Noisy Neighbours - new proposed regulations and stories

[FoundationStepper]

On EPA's noise website http://www.epa.vic.gov.au/noise/residen ... s-2008.asp

EPA has proposed new regulations for residential noise. Noise from residential neighbours is an important environmental issue. Fifteen percent of Victorians said in a recent survey that they were significantly annoyed by residential noise in the previous 12 months.

To help clarify what is unreasonable noise, the Environment Protection (Residential Noise) Regulations 1997 (1997 Regulations) list specific types of equipment and times when their use is prohibited, if they can be heard from another residence.

(e.g stereos, power tools)

The Proposed Environment Protection (Residential Noise) Regulations 2008 (proposed Regulations) address issues raised in consultation, including changes around large-scale residential construction noise.

To assist in the review, a story-gathering process was used to obtain views from the Victorian community. Residents in local areas came together to share their experiences of noise from neighbours.

The noise stories have provided a valuable insight into the issues that can be associated with residential noise. The stories have helped EPA and local government to identify issues and to develop a framework for future guidance.

Its well worth a read and highlights how significant the impacts of noise can be, and the attitudes some people have around making noise.

http://www.epa.vic.gov.au/noise/residen ... tories.asp

[My neighbours] were so upset by the music, abuse etc
that they moved late last year. When they arrived
home with a new baby a party was in full swing… and
they asked if things could be ‘toned down as a new
baby had just come home’. They were told [by the
noise maker], ‘we don’t care, go away’… When I went
and spoke to [the noise makers]: ‘We will be glad when
we leave here, can’t you handle this noise, why don’t
you move?’

I was like that every time I heard thump, and it was like
in a second, the blood pressure went, I was tensed up. I
used to feel physically ill whenever I was driving back
to my house, just going ‘I’m going to cop it tonight or
what’s going to happen?’ You feel constantly on guard,
constantly sick, constantly you’re just a mess, it just
stuffs you.

You couldn't sleep, you couldn't think, you couldn't
watch your tele, you couldn't read… I ended up selling
my house in just over twelve months.

Everywhere we turned it was a dead end… To date,
[the noise maker] has had the police there 300 times.

I started to keep a [noise] diary and it just gets bigger
and bigger… the current one's up to about fifty A4
pages… even with police records … [It] was not
enough for the body corporate or the landlord or the
agent.

‘… How dare you do this? I have a right.’ His words
were, ‘I have a right to play my music’ and I said, ‘Well,
I have a right to peace and quiet.’ I said, ‘I don’t need
to listen to techno.’

Well, we had mediation and all that and they kept on
denying there was any subwoofer coming from there.
[His] mum kept on saying, ‘He just plays Beethoven.’
I'm thinking, ‘Hmmm, Beethoven never had a
subwoofer.’

[lynt]

My neighbour is building a boat in his BACK YARD.

WHAT THE FUCK.


This is good news for me and my hangovers.

[Friday]

a boat?!

we have 4 apartments being built next door right now. they finish right on our property line and right now they're doing the cladding which means noisy noisy stuff created by people on scaffolding overhanging our garden his development has been going for nearly 7 years coz he's so dodgy and council keep putting stop work orders on him.

when this finishes the guy across the road who has another big warehouse is planning on turning his into 6 apartments.

on our other side we have a vacant plot which no doubt will be developed at some time.

so years to come of building work noise! woooo!

plus friday and saturday nights we can hear what band is playing at the northcote social club really clearly - but we can't really whinge about that as we knew we were pretty much out the back of it when we bought the place

[FoundationStepper]

what time does the builder start working on the weekends?

[Blaxter]

soulds like you can make as mauch nosie you like the Friday. Open Season in Northcote

[deviant]

My mate had a letter of warning from the EPA based on a SINGLE gathering at his place which ended at 12:30 on a friday night... there wasn't even any loud music, just talking n stuff.

bit over the top imo

[apophenian]

I have the opposite problem!

