CDJ'S

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enak
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CDJ'S

Post by enak »

Alrighty, it's time to bite the bullet and go digital - will now dip my toes in the mp3 pool and buy cdj's.

Looking at the Denon DNS-3500. They're a few years old now, and was hoping for some feedback. They seem to be quite feature rich for the price, and given their age I was hoping some may have some experience with them and give some pros and cons - if shit, maybe some alternatives. Tbh, Pioneer seem bloody expensive for what you get, Numark and Stanton are, well, Numark and Stanton. Don't know what I can really spend just yet, but with three kids etc. let's assume I'm a complete tightass who wants maximum bang for their buck.

I'm all ears.... :idea:
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by andy_hoffman »

Not very useful advice really but I've used denons once and they were nice but being used to the cdj1000s from all my gigs I'm very biased and they've never let me down. Great features. All you need IMO. simple to use too. If you're gonna play gigs it's always nice playing on something you're used to as well.
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by deviant »

Traktor/Serato... much cheaper than 2 x CDJs
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by Direkt »

deviant wrote:Traktor/Serato... much cheaper than 2 x CDJs
:scr1pt:

No use stepping up to the digital plate with what could be considered old technology.

If you're wanting to play MP3's - Serato/Traktor is the way to go IMO.

Wether you control the program via your decks, or via a MIDI controller - you'll find a fair bit of flexibility.
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by a1studmuffin »

The only problem then is having to take your own laptop... you could get insurance though... but it's all $$$.
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by Direkt »

^ for sure... it is a negative - but on the plus side, you don't have to lug around your expensive and heavy record boxes/bags anymore.
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by deviant »

I play CDJs out and traktor at home.....

no need to take lappy and un-plug/re-plug cables etc etc.
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by enak »

Fuck. My head hurts.

Look, Serato has it's pluses, but in my shoes it's not cheaper coz I'll be chucking another two grand on top for a Macbook - my four year old 1.3 Dell tells me it's scared of serato.

It's just for home use anyways - used to be quite OK on the wheelz, then kids and school ate my time. Time to upgrade and get spinning again. The CDJ route has more +++ for me at the moment.

The only argument for Pioneer gear around the traps seems to be that it's 'industry standard'. WTF? 1000Mk3 nearly two grand? Someone in Japan laughs their ass off every time someone buys one.

The 400's feel like shit, but has midi options - a good thing, but my kid has a toy gun made of better plastic.

And the 100's and 200's - well, meh.

Think I've just spent the last ten minutes selling myself Denons... :smt102 :tard:
"I've never been a fan of virtuoso/performance displays of skill, to be honest; wanky guitar-solos get on my tits. I want music that moves me, not that impresses me."
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by Direkt »

Seems like you already had you mind made up tbh.
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by enak »

You may be right - was prolly looking for good reasons not to go down that path...
"I've never been a fan of virtuoso/performance displays of skill, to be honest; wanky guitar-solos get on my tits. I want music that moves me, not that impresses me."
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by *catalyst »

You'll never play on a set of Denon players in a club in Australia. You *will* play on CDJ100's,200's,800's and 1000's. Denon have a different pitch shift algorithm so its not quite like playing on a Pioneer. The Denon's (3500/3700/5500) are 'liked' by the scratch style community as they offer the rotating platter.

I've played on both, but much more on the Pioneers. I didn't much rate the 3500. I seem to recall a pawn shop on corner sydney rd / blyth st having a couple of 5500's...

I've got a CDJ-800MK2, unfortunately I've gotta go overseas soon and won't have the cash to drop on a second one until I get back and even then they barely come up 2nd hand!

The Denons are well put together from what I understand but don't have those baseline features you'll find in club after club.
I'd looooove a set of 1000MK3 even if just for the full-track waveform, this makes things super.

Hope that helps; but in the end either will work a treat and the quality of the mixing will be totally dependent on....

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Re: CDJ'S

Post by youthful_implants »

If you aint got technics at home, no point in buying serato at all.

Traktor with a a good midi controller FTW IMO.

I am so sick of playing off CDs I have to admit (keep losing them/they break so easily/stop working mid-tune), I cant wait to go fully with Traktor only.
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by enak »

OK, so what's the heads up on a good midi controller? I've used Traktor and VDJ on the desktop via a keyboard I have (mappable midi obv.), but too fiddly, not intuitive and just basically gave me the shits.

