Melbourne's graffiti might recieve heritage protection

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Melbourne's graffiti might recieve heritage protection

Post by Spicy »

this is great news, and very nice to see some more people in power actually appreciating melbournes awesome street art. makes me proud to be a melbournian!
CONSIDERED by many as vandalism, some of the graffiti in Melbourne's laneways could receive heritage protection in a move supported by the National Trust and Heritage Victoria.

The contentious plan will be discussed at an international conference on intangible heritage in Melbourne next week, despite the introduction of tough anti-graffiti legislation by the State Government last year.

The National Trust's cultural heritage manager Tracey Avery said graffiti deserved to be recognised as a legitimate art form and called for an urgent audit of all culturally significant works in the inner city.

"Graffiti is a unique part of Melbourne's urban fabric, particularly in our laneways, which attract a huge amount of visitors and contribute to the city's vibrancy."

But Ms Avery conceded the ephemeral nature of graffiti made it difficult to protect. "In a practical sense, we may need to photograph the work and interview the artists so we get a social history about graffiti," she said.

Heritage Victoria has welcomed nominations for graffiti to be placed on the state register, after listing a council-sanctioned mural in Collingwood by late New York artist Keith Haring.

In a recent online poll by travel company Lonely Planet, Melbourne's laneways and street art were voted the nation's most popular cultural attractions. And the renowned graffitist, British artist Banksy, said Melbourne's laneways were "arguably Australia's most significant contribution to the arts since they stole all the Aborigines' pencils".

The push to protect street art has also been endorsed by Municipal Association of Victoria president Dick Gross, who said Melbourne needed to acknowledge the cultural, tourism and economic value of graffiti.

Rather than protect specific works, Cr Gross favoured the preservation of popular graffiti sites, including Hosier Lane.

But the issue is expected to divide local government, with fierce opposition from many outer-suburban councils that spend millions of dollars removing graffiti each year.

Casey councillor and Residents Against Graffiti Everywhere spokesman Steve Beardon said graffiti was a scourge in any form. "This will send a clear message that graffiti is acceptable and opens the floodgates. Zero tolerance is the only way."

Casey council recently charged 25 people with 390 vandalism offences, which cost the community more than $165,000 in damages.

MAV chief executive Rob Spence is an unabashed admirer and lives next door to a former Collingwood church adorned with illegal graffiti. "It's the current form of political expression and some of the stencil art is just magnificent," Mr Spence said.

Melbourne City Council recently covered a Banksy stencil in Cocker Alley with perspex to prevent it being vandalised.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/antig ... -2uzy.html

*thumbs up*
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Post by ADD_Boy »

AWESOME.

Fingers crossed.
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Post by kronz »

And the renowned graffitist, British artist Banksy, said Melbourne's laneways were "arguably Australia's most significant contribution to the arts since they stole all the Aborigines' pencils"
GO CATS! GO CATS!
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Post by botias »

really how can you think this is a good idea??

Dont you think its a bit of a double standard considering the new anti graffiti laws.

According to that article graffiti is one of the major draw cards for Melbourne's tourism.which means they make a bucket load of money off of illegal works. yet the people who are doing the works could be thrown into jail for 3 years or what ever it is and get fined up to 25 thousand dollars.

if they were serious about this stuff then these new laws wouldnt of come into place



The artists are the only really losers here
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Post by Spicy »

botias relax man, maybe it's not a double standard. councils and parliament are the only ones having a hissy fit over graffiti. it's too bad they are the ones who run this state..

having someone from the heritage department and the municipal association on your side is one small step to working things out for the better.