The Monday following the weekend that I moved into my current flat, I recieved a note from the neighbour asking that we tone down the 'excessive corridor noise' ie the noise we made whilst actually moving in!
Any slight noise coming from our flat - for example: laughter, even as early as 7.30pm results in an angry banging on the walls downstairs.
I have had a group of friends around for drinks once since moving in around 6 months ago, and the police were called about the noise.

The neighbours that live downstairs seem a little strange - I have never seen them in person, and all their curtains and blinds are always drawn. We have theorized that the banging is actually someone calling for help...

I really like where I live, but i don't think i will be extending the lease...

[JAMESSSS]

I have the opposite problem!

The Monday following the weekend that I moved into my current flat, I recieved a note from the neighbour asking that we tone down the 'excessive corridor noise' ie the noise we made whilst actually moving in!
Any slight noise coming from our flat - for example: laughter, even as early as 7.30pm results in an angry banging on the walls downstairs.
I have had a group of friends around for drinks once since moving in around 6 months ago, and the police were called about the noise.

The neighbours that live downstairs seem a little strange - I have never seen them in person, and all their curtains and blinds are always drawn. We have theorized that the banging is actually someone calling for help...

I really like where I live, but i don't think i will be extending the lease...

What did the police do?

Nothing?

[apophenian]

Yeah nothing - just a note from the EPA. I believe I am the mate that Dan mentioned in the post above.

Sort of sucks though - It makes me feel like I can't really do anything in my own apartment...

[JAMESSSS]

The website says:

The prohibited times apply when the noise can be heard from inside a habitable room of another residential premises.

But never actually defines the noise level. Is there a decibel level that is defined as "heard"?

[FoundationStepper]

no. it would be unnecessarily complex - no police officer, council officer or person would be able to make sense of such a criteria, as it would have to be based on a tolerance above background noise and at such low levels is also very difficult to measure.

[deviant]

^^^ I'm interested to hear your take on apophenian's situation

[FoundationStepper]

my personal understanding.

Aside from the automatic audible test under the regulations, the offence around people noise, footsteps etc is for causing unreasonble noise, not any noise, and id think that one factor to be considered is the type of environment being lived in.

Although people living in apartments need to be more considerate and aware, and a bit more consious around making noise, there are types of sound which are going to be more a byproduct of just moving about the home, made worse by bad apartment design. a person may be troubled by this but its not necessarily the fault of the person doing it.

for example, people talking at home, walking about at night and watching tele at a moderate level in the evening in an apartment might not be unreasonble (even if to the person below its problematic). but the same people yarning at length in the common area at 11 or 12pm, or slamming doors or running around at 2am, or watching movies with a subwoofer cranked (even in the day/evening) might be considered excessive and unreasonable.

there is a need to recognise that there will of course be more impacts in apartment living and be aware of this in making a rental or purchasing decision. different but similar considerations in detached houses etc becuase the impacts are different

people can also become sensitised to noise over time and therefore can have an acute reaction to what might be normal.

[deviant]

I lived next to a level crossing for almost 4years..

you get so used to it, but our neighbour parked his refridgeration truck outside our window for weeks leading up to xmas time with the fridge hooked up to 3phase from his house.... now THAT was fucking annoying.

We knocked on his door at 2am on many occaisions begging him to turn it off.

[almax]

‘… How dare you do this? I have a right.’ His words
were, ‘I have a right to play my music’ and I said, ‘Well,
I have a right to peace and quiet.’ I said, ‘I don’t need
to listen to techno.’

[/quote]

obviously this guy is misguided, EVERYONE needs to listen to techno

[C.I.A.]

I have the opposite problem!

The Monday following the weekend that I moved into my current flat, I recieved a note from the neighbour asking that we tone down the 'excessive corridor noise' ie the noise we made whilst actually moving in!
Any slight noise coming from our flat - for example: laughter, even as early as 7.30pm results in an angry banging on the walls downstairs.
I have had a group of friends around for drinks once since moving in around 6 months ago, and the police were called about the noise.

The neighbours that live downstairs seem a little strange - I have never seen them in person, and all their curtains and blinds are always drawn. We have theorized that the banging is actually someone calling for help...

