MB demographic mostly)

hearnoevil - i agree with some of your points but i totally dont agree that the Dj is an outdated concept.

shep - i also think online marketing done right has way more steam than print media mostly, but we are kind of the first generation to use this medium, so we are all learning as we go along a bit. Every Picture was a good example of a crew that used to get huge numbers from no online marketing, and then when they did the party this year, their online marketing did not speak to anyone using this medium now, and as a result, the party didnt pull either the younger demographic or many of the older of us who have adopted these methods in the last ten years.
legal outdoor is a great tool i agree, but only comes with a much bigger budget that the crews you mentioned have to devote to it. Id love to do that stuff, but most of the thing I'm working with promoters on are intimate gigs with punters numbers of under 500, so often out of reach for the smaller guys.

huge - feedback on the night is a very valuable tool, i get my cloakroom people and door girls to ask these questions, and you get suprisingly honest feedback at the time on the night, especially when people have had a few drinks. :lol:

really appreciate all of your opinions, i hassled a couple promoters i know are lurking here, asking them why they wont put their 2 cents in, and they said 'thanks bo, your doing all this market research for us!"
but really, i have nothing to hide, and nothing to gain from doing this in a relatively public place, at the end of all this theory, its about the full package, you can put out the best promo ever but it still needs to be backed up with all the other ingredients for a good party (which we know are, right venue, right music, good sound/decor, friendly people/security, good vibe among all the punters etc etc and none of that has changed since the beginning) to create & maintain a good brand for what you are doing.

I'm all about sharing the love among our networks, and talking about what we can all do better, openly.
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by HearNoEvil »

Fooishbear - I think it depends again on what you have to offer. If you have say, an international or even a very popular local, then yeah monthly is great, but when you're just putting on locals fresh from a bedroom who no one knows of who have done 1 opening set at a mediocre club because it came with the fee they paid to get into Dj school, then I think people say "well whose this? Who cares if its once a month I'm not going anyway because I don't know what it is", where as weekly they have the oppertunity to say "I can't find anything on this week, I'll check out this little local thing for a change" and know it will be available to them. But you are absolutely correct. Both versions have there pro's and their cons. I prefer weekly because, then I do shit like leave equipment etc allready set up for the next week. I kinda, stream line everything until it becomes simpler so then me and the guys can focus on the artistic side of Djing and Vjing in order to put on a better show. But it does mean you have to work harder to make every week more original as opposed to every month.

Huge- I think when you ask them "How did you hear of us" you have allready sold your intentions to them. They'll know straight off the bat "These guys are desperate for more numbers at the next gig so they're going all out on marketing techniques and campaigns and shit." I think thats how you eradicate the sense of community in these gigs because people automatically cotton on that they are business, not friends.

I think, obviously people don't look at a gig with a google image and say "wow I'm going to make new friends here and be part of a community that accepts me", because I think people today have learned to survive with out that because we live in a "it's all about me" society full of spoiled brats. Which is why things like art work are important, because they have seen everything and want something that will blow them away. Pictures are expensive, alot more expensive than songs. $2 for an Mp3. $5 or $10 for a Jpeg. To have people say "I'm tired of seeing Jpegs off google blown up and pixelated" etc just goes to show, especially on this forum that the target audience knows their shit and that you can't sell them a pretty poster.

Selling DJ's is like selling, Danoz direct, kinda. When you see a thousand of the same product on Tv you become immune to it. Its when your at the supermarket and you see it on the shelf that you scrutinize it closer and decide whether or not to buy it. Its not the advertising of the product on TV alot of the time, its more, the packaging. So, how do you package a gig? The packaging of the gig is how it APPEARS on the night. Thats when things like, making people wait inline even though nobody is inside comes in. Get a line started people think "fuck theres a rocking crowd in there, look at that line!". .. Or a really dodgey one. "Hey would you like to be part of our mailing list? You can find out when the next gig is" and you show them and theres like, 37 fake e-mails and shit filled in to make it look like everyone wants to know about your gig.

