UK Riots

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quiet roar
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Re: UK Riots

Post by quiet roar » Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:48 pm

Hardy wrote:
huge wrote:corporations are more than capable of running things. my bro is a community relations supernintendo for rio tinto. they (as much as everyone would love to hate them) do some amazing work for local indigenous communities in FNQ. i know it is not the same situation as in the UK but essentially, a corporation is required to get something back for their good deeds. doing stuff for nothing is not good business.
:scr1pt:

The majority of people still view corporations as big evil faceless entities of death. You'll find in most cases, corporations do a LOT of good for communities.
Pfft. Corporate greed is the main cause of most of our problems, IMO.

So they give back a little of what they have exploited from us, big-whoopee-do-da!
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Re: UK Riots

Post by DBoy » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:10 pm

Yep - you are exactly right QR. That is why if anyone wants actually change things and not just whinge about it this is where the work is to be done.

Pfft at anyone who sits and talks bleak, points fingers and does nothing to change it all imo.
The "corporate" them you refer to was not something any one person planned, it was a collective social movement. The 'expoloited us' you seem to think you are part of are victims. And pfft to victims who just sit and take it and do nothing to defend themselves. We do have the power and ability as a people to make change - it just takes action. The more social actors we can get working for positive change INSIDE corporates the more influence we are going to have. Not that I expect everyone to work for corporates. We do need people to purchase ethically, we do need people to have conversations about it we do do need social leaders to bring more and more people on baord with a postivie vision of the future.

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Re: UK Riots

Post by deviant » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:32 pm

DBoy wrote:...driving bottom up action.
sounds good

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Re: UK Riots

Post by quiet roar » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:24 pm

DBoy wrote:Yep - you are exactly right QR. That is why if anyone wants actually change things and not just whinge about it this is where the work is to be done.

Pfft at anyone who sits and talks bleak, points fingers and does nothing to change it all imo.
The "corporate" them you refer to was not something any one person planned, it was a collective social movement. The 'expoloited us' you seem to think you are part of are victims. And pfft to victims who just sit and take it and do nothing to defend themselves. We do have the power and ability as a people to make change - it just takes action. The more social actors we can get working for positive change INSIDE corporates the more influence we are going to have. Not that I expect everyone to work for corporates. We do need people to purchase ethically, we do need people to have conversations about it we do do need social leaders to bring more and more people on baord with a postivie vision of the future.
No doubt you are right, Dboy. I'm just too cynical to believe there are enough folk who give a fuck about anything besides their bank account/mortgage/investments... to be able to change anything.
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Re: UK Riots

Post by youthful_implants » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:28 pm

quiet roar wrote:
DBoy wrote:Yep - you are exactly right QR. That is why if anyone wants actually change things and not just whinge about it this is where the work is to be done.

Pfft at anyone who sits and talks bleak, points fingers and does nothing to change it all imo.
The "corporate" them you refer to was not something any one person planned, it was a collective social movement. The 'expoloited us' you seem to think you are part of are victims. And pfft to victims who just sit and take it and do nothing to defend themselves. We do have the power and ability as a people to make change - it just takes action. The more social actors we can get working for positive change INSIDE corporates the more influence we are going to have. Not that I expect everyone to work for corporates. We do need people to purchase ethically, we do need people to have conversations about it we do do need social leaders to bring more and more people on baord with a postivie vision of the future.
No doubt you are right, Dboy. I'm just too cynical to believe there are enough folk who give a fuck about anything besides their bank account/mortgage/investments... to be able to change anything.
there is Bill Gates, surely there's hope.
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Re: UK Riots

Post by Hardy » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:44 pm

quiet roar wrote:
Hardy wrote:
huge wrote:corporations are more than capable of running things. my bro is a community relations supernintendo for rio tinto. they (as much as everyone would love to hate them) do some amazing work for local indigenous communities in FNQ. i know it is not the same situation as in the UK but essentially, a corporation is required to get something back for their good deeds. doing stuff for nothing is not good business.
:scr1pt:

The majority of people still view corporations as big evil faceless entities of death. You'll find in most cases, corporations do a LOT of good for communities.
Pfft. Corporate greed is the main cause of most of our problems, IMO.

So they give back a little of what they have exploited from us, big-whoopee-do-da!
How exactly have corporations affected you directly? How have you been exploited? I'm not having a go, just curious.