I really like where I live, but i don't think i will be extending the lease...

What did the police do?

Nothing?

I lived two doors down from a dude with severe schitzophrenia. Friends of mine lived between me and him. One night, these guys were playing D&D and this guy knocked on their front door so hard he broke through the glass on the door and slashed his wrists. He thought their cries of "arrrghhh" when one of them was slain by an elf was actually them being gored to death by a maurauding bull.

Apparently Schitzophrenia has symptoms of heightened hearing (both real and imagined).

Not much help, but it could explain the strange behaviour/complaints about the noise you make walking down yr corridor.

[Blaxter]

I lived next to a level crossing for almost 4years..

I currently live next to level crossing and don't uinderstand waht the bells are for.
You can't really hear them from inside a vehcile, especially with music playing. Normal traffic lights don't have bells and everyone sems to stop for those.
The gates shut before the train goes through, so you can't get hit by it on a bike or from walking.

[almax]

I lived next to a level crossing for almost 4years..

I currently live next to level crossing and don't uinderstand waht the bells are for.
You can't really hear them from inside a vehcile, especially with music playing. Normal traffic lights don't have bells and everyone sems to stop for those.
The gates shut before the train goes through, so you can't get hit by it on a bike or from walking.

its so ravers can get out of the car and shuffle to pass the time, you know that track, rock the bells, inspired by this

[JAMESSSS]

FS, can talking (even shouting?) ever be a problem, no matter what the volume or time?

That website lists 5 categories, none of which are aimed at non electornic, non mechanical, non amplied noise.

Just asking out of interest.

[Polecat]

FS, can talking (even shouting?) ever be a problem, no matter what the volume or time?

My old neighbour used to talk very loudly. Their house had bare flooring, no curtains, and so the rooms just echoed like crazy with his booming voice and the high ceilings. It used to drive me crazy as we had a thick solid wall between our terraces, and I don't ever hear the neighbours on the other side, and only heard the girls who used to live it that house when they were having a party. Add to that he used to like to have his domestics in the backyard at 2am and have the TV on super loud. SO GLAD HE IS GONE NOW.

[FoundationStepper]

jbs

Section 48A of the Environment Protection Act 1970 applies to all residential premies. It has two main parts.

3 and 4 describe unreasonble noise. Anything can be unreasonable noise depending on the circunstances.

Subsection 5 sets up the regulations, which are the times and items you are looking at. these are the automatically unreasonable things, if audible. It doesnt limit what can be unreasonable under subsection 3 but provides a simple test for common house hold items.

So yes, talking can be defined as unreasonable noise. its just not as clear cut as stereos etc

(3) A person who emits or causes or suffers to be emitted unreasonable noise from any residential premises is guilty of an offence.

(4) For the purposes of subsection (3), noise is to be taken to be unreasonable if it is unreasonable
having regard to—
(a) its volume, intensity or duration; and
(b) the time, place and other circumstances in which it is emitted.

(5) Without limiting the generality of subsection (3), any noise from a prescribed item which—
(a) is emitted from residential premises at any time which is prescribed as a prohibited time in respect of that prescribed item; and
(b) can be heard in a habitable room in any other residential premises, regardless of whether any door or window giving access to that room is open—
is deemed to be unreasonable noise unless it is emitted in the case of an emergency.

[mrj]

I lived next to a level crossing for almost 4years..

I currently live next to level crossing and don't uinderstand waht the bells are for.
You can't really hear them from inside a vehcile, especially with music playing. Normal traffic lights don't have bells and everyone sems to stop for those.
The gates shut before the train goes through, so you can't get hit by it on a bike or from walking.

blind pedestrians maybe?

[JAMESSSS]

jbs

Section 48A of the Environment Protection Act 1970 applies to all residential premies. It has two main parts.

3 and 4 describe unreasonble noise. Anything can be unreasonable noise depending on the circunstances.

Subsection 5 sets up the regulations, which are the times and items you are looking at. these are the automatically unreasonable things, if audible. It doesnt limit what can be unreasonable under subsection 3 but provides a simple test for common house hold items.