Promoters and Djs (Myself included sometimes), scrutinise this shit ALL THE TIME. Its ridiculous to even think about it because it draws energy from the product. But when you're in such a saturated market, then I guess you have to consider how to be ahead. Its a dirty game and not one I enjoy. Thats why I strongly beleive, and those who make up our group that word of mouth will be our success. If we have a GREAT gig. With GREAT djs and a great crowd (quality, not quantity) and a great Vj show and just, great features and try to make our gig better in that respect, it may take time but people leave saying "that was a good gig, I'll bring my friends next time" and it grows and grows and grows.

How many promoters out there watch The Gruen Transfer on Abc to try and find better ways to promote? Be honest!
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

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on a side note if any one is interested in cheap a2 printing/distro in the city give us a pm :wink:
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by huge »

HearNoEvil wrote:Huge- I think when you ask them "How did you hear of us" you have allready sold your intentions to them. They'll know straight off the bat "These guys are desperate for more numbers at the next gig so they're going all out on marketing techniques and campaigns and shit." I think thats how you eradicate the sense of community in these gigs because people automatically cotton on that they are business, not friends.
i really doubt that would be the case tbh. i have quite a bit of experience in tracking and split testing campaigns in the real world and online. sure you will not get everyone but you'll at least get something which is better than nothing. pity the fools that think the way you see them thinking.
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by ghetto kitty »

hearnoevil, you sound pretty jaded about the whole scene man, punters and djs alike.

and yes, i watch the gruen transfer but its not for my own events, it because im truly interested in advertising, whether its at a grassroots or global level. why would anyone deny that?
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by HearNoEvil »

Ghetto Kitty + Huge: I watch it to :D .. Advertising on a whole is great, but I think some things should be left sacred. We advertise everything nowdays. We nag people to death with it. Somethings should just be left for people to make up their own mind over. I think, the relationship between venue and patron is sacred. Forgive me for sounding like a hippy, but a venue creates memories for people. People assosciate memories with places. Thats why places are sacred in our life. Sometimes even if its not our own memory, sometimes other peoples memories become sacred and turned into stories and lands become holy lands. Whether thats right or wrong (Cue arguement about how religion has fucked up the world), I just think we focus way too much today about profits as opposed to, breaking even in a sense that, yeah its nice to make more and have more but sometimes that want and need for more can destroy something beautiful.

I love setting up the equipment and decor etc personally. I try to leave the advertising to the other guys. But, yeah I think, how would you feel if you went to a brothel and the hooker is getting you hard and horny and suddenly she says "hey can you fill out this paper to tell us how you heard of us?" I think the same about gigs but obviously not to that extreme. I think, your outside, you hear the music, your dieing to get in, then your asked, "hey can you fill this out" its like "FUCK!! Get off my ass allready and let me fuck off and dance!" its a little too invasive for my liking. As alot of club promoting and advertising is. As is political advertising and religious. Its getting too invasive and too in your face. And yeah, they're trying shock tactics to get you to pay attention, but, maybe if we were all calmer about it all more people, when the midst in their lives has cleared, would sit back and listen to what we have to offer?

As I said, advertising on a whole is great, it's interesting, but I think the relationship between a venue and punter is sacred and is something that should be left to decide itself. We shouldn't have the media telling us what gigs are the best to go to, we should decide for ourselves. We should go out more and more to discover for ourselves who we are and where we fit in society. We should be open minded to new concepts and all that jazz and art should be sacred as well. I think we are just whoring creativity in this field and industry, but, there is still decency around and I am greatful for that. So, I love what we do as a whole. .. We are the Mary Magdellins of creativity :P The Bible of dance music may label us as creative whores but years from now on they'll realise we were married to GOD! just kidding

I think I'm the opposite to jaded (well, I like to think that.) I just think, its a party. So, who cares? Come in, have fun, relax, thats it. Heres an invite, ok its on face book, or sms or whatever, who cares, cute its gotta a picture on it. Come down, have a boogie, watch the sun come up and try to be happy until you can join us again for the next one. Or even better, have something to lookforward to in life instead of, the bullshit. These gigs should be looked forward to. When you pollute them with all the effort and responsibility of advertising, you take away so much of that excitment because your energy has been exauhsted on it and I think THATS what REALLY promotes a party on a subcontious level. The energy you expell at the gig itself. Be happy and it will work! :D
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