(And Traktor made feel a bit guilty, like I was cheating or something) :?
"I've never been a fan of virtuoso/performance displays of skill, to be honest; wanky guitar-solos get on my tits. I want music that moves me, not that impresses me."
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by Fents »

get the denons i reckon they are great. sure you wont find any in a club but you can always learn to use pioneers pretty quick. denons have the pitch + and - which i find great for mixing. my denon has lasted yonks and i've given it a belting over the years. spinning platter and custom platter graphic FTW.
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by Direkt »

youthful_implants wrote:If you aint got technics at home, no point in buying serato at all.
Huh?
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by Direkt »

enak wrote:OK, so what's the heads up on a good midi controller? I've used Traktor and VDJ on the desktop via a keyboard I have (mappable midi obv.), but too fiddly, not intuitive and just basically gave me the shits.

(And Traktor made feel a bit guilty, like I was cheating or something) :?
NS7. By far... not cheap though.
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by enak »

NS7. By far... not cheap though.[/quote]

Yeah, damn sexy looking piece of kit. Nice to use?

Heard they were around the $2200 mark - can buy a lot of laptop with that kind of coin though.

Speaking of which, what are the min. specs on a lappy for Serato use? I mean real world experience? Generally on the box they play it a bit safe with their rec. minimum, I find you can generally go a fair bit lower - is true with Serato?
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by Direkt »

enak wrote:Yeah, damn sexy looking piece of kit. Nice to use?
Amazing to use.

Can't really help you on your spec's question... I'd usually go with what the manufacturer are recommending.
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by deviant »

if it's for home use.... who says you need a lappy?
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by Direkt »

True. Desktop is a much cheaper option. Although lappies are still handy for virtual DJ'ing due to their size - you can park them on a stand right next to your setup.

I use a tower at home.
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by youthful_implants »

fast laptop essential.

I would say dont buy the Numark controller they're usually shit quality - WILL break and quickly. Plus its a stupidly heavy piece of kit with a built-in laptop (??) Review here: http://www.production-room.com/news/numark-ns7-review/

M-Audio, which is a semi-reliable pro-audio brand do this one called Torq Exponent which is pretty good and comes with the software included (although I dont think thats much cop) its $899 from storedj.com.au

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Review from Digitek: http://digitek.net.au/2008/12/m-audio-t ... nt-review/

I was DJ'ing for a friends party the other day and rather than bring my whole time-coded vinyl setup I thought I would try out his M-Audio Torq Xponent, and see how it runs with Virtual DJ.

The M-Audio Torq Exponent is one of the more advanced (and expensive) Midi controllers available. It can be used to control DJ software such as M-Audio's own Torq, Virtual DJ, and Traktor. Much like an all-in-one CDJ/Mixer kit the controller features all the controls typical of a pair of CD decks and a two channel mixer. The mixer includes:

* a horizontal crossfader control with transform buttons
* two volume faders
* two 3-band EQ control knobs with kill buttons
* two gain-control knobs with mute buttons
* two LED volume meters
* four RCA outputs for independent control of the house system and booth monitors
* a ¼” TRS headphone output with cue and volume controls
* a four channel sound card

The 'players' include:

* two touch-sensitive jog wheels
* two 100mm pitch adjust controls
* a built-in touchpad with assignable X/Y control surface for mouse or effect control
* eight assignable knobs for effect control
* 64 assignable back lit buttons, including Play, Cue, Seek, Loop, Key and Sync controls

I used the Xponent with both the Torq software and my own copy of Virtual DJ 5.2 so I will consider both for a comparison.

The Good

Xponent

A number of midi controllers have similar set ups to the Xponent but where it sets itself apart is with the large touch-sensitive jog wheels. Not many controllers offer touch sensitive jogs which means that performing moves such as scratching or 'throw ins' is more or less impossible. They are about the same size as the wheel on a Pioneer CDJ 100, and unlike just about every other product in this market they actually stick out from the surface about half an inch or more which allows you to move it with your whole hand rather than just a finger tip. The location of the jog wheels is also advantageous, being in the upper corners of the device mean that they are away from the volume and cross faders which on other controllers can often be accidentally moved when touching a wheel. They also have a good, weighted feel and are not so easily spun as say the Vestax VCI series. This is closer to the way the better CDJ jogs are and are much easier to play on.