So yes, talking can be defined as unreasonable noise. its just not as clear cut as stereos etc

(3) A person who emits or causes or suffers to be emitted unreasonable noise from any residential premises is guilty of an offence.

(4) For the purposes of subsection (3), noise is to be taken to be unreasonable if it is unreasonable
having regard to—
(a) its volume, intensity or duration; and
(b) the time, place and other circumstances in which it is emitted.

(5) Without limiting the generality of subsection (3), any noise from a prescribed item which—
(a) is emitted from residential premises at any time which is prescribed as a prohibited time in respect of that prescribed item; and
(b) can be heard in a habitable room in any other residential premises, regardless of whether any door or window giving access to that room is open—
is deemed to be unreasonable noise unless it is emitted in the case of an emergency.

Thanks! That makes sense.

[mrj]

We have many noise issues.

One neighbour has a (I assume) young kid in a teen rock band. He is the drummer and has about zero natural timing. Over a year of pratice has him now hitting drums faster, but with about as much rhythm as the day he started, which is to say none. Their lead singer has no range, and I don't think I have ever heard him sing on key. The bassist is getting better but still sucks badly. They get together and jam to essentially the Commitments sountrack.

Above us (our house is divided top/bottom units) is a couple who like a good yelling match and sound like they are constantly moving furniture.

Then there are the next door neighbours who made all the noise last night. Their modus operandi is front and back doors open and back windows, stereo cranked, sit in the back yard with 10 mates on Sunday night. Sometimes Wednesday.

I like to think I'm pretty tolerant, have been in my house more than 2 years and experience the above at least once a week from each culprit, but have only ever complained once, and that was last night.

I think people tend to over complain, and everyone needs to excericse a bit of tolerance, but yeh there does need to be some better ways to enforce it.

[FoundationStepper]

no worries

[Spicy]

do you guys remember the article about a stupid grandma living on st kilda road who complained about the noise pollution from sidney myer music bowl?

frankly, if you decide to live ina an area next to a music venue, bar, pub, whatever similar, YOU WILL GET NOISE.

on saturday i DJed at mother's milk in windsor, and they STILL have to comply with an epa crackdown (it started a few months ago) where they can't put the music up and it has to be real quiet. i don't see the point in having a DJ there if it's that quiet, because no one can hear it. the point is, that venue is on the bottom end of chapel street along side some other bars in the area - surely the residents would realise where the fuck they live and then shut the fuck up because they live in a noisy suburb?

this country's turning way too straight and narrow if you get what i mean. time to move out.

[Feigan]

do you guys remember the article about a stupid grandma living on st kilda road who complained about the noise pollution from sidney myer music bowl?

frankly, if you decide to live ina an area next to a music venue, bar, pub, whatever similar, YOU WILL GET NOISE.

on saturday i DJed at mother's milk in windsor, and they STILL have to comply with an epa crackdown (it started a few months ago) where they can't put the music up and it has to be real quiet. i don't see the point in having a DJ there if it's that quiet, because no one can hear it. the point is, that venue is on the bottom end of chapel street along side some other bars in the area - surely the residents would realise where the fuck they live and then shut the fuck up because they live in a noisy suburb?

this country's turning way too straight and narrow if you get what i mean. time to move out.

You played at Mothers on Saturday night? Nice one - how was it? I miss my Satday night MOthers sessions.

[huge]

our neighbour over the back fence has just got a budgie. it chirps NON STOP from about 6am till it gets dark and they take it inside or put a blanket over it or something cos it shuts up at night.

bad thing is it is our landlord lol so cant murder or emancipate the bird.

also our landlord has regular screaming matches with his wife. always about money hungry kids that are slowly whittling away his fortune.

what can you do when its your landlord!?

[FoundationStepper]

not much lol. you could do something but i reckon it wouldnt so you any favours!

[Fents]

ahhhh neighbours...

a lady one one side who we never hear a peep fom and the other sides a high school so we can make as much noise as we want to.

i feel for all you peeps with bad neighbours.