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fark, epic thread!
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by ghetto kitty »

firstly, way to many religious words and connotations in that post for me man.

but this >>
HearNoEvil wrote: I think I'm the opposite to jaded (well, I like to think that.) I just think, its a party. So, who cares? Come in, have fun, relax, thats it. Heres an invite, ok its on face book, or sms or whatever, who cares, cute its gotta a picture on it. Come down, have a boogie, watch the sun come up and try to be happy until you can join us again for the next one. Or even better, have something to lookforward to in life instead of, the bullshit. These gigs should be looked forward to. When you pollute them with all the effort and responsibility of advertising, you take away so much of that excitment because your energy has been exauhsted on it and I think THATS what REALLY promotes a party on a subcontious level. The energy you expell at the gig itself. Be happy and it will work! :D
Lovely idyllic view you have there, but some of us work full time in this industry, its fun and we love it and I for one have not lost the passion and sight of the reason i began doing this stuff at 18 years old, a long long time ago, but its also my salary, and though I'll never make as much cash as if I was in a variety of other industries (like mainstream advertising for example) I do it for those reasons you have mentioned above, and I'm good at it and I love my job.
But advertising is part of communicating that message your talking about. to write it all off and say that it dissipates the energy created by putting on good gigs is pretty silly in my mind. And, totally counter productive because I dont just want to preach to the converted, the people who already know my gigs, my venues, my crews, I want to bring NEW people in and show them something different, and how does one do that without some form of outside communication?

Stand on the street yelling 'THIS PARTY IS SO AWESOME Y'ALL SHOULD COME INSIDE"

?

:lol:
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

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it's spelled 'you all' :teef:
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by ghetto kitty »

:P

trying to get a rise out of me again foo?

I WILL NOT BITE.

hehehe
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

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fuck! what am i going to do with my holiday now??
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by ghetto kitty »

postulate on marketing methods and their relevance to teeny boppers into justin beiber?

learn to do magic tricks and ill hire you in a few weeks?

find a submarine for us to do parties in to take it to the NEXT level of DEEPNESS?
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by HearNoEvil »

Ghetto Kitty - I grew up in dance music. Its what I know. I've been doing it since I was 16. ... (I'm now 16 and 6 months) :D no, I'm not, but really. Its not about, who knows more or whatever. I just didn't get into it to make posters. I got into it to play music and videos. Yes, Advertising has its place, but it should KNOW its place and not overstep its mark. Its place is important in its own right. All advertising no product makes for a bad gig. Which will fail. Which means you have to do it all over again and make another advertising campaign. What we have now is a scene of all advertising, no talent. Actually that may be unfair to say but, definately there is a huge inbalance.

We are professionals in other aspects of the industry and as I said, there is an inbalance today. Dj's shouldn't be superstars, they should be the person playing music. Vj's shouldn't be outcast or neglected either, same as door chicks. Same as advertisers/ promoters. The advertising shouldn't be the superstar of the show (as in, the art work on it), yeah, it should be great to reflect the talent of the show you are putting on, but then the talent being advertised should back it. The Djs you advertise should be as good at Djing as the Advertiser is at Advertising. The superstar of the show should be the momment itself. Created by the great advertiser who got the great people to attend. The great Dj who played great music to make them dance. The great bar staff who created a great atmosphere. etc etc etc. I don't want to take anything away from advertisers, just I think they have a disproportionate balance in this field today. As Dj's did a few years ago.

Just as Dj's should understand that not everyone is as knowing about music as they are and should respect those who aren't, well advertisers should acknowledge that not all of us are as knowing about advertising and should respect those who aren't. However, in both fields, we have to accept that the average person knows more about music and advertising today than the average person did years ago. People KNOW when someone is trying to sell them shit dressed as gold be it in music or advertising or both, whether they are music/advertising professionals or not.