The layout of the device is fairly smart overall with everything placed as they would be on a typical CDJ setup, with a mixer in the middle. Cue, loop and faders are all exactly where you would expect them to be. Think of it as a really compact set of CD decks in a road case, with the whole thing about the size of one vinyl turntable on it's side. I think they have got the size just right too. If it was smaller like the Vestax VCI-100 then the ability to play would suffer and if it was any larger then it would not be as portable.

It is also a fairly solid device. It has a good weight and feels like it has a better build quality than a lot of other controllers. The buttons are rubber and do not click but this gives you confidence to hit them with a bit of aggression. They are also all back lit to let you know if they are active or not.
xponent_back.jpg

Back Panel

In order to operate like a traditional mixer, giving you a master out as well as pre-listen in your headphones, a midi controller needs to be paired with a 4 channel sound card. This provides a channel for each turntable, and a channel for each turntable in the headphones. The Xponent is one of only a handful of devices that actually has this sound card built in, and does not require any additional spend on a 3rd party solution. I am happy to report that my experience with the Xponent's sound card was positive. Unlike cheaper devices, such as the Behringer BCD range, the internal M-Audio card is a true low latency solution producing great sound on all channels simultaneously, without any delay from the device to the speaker. The Xponent also has an additional Master Out for the Booth, which is essentially an output for a third speaker used by the DJ in the DJ Booth so that you can hear yourself.

I use Virtual DJ (Virtual Vinyl) as my usual DJ solution but I was keen to try out the Xponent with the latest version of the software. Virtual DJ does not fully support the Xponent by default. The backlight on the buttons will not work and you will have to map the controls yourself. There is however a custom mapper available on the VDJ website that does bring full functionality to the device. All I had to do was download and install the mapper, install the Xponent drivers, and then open up VDJ and activate the Xponent controller. All in all it was a relatively simple process.

I was running Virtual DJ and the Xponent on my EEE PC 901 and I am happy to report that it ran quite well. All buttons were mapped correctly and functioned without too many problems. The EEE PC also did a fine job of handling the software and sound reproduction, albeit with a slight bit of distortion in the sound coming from the headphones. I am not sure if this was due to the Xponent, the EEE or the software but it was not a major issue as the master out sounded fine. I have had this issue with Virtual DJ and midi controllers before and I think it has something to do with using Midi controllers and the Two Soundcard option in the sound card setup. Sadly I did not have more time to test but either way, it was no biggie.

The Bad

Virtual DJ

I have to say that I am not a fan of the Torq software. The Xponent controller comes with its own DJ software called Torq which like Virtual DJ and Traktor allows you to mix MP3's. I found the interface to be poorly laid out and overly detailed, there are so many buttons and so much information crammed onto the screen that it can be difficult to quickly find what you are looking for. I also did not think much of the top and bottom wave pattern and the way it moves across the screen. Having them overlaid the way Virtual DJ does works much better in my opinion, and makes it far easier to see where the anchor beats of two songs are. The Wave pattern for the whole song is also cramped into a very small area which for me defeats the entire purpose of having it. It is so small that you can't see where the individual break downs and phases of the song are. Despite having so much information on screen I think Torq actually gives you less visual aid for mixing.

The Jog Wheels do have a really good feel with Torq however, much better than they feel in the Virtual DJ default setup. The ratio between how far a song moves forwards or backwards and how far you have turned the wheel seems perfect. Back spins feel and sound great with Torq. The same can't be said for Virtual DJ but this is due to the default setup I was using and I believe it can be changed.

I also found the gain control to be rather manic with Virtual DJ. A slight turn of the knob seemed to dramatically adjust the volume up or down which gave some nasty results to the master output. Again this could be an issue with the default VDJ setup which may be easily fixed.

Summary

All things considered the M-Audio Torq Xponent is a great Midi Controller. In Australia it is priced lower than the Vestax VCI-100 at about $1000, and in my opinion the built in sound card and more intuitive layout make it a superior device. The Torq software that comes with it is not my favourite, but being a Midi device you can use it with any software that allows external controllers such as Virtual DJ or Ableton. This is a big advantage over say the Vestax VCI-300 which is locked to the Serato Itch software that comes with it.