i would hope so anyway, i mean it seems logical.
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Post by botias »

it seems logical not to introduce those new laws for something as trivial as graffiti.
if they were serious these new laws wouldnt be in place the fact that some douche bag from the heritage department likes graffiti, seems pointless and is offensive to some one like my self....
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Post by Spicy »

i think the laws are bullshit too, but i reckon if you look at the big picture, we have to take baby steps first to get the general public to accept graffiti as art. majority of folks still reckon it's vantalism! so i guess this could be a step in the right direction. hope so!
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Post by Direkt »

botias wrote:it seems logical not to introduce those new laws for something as trivial as graffiti.
if they were serious these new laws wouldnt be in place the fact that some douche bag from the heritage department likes graffiti, seems pointless and is offensive to some one like my self....
Are you for or against legalising graffiti?
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Post by botias »

ive been writting for almost 10 years i am very much for graffiti but think the stance the goverment and council takes on the subject is a load of shit...its either one way or the other..not this crap ohhh lets list some graffiti on the heritage list cause it has some kind of impact on society....that is bull shit
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Post by JAMESSSS »

Spicy wrote:i think the laws are bullshit too, but i reckon if you look at the big picture, we have to take baby steps first to get the general public to accept graffiti as art. majority of folks still reckon it's vantalism! so i guess this could be a step in the right direction. hope so!
The problem being that it is vandalism most of the time I think.
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Post by deviant »

The fact that it is illegal is part of the appeal I thought :?

If it was just "art" then it would be in galleries and "legal" walls only. Which would kind of take away a massive part of what it is.
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Post by mrj »

botias wrote:ive been writting for almost 10 years i am very much for graffiti but think the stance the goverment and council takes on the subject is a load of shit...its either one way or the other..not this crap ohhh lets list some graffiti on the heritage list cause it has some kind of impact on society....that is bull shit
so you are FOR graffiti (which is fine, I am too) but yet you are offended by someone from the government finally jumping the fence and coming to your aid?

Sorry but I'm very confused. How can you get angry at someone supporting a scene you clearly love?

You can't bleat about the government and the council having the wrong attitude, and then get upset when a group from the government emerges with the right one.
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Post by Direkt »

^ that's what I didn't get.

Calling him a "douche bag".
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Post by Feigan »

I think I get where Botia is coming from.

Govt & Council has gone from one extreme being that they will fine, gaol and punish offenders for putting up, while they are now turning back on what they have been enforcing saying that they will heritage list some pieces as it's a drawcard for Melbourne tourism.

I get the gist I think. It's just a bit hypocritical that they took one stance, now they're flipping it on it's head.

I'm not up to speed on what the current situation is regarding penalties for getting caught graffing, but surely this is a contradiction on the Govt/Councils part...

or am I reading this wrong?
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Post by Direkt »

The Government is comprised of many different departments, and many different people.

Surely, if you're a pro-graffiti person, it's good to see some of them starting to shed some positive light on graf?

Bearing in mind it would be irresponsible for the Government to come out and completely sanction graffiti - no holds barred.
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Post by mrj »

Exactly.

We forget that Governments are made up of people, and that people sometimes have varying opinions.

I don't think this is a deliberate move by the State Government as a whole to try and play both sides. Instead its a government department going out on a limb, by itself, and in so doing going against its own administration, and probably to its own detriment.

I bet ya $100 that however much funding Heritage Vic puts into these programs will be the amount that their budget reduces by next year.
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Post by deviant »

I was thinking about this the other day.... (before I saw this article)

All these people that get all passionate about street art/graf etc etc and feel persecuted by the authorities really should just get on with it...

it's illegal, it ALWAYS will be (as long as property is allowed to be owned)... It's the governments job to enforce the laws and make the punishments a deterent to people committing the offences.. GET OVER IT... if you are going to write graffiti, then just get out and do it... stop postulating about the "fairness" of the laws/punishments.

There are two side to the coin. If you were a property owner who hated graf (for asthetic reasons AND vandalism reasons) you'd be faken pissed if the government were condoning graffiti.

