Drinkable water going down the toilet

[FoundationStepper]

there is a powder we get on mail order - eco something.

ill try to remember to check it at home

[aspekt]

I'm interested in people's knowledge about this too. I don't know anything at all about whitegoods but I do know I've noticed that most energy/water saving ratings are super low. Dishwasher, washing machines, dryers (for energy) and fridges are usually really low. I saw a friends fridge the other day thathad a half a star rating!! Bloody atrocious!

as far as energy efficiency goes:
afaik, most dishwashers and washing machines have electric elements inside them which they use to heat water instead of using/boosting the hot water coming from your gas fueled hot water system (which is a lot more efficient).

I'm not familiar with the innerworkings of dishwashers but I would not be at all surprised if the water isn't reused at all. dishwashers may become more efficient over the next few years as people really start to care about that sort of thing.

as far as washing machines go, i gather front-loaders are a lot more efficient than top-loaders, and do less damage to your clothes.

I cannot stand people who run a dishwasher with about 5 plates in it.

[mixtress]

Word. We've had a dishwasher for about 10 years and used it maybe 14 times. I hand wash every night. It's kinda weird standing next to it while I'm slaving over the sink but I'd prefer that to wasting water in an unenvironmental washer.

[FoundationStepper]

front loaders use a heating element usually so yeah tthe energy rating for warm washes is usually shit

for cold is usually pretty good though

[Friday]

does anyone know a good non toxic stain remover?

i've managed to find new soaps, kitchen detergent, laundry detergent, hand wash, shampoo, conditioner, spray n wipe style cleaner etc etc...

but i can't anything similar to preen for stains that isn't harsh chemicals. joe being an art teacher comes home with paint and ink and all sorts of stains on his clothes every day

any ideas?

[mrj]

As swell as nature is, sometimes you can't beat good old toxic chemicals to get a job done.

[Fents]

I just forked out a Big Gorllia on a new washing machine after ours died. Fisher and Paykall Aquasmart...Its a Front loader that you load from the top. Its wikkid, even tells u if the loads unbalanced after afterwards tells you to have a nice day.

http://www.fastthinking.com.au/fp_5.html

We use or dishwasher most nights but only if its full. Its more efficent than washing up and letting all the dirty water drain.

[FoundationStepper]

nature does make some pretty toxic chemicals though

[Smile on Impact]

Read a fantastic article in New Scientist a while ago ...

Check this out:

did they tell you how much water I kilo of beef uses ???

I've read up to 750,000L.

that is fukin serious.

[mixtress]

nature does make some pretty toxic chemicals though

how about psilocybin

[Polecat]

there is a powder we get on mail order - eco something.

Was it Eco-Store? I read about them just recently, a NZ company that specialises in environmentally friendly cleaning stuff and it is available in OZ.

http://www.outofeden.com.au/shopdisplay ... y+Cleaning

[FoundationStepper]

nope

they do cheap vitamins as well, good for that sort of thing - free postage i recall

will have to check at home

[deviant]

nature does make some pretty toxic chemicals though

how about psilocybin

not overly toxic,

Jelly fish venom is pretty toxic though

[mrj]

Can't you see I'm toxic

[mixtress]

As promised FoundationStepper:

This is the shower/basin tub:



And two tubs for the laundry water. Finding a big hose to snake it's way from the washing machine to the tubs was a pain in the ass, and sometimes there isn't enough water pressure so the machine doesn't empty properly, but I think it's so worth the effort

[*catalyst]

So i know a little about pumping water and stuff, but i'm sure someone will correct me.

see how your hose goes down, then up? if you can get it not going back UP i.e run it straight from the window across, slightly downward would be even better, it should drain better.

When looking for pumps the LPH rating is always important you have to look at the 'head' (heheh) as this is how HIGH it will be able to pump the water UP against gravity.

[mixtress]

Thanks *catalyst. We've tried, trust me! Unless you're standing there holding the hose in place, it just falls with the weight of the water. The washing machine and the tub are exactly the same height so I think the best thing to do would be cut the hose a bit and attach brackets to the wall to make it sit in place.

We haven't perfected it yet, MacGyver I ain't . Any and all suggestions to make it work better are much appreciated

[betson]

Maybe you could pull it tight and stick the hose into the tub more, coil it round the bottom and stick a brick or something on it to keep it tight.

[mixtress]

Thanks Betson. The hose has to be sitting near the top of the tub cause once the water level reaches the hose, there's backflow into the machine.