[FoundationStepper]

on saturday i DJed at mother's milk in windsor, and they STILL have to comply with an epa crackdown (it started a few months ago) where they can't put the music up and it has to be real quiet. i don't see the point in having a DJ there if it's that quiet, because no one can hear it.

on the other hand, if a venue plans to have djs (for economic gain) then designing the venue accordingly, instead of putting in a soundsystem and causing problems first is a reasonble expectation.

from my time selling soundsystems, i know too many venues just suck it and see with sound/noise - its a lame attitude to whats a big part of the business. many also evolve deliberately from what they first got approval for - going from a cafe, to bar, to nightclub without upgrading thier soundproofing.

the point is, that venue is on the bottom end of chapel street along side some other bars in the area - surely the residents would realise where the fuck they live and then shut the fuck up because they live in a noisy suburb?

many suburbs such as fitzroy had an established residential population before they became venue centric. furthermore, where there were venues they didn't trade as late, not have as loud (bassy) music.

this country's turning way too straight and narrow if you get what i mean. time to move out.

there have always been standards, but increased urbanisation + music/entertainment changes just puts the squeeze on them.

[Polecat]

We have many noise issues.
I like to think I'm pretty tolerant, have been in my house more than 2 years and experience the above at least once a week from each culprit, but have only ever complained once, and that was last night.

If you're in the same place mrj then that is bad I didn't have nearly the same amount of noise problems except occassionally upstairs tenants thumped through the house a bit.

I went to talk to my neighbours once about the loud talking but I got the housemate who didn't make much noise and could only request he pass on the feedback. I never approached the noisy neighbour myself because he looked a bit scary, and after hearing his domestics we didnt think he was 100% there.

[C.I.A.]

Lolz. So glad I can't hear neighbours and they can't hear me.

mrj's place is a nightmare.

The people who live above him not only love a good screaming match, but they have also woken me up when they get jiggy wit it in the middle of the night... the floor is v. squeaky. They also recently invested in what sounds like a treadmill. Concentrating on the tv is impossible when they start running. The gay boys next door blasting Streisand, Kylie and Farnham at full volume are the worst, though. They sit squealing at one another and their fag hags in the backyard irrespective of the weather or time of night while "the age of reason" plays on high rotation.

[Spicy]

You played at Mothers on Saturday night? Nice one - how was it? I miss my Satday night MOthers sessions.

hahah yep i did (was a fill in gig for nathan aka nackers -- know?)..and you mean saturday night perve sessions that place has the hottest girls in town! by girls i mean blonde barbies, but still hot ones. place was ultra rammed on saturday night, but the music was barely audible from near the bar and upstairs. basically the booth speaker was the loudest in the whole venue and acted as the main source of music, which is sad really. having said that, it's pretty cool bar. when did you used to DJ there?

FoundationStepper, you're right man i guess i was just pissed off about what is happening. i have played at that venue before when it was pumping and going right off! i have also experienced robarta in stkilda cut their bass completely so that it doesn't carry.

it's really annoying, and i blame it on the older generation. there are too many baby boomers who have this shitty mind set where they have to have everything their own way, and now that they're all old and have had their fun, so now everyone else must be on their tip toes while they watch replays of hey hey it's saturday on VHS.

younger folks wouldn't give a fuck about noise, so long as they can join the party!

[mrj]

We have many noise issues.
I like to think I'm pretty tolerant, have been in my house more than 2 years and experience the above at least once a week from each culprit, but have only ever complained once, and that was last night.

If you're in the same place mrj then that is bad I didn't have nearly the same amount of noise problems except occassionally upstairs tenants thumped through the house a bit.

I went to talk to my neighbours once about the loud talking but I got the housemate who didn't make much noise and could only request he pass on the feedback. I never approached the noisy neighbour myself because he looked a bit scary, and after hearing his domestics we didnt think he was 100% there.

yep still same place

the unit above is naturally noisy, but the two girls who lived above us prior were not nearly as noisy as the couple thats in there now. yes you could hear em move around (sometimes sounded like they were ten pin bowling which was fucking weird) but most of the time it was ok.

this couple though is much louder. yelling (with her sobbing at the end, no violence tho thankfully), emo music from hell quite loud, moving stuff, and occasionally the rubbing of rudeys.