I'm all for it, I like the look, I like thinking about the people who did it (tags and the like) I like the vibe of it. The whole thing wouldn't be a mysterious and interesting if it were made "legal"... as I mentioned before.... do you really want graf to be just another form of art that didn't hold the mystery and rebelion that it currently does? I wouldn't.
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Post by Direkt »

deviant wrote:I was thinking about this the other day.... (before I saw this article)

All these people that get all passionate about street art/graf etc etc and feel persecuted by the authorities really should just get on with it...

it's illegal, it ALWAYS will be (as long as property is allowed to be owned)... It's the governments job to enforce the laws and make the punishments a deterent to people committing the offences.. GET OVER IT... if you are going to write graffiti, then just get out and do it... stop postulating about the "fairness" of the laws/punishments.

There are two side to the coin. If you were a property owner who hated graf (for asthetic reasons AND vandalism reasons) you'd be faken pissed if the government were condoning graffiti.
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Post by ghetto kitty »

i agree with deviant.

but i also agree that is pretty laughable what they are proposing

for these reasons

1) the zero tolerance fine is ludicrous, and makes it impossible for anyone who 'does art' to justify why they might have spray paint on them

2) she says 'we want to interview that artists and photograph the work'
but both of these things go against the premis of graff/street art.
they DONT want to be interviewed, and hopefully, the art will
CHANGE regularly. so this is just a silly thing to say.

3) the state govt brought in zero tolerance, and the melb city council brought in the 'legal street art permit' system to get around that for venues/buisness owners who LIKE graff and want it aruond, and also as a way to combat tagging. this is great, and kudos to melb city council for doing so, but MANY places in the CBD are still not aware of this fact, even those on shitty alleys where this idea works well.

4) the day has passed. a few years ago, weekly the walls of the city and train lines would change. this is happening less and less, and now many of the artists are doing gallery work, getting paid for what they do, and not risking jailtime.

too little, too late imho.
plus, after all the 'talks' about ways aruond zero tolerance, they went and did it anyways...

even if this DOES happen, (which i doubt) its going to be a commodified, watered down, nicely packaged tourism thing and wont accurately tell of the wider picture, the brooklyn train yards, the regular connex attacks,
its gonna be ten stencils and rone's face and thats gonna be 'melbourne'

you think they gonna 'preserve' any of 70K's shit? and yet anyone will agree that they are just or more a part of melb graff than rone.

meh.
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Post by deviant »

I'm stumped as to why they can't bringin zero tolerance to violence.... if they can do it for this :?
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Post by Andrez »

Nice point, Deviant.

In fact, nice points from most people above.

And my 2 cents' worth? I love graf, and am guilty as charged of some past less-than-artistic activities; many of my mates were graffing Melbourne and Sydney in the early 1990s.

But here in Tokyo there's very little graf to speak of, and what there is I treasure. Yet I treasure it more because it's difficult to find.

Funny that.
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Post by system »

15 years too late imo.
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Post by Spicy »

why are you guys saying that it's too late? is it because the graffers from back then have already been arrested or sold out (so to speak) to galleries or whatever?

i reckon if this trend from the authorities continues (minus the fines and shit) there will be a new generation of artists popping out with completely fresh ideas, and might just work in favor of this town's reputation of having awesome street art. if it works out, there will be more art and of a quality higher than ever.

it's never too late to change for the better! i have high hopes i suppose...
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Post by breaksRbest »

Andrez wrote:But here in Tokyo there's very little graf to speak of, and what there is I treasure. Yet I treasure it more because it's difficult to find.

Funny that.

check this out....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GBCpbVQ_Sk

then buy the book...

http://www.urbanretrolifestyle.com/2007 ... -graffiti/
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Post by Scotrod »

How ridiculous...honestly.....

So if you put up as a kid or even carry paint you could get nabbed. If you get better and a bit of fame, you then could get busted for all the past pieces you've done, end up with mammoth fines and jail time. But if you get through stage one and two, you could then become part of our city's heritage!!!
Please....
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Post by ghetto kitty »

Spicy wrote: it's never too late to change for the better! i have high hopes i suppose...
have you ever done illegal graff or hung out with graffers/artists who spend their own cash and risk their freedom to create art on walls and streets where most people/most society/most laws deem them vandals?

its NOT a change for the better and i bet many of them would agree.

read my post again as to WHY its not better.
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Post by Andrez »

breaksRbest wrote:
Andrez wrote:But here in Tokyo there's very little graf to speak of, and what there is I treasure. Yet I treasure it more because it's difficult to find.