Using the Xponent is very similar to DJ'ing with CD decks and if you are in the market for a software/controller solution, then this device would be a very good choice.
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by Direkt »

^ seriously dude, maybe try a product before you bag it - even the review you mentioned says good things.

I've worked for both Numark and M-Audio, and while both brands usually market themelves at entry level consumers to prosumers - they both have their flagship models which are both awesome and groundbreaking.

The NS7 is Numark's. Along with their new SMX mixer - which we couldn't get stock of. :sad:

PS: we have not had one NS7 back for repair yet. These things have a full-metal jacket (chasis), are heavy as fuck (due to their build) and have been designed from the ground up for their use in partnership with the co-developed Serato Itch software.

There's a reason they're not cheap.
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by youthful_implants »

Direkt wrote:^ seriously dude, maybe try a product before you bag it.

I've worked for both Numark and M-Audio, and while both brands usually market themelves at entry level consumers to prosumers - they both have their flagship models which are both awesome and groundbreaking.

The NS7 is Numark's. Along with their new SMX mixer - which we couldn't get stock of. :sad:

PS: we have not had one NS7 back for repair yet. These things have a full-metal jacket (chasis), are heavy as fuck (due to their build) and have been designed from the ground up for their use in partnership with the co-developed Serato Itch software.

There's a reason they're not cheap.
Sorry man, I'm only going on what I've read about it and my experience of Numark products in the past which has been less than satisfactory.

I'd agree that trying any of these products is essential before buying them fo sho.
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by *catalyst »

I would say the same with Numark stuff, but apparently, this NS7 is the business. However, its aimed more at scratch/hip-hop DJ's. If you are into those types of music its the g-o. You get no effects or anything though, which may be limiting depending on what you play. Vestax have the VCI-100/300, the 300 is an 'itch' controller like the NS7 and only works with the Serato Itch software; which at this point, has no effects.

I believe Vestax are releasing an 'effects unit' like device for their VCI-300 which will no doubt coincide with an updated version of Serato Itch to take advantage of it. If this 'effects unit' will work with the NS7 it will be a big plus.

Personally, I'd be more inclined to go for a standard midi controller (VCI-100) a good audio interface and Traktor. This is what I would like to do ultimately, but it will take time :)
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by youthful_implants »

The VCI-100 does look the business, but the jog wheels on the Torq more resemble in feel and weight the ones of the Pioneer CDJs and thats a big plus point for me.
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by Direkt »

youthful_implants wrote:Sorry man, I'm only going on what I've read about it and my experience of Numark products in the past which has been less than satisfactory.

I'd agree that trying any of these products is essential before buying them fo sho.
Look, I'm sorry to... didn't mean to jump down your throat mate....

I just think that Numark gets a bit of a bad rap generally speaking.

I prefer their decks (TT500's or TTX) over Technics. The only negative regarding their decks is that they're not "industry standard". But industry standard doesn't always mean the best - it means tried and tested... reliable, old technology. Not necessarily the best. But familiarity does account for a lot, granted.

Sure, there a whole bunch of cheap Numark out there... and ultimately you get what you pay for with most brands... cheap prices = cheap products. But don't forget the same company that produces Numark - makes the MPC's, the ADAT's, the NS7, MPK's etc.
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by youthful_implants »

Direkt wrote:
youthful_implants wrote:Sorry man, I'm only going on what I've read about it and my experience of Numark products in the past which has been less than satisfactory.

I'd agree that trying any of these products is essential before buying them fo sho.
Look, I'm sorry to... didn't mean to jump down your throat mate....

I just think that Numark gets a bit of a bad rap generally speaking.

I prefer their decks (TT500's or TTX) over Technics. The only negative regarding their decks is that they're not "industry standard". But industry standard doesn't always mean the best - it means tried and tested... reliable, old technology. Not necessarily the best. But familiarity does account for a lot, granted.

Sure, there a whole bunch of cheap Numark out there... and ultimately you get what you pay for with most brands... cheap prices = cheap products. But don't forget the same company that produces Numark - makes the MPC's, the ADAT's, the NS7, MPK's etc.
lol its ok, I was being overly dismissive.