[spiral]

also watch out for salt , a lot of detergents have heaps of salt in them..

[ArrBee]

Word. We've had a dishwasher for about 10 years and used it maybe 14 times. I hand wash every night. It's kinda weird standing next to it while I'm slaving over the sink but I'd prefer that to wasting water in an unenvironmental washer.

It's not uncommon for a dishwasher to actually use less water than doing it by hand.

You should check the volume of water you use in the sink for dishes vs the dishwasher's normal and eco cycles.

Personally, I don't like the feel of dishes out of a dishwasher, not that we actually have one.

[spiral]

also if you like fish, check aquaponics

once you achieve equilibrium the system runs itself

[*catalyst]

Mixtress, you could punch a hole near the top of the tub, and pull the hose tight, zip tie it in place (i fucking love zip-ties btw) then chop the excess hose. Should be sweet...

and you'd get to use zip-ties...

[mixtress]

But would it give us access to the secondary tub next to the big fuck-off blue steel jobbie?? We need access to both incase there's two washing loads and no time to empty the tubs inbetween.

I guess we could punch two holes in the blue one and just push and pull it through as need to fill the second tub. Mighty fine idea *catalyst, thanks. I'll take it to management (my sweet old mother) and see how it flies with her. Of course, it would mean I get to use some power tools.
Alright

[*catalyst]

zip-ties, please!

[FoundationStepper]

(my new system uses a zip tie)

[mixtress]

Peer pressure!!

[Fents]

also if you like fish, check aquaponics

once you achieve equilibrium the system runs itself

Oh my fucking days............Thats sensational. I can sit there, drinking, casting lures in my own backyard catching bream.

[advocatus_diaboli]

Word. We've had a dishwasher for about 10 years and used it maybe 14 times. I hand wash every night. It's kinda weird standing next to it while I'm slaving over the sink but I'd prefer that to wasting water in an unenvironmental washer.

The early dishwashing machines did indeed use lots of water - 70 litres or more. But, according to recent test reports in the consumer magazine, Choice, modern dishwashers use between 16 and 24 litres on a "Normal" Cycle - and can use even less on the Economy Cycle. So if you accumulate dishes from each meal until you have a full load, your dishwasher will use less water than if you had hand-washed after each meal - and for around 20 cents per day. Of course, don't first pre-rinse the plates clean with water - just scrape off the crud before you put them in the dishwasher.

Rainer Stamminger, Professor of Home Economics at the University of Bonn in Germany, recently carried out the definitive test that proved the superiority of the mechanical dishwasher over the human dishwasher. He set up the typical daily washing load of a family of four - some 140 pots, pans, plates, glasses and cutlery, lovingly splattered with dried residues of egg, spinach, oats, etc. Then, 75 volunteers from 9 countries washed them by hand - with surprising results.

First, the water used ranged from 15 to 345 litres - more than the modern European dishwasher on the economy cycle (12-20 litres).

Second, the machines used less than half the electricity of the hand-washers (about 1 kWh as compared to 2.4 kWh)).

Finally, only 15% of the hand-washers could achieve the squeaky-cleanliness of the machine dishwasher.

There were national differences. The British were the quickest, while the Turks were the slowest (at 108 minutes). The Spanish (followed closely by the Turks) were the cleanest. Surprisingly, the Germans (with their reputation of obsessiveness) managed only mediocre cleanliness.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s1376500.htm

[mixtress]

Interesting...

[spiral]

also if you like fish, check aquaponics

once you achieve equilibrium the system runs itself

Oh my fucking days............Thats sensational. I can sit there, drinking, casting lures in my own backyard catching bream.

and tossing yabbies on the barbie

[Fents]

also if you like fish, check aquaponics

once you achieve equilibrium the system runs itself

Oh my fucking days............Thats sensational. I can sit there, drinking, casting lures in my own backyard catching bream.

and tossing yabbies on the barbie

I already had yabbies in my fish tank

[betson]

fents, are they blue? I used the bluestone gravel and my yabbies turned a real bright blue! They look real cool. There was a photo around here somewhere.


EDIT they were in this thread, http://melbournebeats.com/forum/viewtop ... ht=yabbies
I've since let that webspace go so I'll re-up them somewhere else

[stovequeen]

Word. We've had a dishwasher for about 10 years and used it maybe 14 times. I hand wash every night. It's kinda weird standing next to it while I'm slaving over the sink but I'd prefer that to wasting water in an unenvironmental washer.