Funny that.

check this out....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GBCpbVQ_Sk

then buy the book...

http://www.urbanretrolifestyle.com/2007 ... -graffiti/
Yep, I know that one. It's here, for sure, but not everywhere. You need to hunt it down. Which is cool.
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Post by Spicy »

ghetto kitty wrote:
Spicy wrote: it's never too late to change for the better! i have high hopes i suppose...
have you ever done illegal graff or hung out with graffers/artists who spend their own cash and risk their freedom to create art on walls and streets where most people/most society/most laws deem them vandals?

its NOT a change for the better and i bet many of them would agree.

read my post again as to WHY its not better.
yeah i have (not done it myself, but have hung out with graffers a few times before). that's exactly my point - society thinks they are vandals and should be outcast and put in jail. i think by having public figures speak out and say 'no, that's artwork and not many of you common folk could actually pull that off' is one step forward to a positive frame of mind on our society's behalf.
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Post by mrj »

Andrez wrote:Nice point, Deviant.

In fact, nice points from most people above.

And my 2 cents' worth? I love graf, and am guilty as charged of some past less-than-artistic activities; many of my mates were graffing Melbourne and Sydney in the early 1990s.

But here in Tokyo there's very little graf to speak of, and what there is I treasure. Yet I treasure it more because it's difficult to find.

Funny that.
I was stunned by the lack of graffiti in Tokyo, but not suprised. If that makes sense.

When people are clean to the point of sweeping leaves and rubbish off the ROAD outside their house, and the train tracks look as though they have been vacuumed, you can be farely sure that that graffiti once up won't last long.
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Post by Jinx »

Graffiti isn't graffiti if it's legal.
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Post by system »

Spicy wrote:why are you guys saying that it's too late? is it because the graffers from back then have already been arrested or sold out (so to speak) to galleries or whatever?
because so much amazing art has been destroyed already - including that piece by keith haring.
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Post by nic »

graffiti is transient, i couldnt care less if a banksy piece got tagged by a bogan. as imprtant as preserving teh actual pieces would be haveing some form of oral history / interviews with artists doing thsui kind of work imo.
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Post by ruby »

nic wrote:graffiti is transient, i couldnt care less if a banksy piece got tagged by a bogan. as imprtant as preserving teh actual pieces would be haveing some form of oral history / interviews with artists doing thsui kind of work imo.
Agreed.
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Post by botias »

heritage listing places such as hoiser lane are just plain retarded that lane changed so much that it is almost impossible to acctually save any one piece of work in there.
and as a painter i dont go painting to get recognition from the general public i couldnt care less what they think..and i like that. talk to any one who paints and they will think along the same lines..
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Post by ghetto kitty »

spicy > no, i dont think so man. I dont think the kind of 'recognition' you are talking about is desired by the people who do street Art.
if they dont want to be seen as vandals, they paint on canvas, simple.

heres two others reasons why this is a FUCKED idea, and actually makes me ANGRY, not happy.
botias wrote: and as a painter i dont go painting to get recognition from the general public i couldnt care less what they think..and i like that.
nic wrote:graffiti is transient
nic > there IS interviews etc out there. have you seen RASH?
also the book 'stencil capital melbourne' written by meek and sixten,and features many well known melb artists...
go check out polyester or metropolis, there is PLENTY of books on graff and stencils and pasties and they are often written by
people with an appreciation for the art, or the artists themselves,
not some government fuckwits who legislate against things and then try to captialise on them at the same time!

mornin rant over.
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Post by botias »

werd ghetto
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Post by Andrez »

:wink:
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Post by DBoy »

BammBamm wrote:Graffiti isn't graffiti if it's legal.
:?:
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Post by DBoy »

Nic – you hit it on the head. Part of the appeal of the graffiti generations is that things are temporary. It is effecting design across the board, things are made to be enjoyed and disposed off. Many of the more long term things don’t appeal and graffiti is perfect example. The fact that someone wants to try to capture a moment by preserving a piece of street graffiti just shows that old sentiment is not dead, but it is dieing. It goes up, it comes down, it gets gone ever.