I just think its HOW we promote thats becoming inappropriate. I think we need to look at 'Who, what, where, when and why' and really take a look at the answers we are brining back to those questions and not only think outside the box, but re-design the box itself.
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by fooishbar »

so, the message is ... don't put on shit gigs? i think everyone here can get behind that.



















































except the breaks kids
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by HearNoEvil »

hahahahahahah! :D
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by flippo »

fooishbar wrote:so, the message is ... don't put on shit gigs?
Bass Station has been going for over a decade.

Jus' sayin'
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by HearNoEvil »

I thought that died a few years ago? I think theres too much focus on whats shit these days
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by ghetto kitty »

hearnoevil - yup, dont put on shit gigs, I get it mate. Trust me. ;)

on another note - In The Mix's what's on event listings is the most retarded system ever. And the new layout is ugly. That is all.
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by Sociopathic »

So I've kinda skim read most of the stuff up there.
I'm too lazy to quote most of it.
I'm a punter...NOTHING ELSE.
I don't mix (I vaugly know how to make a cdj play a cd I want and I can work a fully automatic turntable and occasionally can work a semi automatic turntable without my father screaming at me I can however put music on my stero and play it and stupidly loud volumes and sit in my backyard and drink.) I don't work ANYWHERE within the industry most I have done is run the door only a handlful of times as favours and occasionally gotten in for free doing this.
Reason I'm explaining this is because alot of the stuff that's been posted so far in this thread is still from the perspective of a fellow promoter and what they "feel" works for them and not what the general goer is bothering with.

I see no problem with going "oh hey how did you hera about this gig, if someone actually walked up struck up a convo with me and asked me that I'd quite happily tell them.
Honestly I don't know what HALF of the promoters on here LOOK LIKE let alone had them come up and find out how I'm enjoying the gig or how I found out. Mingle with the CROWD (the ones who have the ability to keep their eyes open and their heads somwhat level on their sholders the other variety will say "MAN THIS GIG IS FUCKING AWESOME YOU'RE THE BEST" start hugging you and not want you to leave your side been there done that)
Everyone has said door people make a difference well how about the promoters making themselves known.
Make people feel welcome and appreciated.

yes the whole "don't put on shit gigs" ok yeah but define "SHIT" Are we talking as defined by the dj chin strokers at the back of the room going "oh this sounds crap this sounds crap these levels are turned up too high this not enough this isn't tuned right or are we talking what the randoms who turn up to DANCE AND HAVE A GOOD TIME define as shit. Trust me from listening to people they are vastly different ideas.

You want new people have something that's gonna draw in different people have promotions (drink ones work) yes you're not always going to get the type of people you want but you might get one or 2 who then tells there friends who tells there friends about this gig they went to and the music they heard etc etc etc etc.

As I mentioned before the MAIN genre's of music mentioned on this forum have a very small select crowd who don't even have a full 6 degree's of seperation it's more like 2, you gotta have SOMETHING to entice people who really don't know much about it to turn up. Eg. Miss libs is prime realestate for 16 floors of people who can think of nothing better than to get COMPELTELY AND UTTERLY WASTED on a friday night (I worked on level 2 for a period of time the only way you got promoted in my campaign was to have the good stuff) use something like this and run with it. (although TBH the QB gives us a free beer for showing a pay slip and 20% off everything all the time) but this can be applied to other place as well little bit of research goes a long way get yourself out their and having something intreiging and new and enticing (think outside the little bass square)
I remember back in the day working in bourke street people would come through my work giving out after work drinks cards for people in the area, pain in arse yes, but I went to a few of the places and enjoyed a drink or 2 and enjoyed going somewhere different.

Something silly as it sounds COLOURS EVERYONE LIKES COLOURS!!! BRIGHT COLOURS MAKE IT LOOK LIKE SOMEONE ATE A BOX OF CRAYONS AND SKILLES AND THEN THREW UP!
it gets people's attention always has, even if it's just to go wtf is that and pick it up even to see what on earth it's about.