The early dishwashing machines did indeed use lots of water - 70 litres or more. But, according to recent test reports in the consumer magazine, Choice, modern dishwashers use between 16 and 24 litres on a "Normal" Cycle - and can use even less on the Economy Cycle. So if you accumulate dishes from each meal until you have a full load, your dishwasher will use less water than if you had hand-washed after each meal - and for around 20 cents per day. Of course, don't first pre-rinse the plates clean with water - just scrape off the crud before you put them in the dishwasher.

Rainer Stamminger, Professor of Home Economics at the University of Bonn in Germany, recently carried out the definitive test that proved the superiority of the mechanical dishwasher over the human dishwasher. He set up the typical daily washing load of a family of four - some 140 pots, pans, plates, glasses and cutlery, lovingly splattered with dried residues of egg, spinach, oats, etc. Then, 75 volunteers from 9 countries washed them by hand - with surprising results.

First, the water used ranged from 15 to 345 litres - more than the modern European dishwasher on the economy cycle (12-20 litres).

Second, the machines used less than half the electricity of the hand-washers (about 1 kWh as compared to 2.4 kWh)).

Finally, only 15% of the hand-washers could achieve the squeaky-cleanliness of the machine dishwasher.

There were national differences. The British were the quickest, while the Turks were the slowest (at 108 minutes). The Spanish (followed closely by the Turks) were the cleanest. Surprisingly, the Germans (with their reputation of obsessiveness) managed only mediocre cleanliness.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s1376500.htm

- ok, there maybe some circumstances where dish washers may actually use less water than handwashing... but they consumer another resource.. electricty!

i only fill the sink up with a tiny amount of water (appx 2lts). And only do the dishes every one/two days.

I imagine this would be pretty tough with a large family though!

[advocatus_diaboli]

i only fill the sink up with a tiny amount of water (appx 2lts)

Grose

[stovequeen]

i only fill the sink up with a tiny amount of water (appx 2lts)

Grose

why? does more water make the dishes any cleaner?

[mixtress]

I wash the dishes fairly dry (just add a bit of water to the sponge) and then rinse. I reckon I'd use about 2 litres per wash as well.

I HATE having dried suds in the glass. Recently poured my last glass of vino, only to have it froth up cause I hadn't rinsed the glass properly last time I washed it

[huge]

we have one of those fisher and paykel double drwaer jobbies. it uses 16liters on the normal mode which goes for about 1 1/2 hours.

we use the fast mode, which goes for 30mins which uses fuck all water and only every 2 or 3 days!

fuck trying to hand wash the dishes of 4 people everyday!

[FoundationStepper]

ok here goes

this new system is a tad crude but already we are saving more water. i was using buckets before but that was a pain in the butt. this pump is proving very cool.


Pump - $100 but it is sold as a temporary grey water diverter which equals $30 off your next water bill if you do the paperwork. nice


put it in the bath


see this hose, goes out the window


and the pump connects thus


as we travel out the window note the cable tie. i have intended to make this interface asect a little more sophisticated, with a pipe and extra inlets - would look neater but fuck it for now. im not spilling any so no worries


along the wall it goes, one complete drop wil very little to no sag


to the bucket (60L bin from bunnings for $10)


look at that pouring in! once its in there we can - get this - put the bath pump in the bin, connect to a shortish garden hose (10m) and have a decent flow of water to the garden. not a full on water pressure mind you but good enough, a little slower is all...


alternative is to run extra water into the washing machine...


and the washing machine outlet connects to the same hose - this has a little internal collar which keeps the seal - havent tested yet though. alterntively the machine connects to the downpipe with a little extender, which is working fine

saving at least 60L a day, and that just a baby bath and a couple of showers reused!

[grooki]

Eating meat is one of the hugest contibutors to water usage and green house gas emissions, as well as de-forestation. You can try n save your toilet water, but by becoming a vegetarian, or at least cutting down you meat intake, you will be making a MUCH bigger impact, not to mention lessening the suffereing of factory farmed meat.

[Rob M]

The tide of production were meat is concerned will never change. No matter how many people choose a different lifestyle/diet. I believe your statement to be scare tactic gestapo bullshit.

I agree with you, however, of the implications that producing said meat involves. Notice I use the word producing and not as a result of 'eating.' There are massive differences because even large change on mass doesn't occur instantly; it's a gradual process.