As for graffiti not being graffiti if it is not illegal, I do not understand. Does it just become named something different if it is done on my wall in my house? Surely at this point it is recognised as ligit art in it’s many different forms, be it illegal or not.
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Post by deviant »

DBoy wrote: :?:
:?:
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Post by ghetto kitty »

DBoy wrote: As for graffiti not being graffiti if it is not illegal, I do not understand. Does it just become named something different if it is done on my wall in my house? Surely at this point it is recognised as ligit art in it’s many different forms, be it illegal or not.
if its legal, its a mural, or a painting.
if its on your wall, its a canvas by a well known graffer, meaning he spends his time and energy on the streets, mainly. you can still call it 'graff styles' as many people do, but if someone jsut does freehand spraypaint canvases and nothing else, it aint graff baby.

graff is ILLEGAL, and people who do graff often LIKE being illegitimate!

thats just my opinion anyhow..
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Post by DBoy »

deviant wrote:
DBoy wrote: :?:
:?:
Image
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Post by deviant »

lol
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Post by DBoy »

ghetto kitty wrote:
DBoy wrote: As for graffiti not being graffiti if it is not illegal, I do not understand. Does it just become named something different if it is done on my wall in my house? Surely at this point it is recognised as ligit art in it’s many different forms, be it illegal or not.
if its legal, its a mural, or a painting.
if its on your wall, its a canvas by a well known graffer, meaning he spends his time and energy on the streets, mainly. you can still call it 'graff styles' as many people do, but if someone jsut does freehand spraypaint canvases and nothing else, it aint graff baby.

graff is ILLEGAL, and people who do graff often LIKE being illegitimate!

thats just my opinion anyhow..
What a wank!
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Post by deviant »

explain yourself D

I think she makes a valid point......
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Post by ghetto kitty »

seriously?

i dont think that risking your freedom for art's sake and then being protective of your shit from the people who want to cash in on that a

WANK.

:roll:
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Post by DBoy »

I guess I just see the defining of the term graffiti for only illegally painted art as a bit of a wank.

I think graffiti as a style, and not just done with cans or on walls in illegal situations.

It is just a definition, does not change what is happening or what you are doing. Why so protective of the word?
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Post by deviant »

The style wouldn't even exsist if it weren't for the illegality and illegal work... I think it's a pretty defining characteristic.
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Post by ghetto kitty »

its not a 'style' when you realize that pasties of poems, giant sculptures, small installations, paint of all kinds, etc etc are graff.
you are talking about an asthetic stereotype, when you say 'style'

is all graffitti if its on the streets and is illegal.

the definition on wiki is

Graffitti> ; is the name for images or lettering scratched, scrawled, painted or marked in any manner on property. Graffiti is sometimes regarded as a form of art and other times regarded as unsightly damage or unwanted vandalism.

Graffiti can be anything from simple scratch marks to elaborate wall paintings. In modern times, spray paint and markers have become the most commonly used materials. Sometimes graffiti is employed to communicate social and political messages. To some, it is an art form worthy of display in galleries and exhibitions, to others it is merely vandalism. There are many different types and styles of graffiti and it is a rapidly evolving artform whose value is highly contested, being reviled by many authorities while also subject to protection, sometimes within the same jurisdiction.

and this last part, is what we are discussing and WHY people who do graff defend it so adamantly.
i thought you of all people, with your interests and your job, could appreciate that dave!
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Post by DBoy »

i just don't think it needs to be illegal to be graffiti. I think a piece done in my house on my wall, or with permission on a wall is still graff.
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