Ok that's all for now I think. I may have carried on for a bit but some of the shit i was seeing people write just wasn't relevant IMO in regards to the ordinary punter.
I think one thing i think everyone needs to do is try to stop thinking like a promoter and think "what did I like and enjoy and want from promoters and gigs back when I just turned up to listen, drink, have fun.
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by ghetto kitty »

spme good points in there from a different perspective socio, thnaks.

but this >>
Sociopathic wrote: Eg. Miss libs is prime realestate for 16 floors of people who can think of nothing better than to get COMPELTELY AND UTTERLY WASTED on a friday night (I worked on level 2 for a period of time the only way you got promoted in my campaign was to have the good stuff) use something like this and run with it.
i dont think you mean Libs, we dont have 16 floors?
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by FRAKSHA... »

Scociopathic makes some good points...

drink specials are always a winner, but then you get things like heavy innnit at the weekend with horrendous prices, but its still jammed...

promoting, its a mugs game, i dont envy anyone doing it, its bloody hard work!
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by ghetto kitty »

drink specials can be used to good advantages, but tbh I would rather put on drink specials that look after crew that are already coming to the gig rather than people coming to a place purely for the cheap drinks!
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by enigneyratorelknaw »

A0 Tattoos should do it, or post links on marketing discussion threads :booty:


http://forum.melbournebeats.com/viewtop ... 13&t=21663
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by ghetto kitty »

thats a big buttfase to you too!

;)
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by enigneyratorelknaw »

Aww :smt006
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by HearNoEvil »

Drink specials are great for Thursday Night Uni nights. I did a few gigs in the CBD with massive drink specials years ago and they did nothing to bring people in. It seems to be now days that the more you offer the less people are inclined to come because it passes your gig off as desperate. Kinda like "fuck they have drink specials, they mustn't be getting people, therefor it'll be empty, fuck it lets go somewhere else", the gig we currently run has no drink specials, but the drinks are fair priced and we're receieving decent numbers.

Beer on tap is another thing. Recently a bar I did some on off work for added Stella Artois on tap. They've turned into a live music/ band/ burlesque/ art gallery venue. Anyways, they're under the impression it gets way more people. I don't understand how tho. Wouldn't, the taps themselves then need to be advertised?

I was watching the making of A Clock Work Orange last night and they were saying how the rape scene and the scene where he kills the women with the huge dick and at the start where he bashes the tramp and stuff how they had huge censorship issues with it. However back then censoring something like that meant you were taking away peoples freedoms to watch things like that. I think thats what makes advertising so hard now. People are afraid to be offended now and so, you can't do as much as you'd like to grab their attention on a flyer or something. Or even with a gig.
For example, you can't do things with decor or stuff that offends anyone. But, that offence is what might give that gig the wining factor. Its what will make it interesting and different, but you can't because SOMEONE will ALWAYS get offended. And instead of taking the offence on board, and vieiwng it with intrigue and learning from it, they will report it to the necissary authorities because they are afraid to be offended.

Even smoke machines and strobe lights now. A light offends someone, the smoke offends someone, game over. Gotta pull em out. Your left with, an empty room. Even if its filled with people it still lacks that sensory offence that really drags you into a deeper level of thought.
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Re: Current music marketing methods - your opinions.

Post by HearNoEvil »

Sociopathic you hit the spot. Numbers are small at gigs because its the same circles inviting the same circles. 2 Degrees of seperation. But within those circles if you play something different that might entice the average person off the street in, that circle then sits at the back, strokes their chin and starts crapping on about how you don't really know anything about the centre of their circle.

End of the day its the punters. Djs should be able to play for them, not themselves. I doubt the average person on a dance floor cares about the Dj's artistic evaluation of what he/she is playing. So long as they know their job.
I don't think they care about who put on the gig, so long as its good as far as they can interpret. But to tie in with what I just posted, again, its the people being affraid to get offended. If you do something to entice the outer group in, then the inner circle gets offended. When the inner cirlce gets offended, they just, spread hate. They get nasty about it. "This gig was crap. It was supposed to be REAL trance and the Dj played a Tiesto track", shit like that. They won't see that, the crowd was new, was into Tiesto and loved it, they will only see that it offended their perception and rather than take it on board, they will run in fear from it. Then, when you do that as a Dj, a promoter, whatever, that support group leaves you and your left with nothing. Because all they see is how you offended them by doing something left of their centre, but spot on for the average person.
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