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Re: UK Riots

Post by mrj » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:10 pm

Well to be honest I think corporations are exploitational, insofar as they all privatise profits whilst socialising losses, especially if you broaden the definition of losses to impact on the environment, people injured at work etc. I think the financial industry and mining industries are great examples of this.

But this is arguably a failure of capitalism itself rather than just corporations per se.

To me the problem is related to the existence of the concept of LTD, being limited liablity. People in a corporation, be they employees or shareholders have limited liablity. BUT they don't have limited upside do they! If the company goes gangbusters then the gains go straight into the pockets of those involved with the corporation. But if the company is managed poorly and goes bust then the losses of those involved are limited, and the spillover is borne by the community.

So yes, I think corporations are explotational in this sense.
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Re: UK Riots

Post by youthful_implants » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:23 pm

mrj wrote:Well to be honest I think corporations are exploitational, insofar as they all privatise profits whilst socialising losses, especially if you broaden the definition of losses to impact on the environment, people injured at work etc. I think the financial industry and mining industries are great examples of this.

But this is arguably a failure of capitalism itself rather than just corporations per se.

To me the problem is related to the existence of the concept of LTD, being limited liablity. People in a corporation, be they employees or shareholders have limited liablity. BUT they don't have limited upside do they! If the company goes gangbusters then the gains go straight into the pockets of those involved with the corporation. But if the company is managed poorly and goes bust then the losses of those involved are limited, and the spillover is borne by the community.

So yes, I think corporations are explotational in this sense.
yeah I agree with all of that. failure of capitalism definitely and a failure of government.
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Re: UK Riots

Post by quiet roar » Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:13 pm

Hardy wrote:How exactly have corporations affected you directly? How have you been exploited? I'm not having a go, just curious.
"The corporations killed my baby!"


It's hard to blame corporations, directly because they are just groups that will try and maximise profits, so I guess, it's more of a case of the laws (govt) being favourable to corps, over public goo. Mrj's examples are one area, but specific examples that directly influence my life include: vcat rubber-stamping almost any fucking property development proposed for brunswick (and other areas), no matter how ridiculously inappropriate; mining companies spending a fortune to convince the public that a tax on mining super-profits would cause our economy to collapse, while they extract anything they can sell from our land; public transport ignored for more roads; and personally, I have the pleasure of seeing culturally significant products like books, music and film turned into little more than loss-leaders for department stores.

Then there is the sexualisation of children, the dumbing down of the masses, and propagating the prevailing materialistic, consumeristic attitude of society where almost anything is ok, as long as it makes money.
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Re: UK Riots

Post by quiet roar » Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:27 pm

mrj wrote:
elysium wrote:vigilante mobs taking to streets last night to protect their businesses, communities and families in London.
not suprised, it was just a matter of time before the non-rioters got fed up and decided to take back their own streets.
For sure! I know if it were my business/community, I'd be like the korean shopkeepers during the LA riots, on the roof with a rifle, shooting any fucker that wanted to loot my store. Though looters don't seem to be that keen on stealing books so I would probably only have to deal with the mindless destruction.
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Re: UK Riots

Post by DBoy » Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:57 pm

quiet roar wrote:
mrj wrote:
elysium wrote:vigilante mobs taking to streets last night to protect their businesses, communities and families in London.
not suprised, it was just a matter of time before the non-rioters got fed up and decided to take back their own streets.
For sure! I know if it were my business/community, I'd be like the korean shopkeepers during the LA riots, on the roof with a rifle, shooting any fucker that wanted to loot my store. Though looters don't seem to be that keen on stealing books so I would probably only have to deal with the mindless destruction.
Don't underestimate the irony of a hipster in a riot. Bookstore prime target tbh.

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Re: UK Riots

Post by youthful_implants » Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:24 pm

quiet roar wrote:
Hardy wrote:How exactly have corporations affected you directly? How have you been exploited? I'm not having a go, just curious.
"The corporations killed my baby!"


It's hard to blame corporations, directly because they are just groups that will try and maximise profits, so I guess, it's more of a case of the laws (govt) being favourable to corps, over public goo. Mrj's examples are one area, but specific examples that directly influence my life include: vcat rubber-stamping almost any fucking property development proposed for brunswick (and other areas), no matter how ridiculously inappropriate; mining companies spending a fortune to convince the public that a tax on mining super-profits would cause our economy to collapse, while they extract anything they can sell from our land; public transport ignored for more roads; and personally, I have the pleasure of seeing culturally significant products like books, music and film turned into little more than loss-leaders for department stores.