You can become a vegetarian for your own benefit, but how much water is used in production of drugs that supplement the vital nutrients the body needs for proper brain function that eating meat once a week at the most provides?

There is no substitute for meat.

The destabilisation of anything in todays climate is human over-population and gross consumption through drastic comfort zone convenience.

This "convenience" is killing natural human ability and problem-solving skills. It's taken a long time to get to this point, and only now we see it as resources start to dwindle and over-production ensues -- thus resulting in huge perceived environmental shifts that are affecting us all.

Adding your own ingenuity into the world will always win over asking people to change their lifestyle/habits. Don't shift the blame or try and push scare tactics. I applaud people who are doing their bit (here on Melb-beats and around Australia), even if the impact may seem inconsequential to you, it's a lot to me.

The big picture always starts with a small photo.

Your single paragraph statement alone is like taking a knife to each rubber hose that peeps here have created and insulting their intelligence by saying you're not doing enough to satisfy what I expect from you.

[betson]

The big picture always starts with a small photo.

it certainly does, if 10,000 were people saving 60 litres a day its a hell of a saving.

We've gotta start somewhere.

[C.I.A.]

In defence of the stations they actually do get a lot of the water they use from groundwater that they have to drain off the mine anyways,

doesn't that add to salinity???

It depends on what they do with the groundwater after they have finished with it. Salinity is generally caused by a rising groundwater table, but there are also examples of salinity being caused by crapola irrigation practices. Drawing bore water would tend to lower the groundwater table rather than raise it.


Roo is the best. Pretty much organic, they cull them anyway, they have soft paws that don't break the lichen crust that holds much of the topsoil together on the more remote stations, low low low fat and they aren't subjected to some of the more questionable farming practices during their lives (those poor broiler chooks).

I love roo. I love the roo salami you can get at the Vic markets. 99% fat free salami!! Roo looked cheaper than any other cuts of meat last time I grabbed a few steaks from safeway.

:homerdrool:

[FoundationStepper]

i like roo too

took a while to get the cooking of steaks right but

[C.I.A.]

i like roo too

took a while to get the cooking of steaks right but

W3rd. I like my steaks blue rare, so what I do is sear the outside to trap the juices, then chuck them in the oven for 5-10 mins at 180.

Warms them through. Tender and rare (but not cold-raw).

I live on roo salad. Slice the cooked steaks and toss into a bowl with fresh walnuts, crumbled fetta cheese, loads of rocket, balsamic vinegar and a drizzle of first-press olive oil.

Mmmmmm. Healthy, quick, tasty.

[FoundationStepper]

hey thats great!

i think id be less rare (medium rare) than that, maybe i should sear them longer, then the oven? or longer in the oven?

at the moment i think in the main i just need to cut em smaller when sizzling them

[Polecat]

I love roo. I love the roo salami you can get at the Vic markets. 99% fat free salami!! :homerdrool:

Ah yes! I had forgotten about that excellent salami from Handorf. Super yum. We always get some when we're anitpasto shopping

[C.I.A.]

No idea. Hrmmm. I'm going to have to practice and see which way works the best. I'm guessing that just a bit longer in the oven will do it, but be careful... so easy to overcook and turn it into boot leather (I'm sure you have worked this out already, though )

[FoundationStepper]

my first roo steak was a tad bootish

[SoulWhiteMan]

Thanks *catalyst. We've tried, trust me! Unless you're standing there holding the hose in place, it just falls with the weight of the water. The washing machine and the tub are exactly the same height so I think the best thing to do would be cut the hose a bit and attach brackets to the wall to make it sit in place.

We haven't perfected it yet, MacGyver I ain't . Any and all suggestions to make it work better are much appreciated

go to bunnings (i love that place, my old bogan instincts) and go to the plumbing section. You should see brass rings called "pipe routers" for walls, or something like that. From memory, the hose extensions from newish washing machines (the black ones) are 22 mm , otherwise they're 50mm...

get some concrete nails, but not a whole box, just four or five....

align the pipe where you want, and clamp it to the wall; alternatively you could forget the whole clamp and just use four concrete nails, one the top and bottom of the hose, in to places, to hold it in place

x x
========= ||=====================||=======
x x

x - concrete nails
= - pipe/hosing
|| - clamp (optional, you could bend the nails, or put a tiny bit of pressure on the pipe so it is helf firmly in place.

2 easy