[Feigan]

You played at Mothers on Saturday night? Nice one - how was it? I miss my Satday night MOthers sessions.

hahah yep i did (was a fill in gig for nathan aka nackers -- know?)..and you mean saturday night perve sessions that place has the hottest girls in town! by girls i mean blonde barbies, but still hot ones. place was ultra rammed on saturday night, but the music was barely audible from near the bar and upstairs. basically the booth speaker was the loudest in the whole venue and acted as the main source of music, which is sad really. having said that, it's pretty cool bar. when did you used to DJ there?

I did Mothers for about a year and a half I think with Nackers. Finished in December last year before I moved up to Sydders...

It's a gold little venue. Sucks that the sound restrictions have toned things down in there.

and yes - quite a bit of the old eye candy floating around in there....

I miss Mothers milk.

[Direkt]

I've got it pretty sweet.

A kid with Down Syndrome down stairs to the right who goes crazy maybe 1-2 a month, slamming doors etc.

Devil child below bottom left who screams like the possessed.

Rotating neighbours across from us who have the odd fight...

So, all in all - I get to play music loud on the weekend.

[Baby Ruth]

Hmmm, how about the cars with the really loud doof doof next to my bedroom window? guess i could get their number plates! Then again, i chose to live on the highway.

But my sister lives under a lady who has started collecting novelty cuckoo clocks! and then got a treadmill.

Wasn't there a huge party about 2 doors down from mothers milk on Saturday night? Suprised the noise expected from their sound system didn't drown you out!

[Hardy]

" How dare you do this? I have a right." His words
were, "I have a right to play my music" and I said, "Well,
I have a right to peace and quiet." I said, "I don't need
to listen to techno."

obviously this guy is misguided, EVERYONE needs to listen to techno

Motherfucker needs to get educated.

[gnat]

haha hardy!

i complained to the cops a few months back about neighbours up the street smashing shit happy hard core still at 3am so fucking loud it sounded like it was in my room. also fuckheads out smashing bottles on the road and being derros kicking the phone box etc. cops came, they got shut down and fined becoz it was apparently the 4th complaint that night

probably would have let it go if they were playing decent tunes and not smashing glass outside my window. also they're ugly and clearly fuckwits lol i already hated them prior to this

my immediate neighbours have never complained despite several big 'bbq's' we've had that smash on until 4am and sitting in my courtyard with a gaggle of munters post party at 6am

lol some of the stories they must have heard over the years, the crap spoken. i'm so surprised i've never had a knock on the door.

[breaksRbest]

my immediate neighbours have never complained despite several big 'bbq's' we've had that smash on until 4am and sitting in my courtyard with a gaggle of munters post party at 6am

lol some of the stories they must have heard over the years, the crap spoken. i'm so surprised i've never had a knock on the door.

Jeeeeeebus, they could dish the dirt couldn't they?

At least they know the REAL story about the Baby Jesus now

[gnat]

my immediate neighbours have never complained despite several big 'bbq's' we've had that smash on until 4am and sitting in my courtyard with a gaggle of munters post party at 6am

lol some of the stories they must have heard over the years, the crap spoken. i'm so surprised i've never had a knock on the door.

Jeeeeeebus, they could dish the dirt couldn't they?

At least they know the REAL story about the Baby Jesus now

and then some..

[autumnleaves]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone here live in Carlton North in an apartment block (I think it was coming from an apartment block) and was pumping out some damn loud DnB about a week or so ago? I would have complained but I liked the music too much

[Polecat]

I'm in North Carlton but not in an apartment.

A while ago there were some Sunday afternoon band parties on the roof of a triangular looking apartment block, opposite the Rathdowne Tavern. I could hear the party from my backyard because of the wind. I wished I was invited because they looked like great parties!