Then there is the sexualisation of children, the dumbing down of the masses, and propagating the prevailing materialistic, consumeristic attitude of society where almost anything is ok, as long as it makes money.
nice one. :clap:
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Re: UK Riots

Post by huge » Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:43 pm

yer i totes be stealing all the good cookbooks huhu :teef:
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Re: UK Riots

Post by Hardy » Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:23 pm

quiet roar wrote:
It's hard to blame corporations, directly because they are just groups that will try and maximise profits, so I guess, it's more of a case of the laws (govt) being favourable to corps, over public goo. Mrj's examples are one area, but specific examples that directly influence my life include: vcat rubber-stamping almost any fucking property development proposed for brunswick (and other areas), no matter how ridiculously inappropriate; mining companies spending a fortune to convince the public that a tax on mining super-profits would cause our economy to collapse, while they extract anything they can sell from our land; public transport ignored for more roads; and personally, I have the pleasure of seeing culturally significant products like books, music and film turned into little more than loss-leaders for department stores.

Then there is the sexualisation of children, the dumbing down of the masses, and propagating the prevailing materialistic, consumeristic attitude of society where almost anything is ok, as long as it makes money.
Most of those are goverment gripes, not corporations.

Without corporations, you wouldn't have a brunswick to be redeveloped.
With corporations, you wouldn't have roads or public transport at all.
Without corporations, you wouldn't have books
Without mining companies, you wouldn't have the raw materials to make any of the things described previously.

I'm not saying all corporations are saintly, but think about it.

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Re: UK Riots

Post by quiet roar » Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:38 pm

^^ I did say that the problem is one of the government allowing the corporations free reign to do all those things. However, the fact that corps will engage in all those issues when allowed, tells you what kind of philosophy they follow.

I never said that they shouldn't exist, simply that if left to their own controls, they wouldn't be thinking of the greater good but rather everything would be based on profits and shareholder returns.

However you do give them too much credit: Brunswick would still be here without the corps, and it was government departments that used to build the infrastructure such as roads, pt, etc.
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Re: UK Riots

Post by Hardy » Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:45 pm

quiet roar wrote:^^ I did say that the problem is one of the government allowing the corporations free reign to do all those things. However, the fact that corps will engage in all those issues when allowed, tells you what kind of philosophy they follow.

I never said that they shouldn't exist, simply that if left to their own controls, they wouldn't be thinking of the greater good but rather everything would be based on profits and shareholder returns.

However you do give them too much credit: Brunswick would still be here without the corps, and it was government departments that used to build the infrastructure such as roads, pt, etc.
Yeah I get you, and there's much Devil's advocacy in my ramblings. I'm gonna chalk thus one up as damned if you do, damned if you don't. Maybe. I'm pretty tired today.

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Re: UK Riots

Post by quiet roar » Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:35 pm

All good, Hardy. I haven't been this interested in melb beats for a long time.
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Re: UK Riots

Post by fooishbar » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:54 pm

huge wrote:yer i totes be stealing all the good cookbooks huhu :teef:
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Re: UK Riots

Post by youthful_implants » Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:23 am

Amazingly articulate article from Russell Brand in the Guardian on the riots, the context in which they happened and the disaffection of the people who caused them.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/1 ... vidcameron
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Re: UK Riots

Post by spiral » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:09 pm

another good write up from the telegraph of all places

The moral decay of our society is as bad at the top as the bottom
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peter ... he-bottom/

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Re: UK Riots

Post by spiral » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:09 pm

Meanwhile in Philadelphia they react to violent teens with 9pm curfews
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/08/13 ... index.html

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Re: UK Riots

Post by CoB » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:50 pm

oh man
i want a butter cookbook!!!
o/ . . . \o . . . -o . o- . \o/ \o/

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Re: UK Riots

Post by ghetto kitty » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:10 pm

quiet roar wrote:All good, Hardy. I haven't been this interested in melb beats for a long time.
this.

i leave and yall start having great debates hahaha

I cant help my inherent distrust of corporations either. I understand we need to buy into them to survive in society, but I do understand the disillusionment with fatcats when so many people are stuggling to eat.

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