I'm gonna go and check these badboys out on the weekend for real and then at least I'll have a proper opinion on the subject.
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by enak »

Well, cheers guys.

A shitload of information, and you've probably created more questions than answers - you all should have said, 'Fuck yeah, mate. Denon are the shiz, wish I was you!' or summat :wink:

I need to expand my options, apparently. Traktor / midi controller makes mucho sense - only the computer side of things is holding me back. May need to neg. with the Minister of Finance.

Appreciated.
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by Direkt »

:lol: @ 'Minister of Finance' - good luck there enak... try and sell it (the computer) in as not only being for your music... but the good minister can download recipes, fashion news, tips for cleaning the house etc... :wink:
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by llupa »

notice nobody here mentioned a laptop setup with abelton and a controller - anybody use that kinda setup?

I have 2 x CDJ800's + 2 X 1210's, but am thinking about going the laptop route. As I also produce my own stuff was thinking of an Ableton + controller setup to DJ with.

The only issue I see with Ableton is having to warp all the bloody tunes

either that or get Serato
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by marcus »

llupa wrote:notice nobody here mentioned a laptop setup with abelton and a controller - anybody use that kinda setup?

I have 2 x CDJ800's + 2 X 1210's, but am thinking about going the laptop route. As I also produce my own stuff was thinking of an Ableton + controller setup to DJ with.

The only issue I see with Ableton is having to warp all the bloody tunes

either that or get Serato
I'm looking at going the ableton route for playing dance type stuff. The new akai ableton controller looks pretty cool so going to be checking that out soon. Otherwise I'd go one of those M-Audio UC33 and an akai trigger finger device.
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by Direkt »

Pretty sure UC33 is Evolution, not M-Audio. Same parent company, cheaper product.
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by a1studmuffin »

http://www.cortex-pro.com/dmix_600.php

Image

I'm quite interested in this guy, but haven't seen him on the market. Obviously just for home use + house parties, but the iPod dock + USB port means you'd never have to worry about burning CDs again, and wouldn't always need to hook up a laptop with software so you could just leave it set up in the corner of the room like you can with CDJs... plus the layout is dead simple for anyone who's used CDJs/vinyl + a 2 channel mixer before. And it doesn't look like it was made by Fisher Price. :)

Possibly the only downside I can see is the power button being right up on the front in the middle - you could easily lean into that... if it were on a table though it'd be a lot harder to press accidentally though.
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by enak »

Looks like a toy tbh.
"I've never been a fan of virtuoso/performance displays of skill, to be honest; wanky guitar-solos get on my tits. I want music that moves me, not that impresses me."
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by a1studmuffin »

Definitely not for club use (as I said). I'm just struggling to justify my DJM800 + 2 CDJ1000MK3s when I only use them occasionally...
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by enak »

a1studmuffin wrote:Definitely not for club use (as I said). I'm just struggling to justify my DJM800 + 2 CDJ1000MK3s when I only use them occasionally...
I do believe you have latent desires to sell me those at obscenely deflated prices. Cheers in advance!
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by youthful_implants »

a1studmuffin wrote:Definitely not for club use (as I said). I'm just struggling to justify my DJM800 + 2 CDJ1000MK3s when I only use them occasionally...
Yeah thats how I felt, I bought two 800s and an Allen and Heath mixer year before last and only used them a few times.

Sold them, at a loss when I moved here. Such a waste of money!
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a1studmuffin
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by a1studmuffin »

Yeah... it is handy for practicing though (especially considering I don't DJ every weekend, so definitely feel the need to practice beforehand)... but for the rest of the time, geez, they just sit there. Maybe I should rent them out or something.
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by youthful_implants »

Have you got an APC 40 yet? Are there any in Oz yet?

I want one of those, and then I'll have to learn Ableton properly,
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Direkt
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by Direkt »

APC40 is due 3rd week of July.

3-weeks off. I'd get your orders in though - or at least make sure your preferred retailer will have available stock, as it's already quite heavily backordred.
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by bonsai »

CDJ1000 or GTFO ->
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by Direkt »

Actually, APC40's have arrived... but I think you'd be hard pressed to find available stock.
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Re: CDJ'S

Post by llupa »

^^ who the hell has them then - damn them~!
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