the green thread

For all your off topic conversation requirements. No posts about gigs please, use the Music forum. As usual, no "NSFW" material, keep it clean.
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flippo
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the green thread

Post by flippo »

No its not about weed! sorry fents...

any opinions, or links, articles, positive and negative banter about all green issues. Resouces, energy, animooools, whatever.

i'll get the ball rolling.

http://www.johnthwaites.com.au/pdfs/Con ... 018-29.pdf

Mr Thwaites is doing a survey for Victorians aged 18-29.

it's a bit here and there.... can't hurt tho.
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Post by DBoy »

My company became waste-wise accreddited this year. Bloody hassel considering how much waste we have, but satisfying and I believe positive step.
What happens to our waste is as big an issue as any in the green sector IMO.
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Post by lucas »

Critical Mass
http://critical-mass.info/

Last Friday of every month (this Friday). 5:30pm. Meet at the State Library.
if you're a bicyclist in the city around the end of the day & you'd like to ride home safely with a group of other riders going home at the same time (5.30pm) - people who ride human powered vehicles are likely to be found at the State Library in Swanston St (& at over 230 other places in cities all round the world) in numbers sufficient to ensure that when they all ride to their various homes on the highway at that time they are likely to form for a short period the dominant transport mode ......

Critical Mass is when hundreds of cyclists ride together in peak hour traffic for safety, enjoyment and to celebrate a shared vision of a city without cars. Melbourne Critical Mass started in November 1995 and has since been riding on the last Friday of every month. We meet at the State Library in Swanston Street at 5:30pm.
"Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted." - Martin Luther King Jr.
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Post by DBoy »

I hope the Melbourne council follows through on their plans to mass purchase bicycles for public use in a certain radias.

Denmark and Holland have similar systems in place. Works.
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Post by lynt »

Sometimes, if they're not at the bottom of canals... :lol:
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Post by DBoy »

got a story to tell Lynt.
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Post by mrj »

for the record I love the CM guys. Not afraid to get miltant. Which I believe is neccesary.
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Re: the green thread

Post by Fents »

flippo wrote:No its not about weed! sorry fents...
You so did that on purpose cunt0x.

Well just cause u did - Green it up i say!

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Fuk yea can smell it from here..................
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Post by lucas »

Yes. CM rocks. If there are any mb.c crew there on Friday keep an eye out for me. Green single speed Kona with black mud guards (Steve McQueen stylee).
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Post by flippo »

lucas wrote: Green single speed Kona with black mud guards (Steve McQueen stylee).
Steve McQueen lol. nice one lucas. I need a new bike.
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Post by cha_chaos »

this threads pretty green *nod nod*
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The rubber plant was surprised. If the rubber plant could have spoken, it wouldn't have said anything. That's how surprised the rubber plant was.
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Post by flippo »

so who uses Kleenex toilet paper?

do you use the half flush option? To make up for the fact that you just whipped your ass on trees from our water catchments.

on a related issue, Nippon Paper Japan are currently considering not sourcing their woodchips from Tasmanian Old Growth.

Last month Mitzubishi stoped sourcing from old growth and moved to plantations.

go http://www.np-g.com/e/inquire/form_sonota.html

and put in a quick comment that you will buy fuckloads of paper from them if they completley switch to bluegum plantations ;) (even if you wont buy paper)
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Post by spazz »

Thats quite interesting. Cool shit. Thats what we need better fuel efficient engines. Bring on the electric car engine.

Farkin oil giants. Oh well they WILL run out soon.
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Post by Lephrenic »

^^^^ And on that topic, suburbia has no future. Bring on New Urbanism.
http://www.newurbanism.org/pages/416429/index.htm
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Post by flippo »

Special Hegg wrote:^^^^ And on that topic, suburbia has no future. Bring on New Urbanism.
http://www.newurbanism.org/pages/416429/index.htm
oldschool! ;)
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Post by Lephrenic »

New Urbanism is the new Urbanism.
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Post by mrj »

Go bikes.

Bikes rule and so do bike people. I have three

an oldish LTS with Judy XC's and the first set of V brakes that came out, and a pair of cool Tioga (no the old Jonny T ones though) tires with ripped sidewalls that I refuse to replace cos they dont make those tires anymore

Avanti Roadbike

Chrome Full Suspension Low Rider with vanity mirrors and the coolest bell EVER.
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Post by flippo »

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Post by same o »

well i know to much bout this shit.. my dad is an energy efficient architect slash consultant... he is a fucken corporate hippy
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Post by mrj »

He's climbing in your windows, he's snatching your people up.
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Post by factory worker »

In my old home town we had green bikes, free for use. they got nicked and stuff cause there wasn't enuff of them at once. generally a good idea, reduces bike theft as well.
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Post by flippo »

looks like Bracks is going ahead to give Hazlewood power station the rights to enough coal to keep running till 2031. This is the most greenhouse polluting coal power station in the industrialised world. It's a carbon spewing dinosuar. Deal is being finalised on monday at treasury place. Cunts.
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Post by flippo »

oh and there is a protest between 8:30 and 10:30 am outside Treasury Place on monday, if you're in the area and wanna up numbers.
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Post by mrj »

flippo wrote:looks like Bracks is going ahead to give Hazlewood power station the rights to enough coal to keep running till 2031. This is the most greenhouse polluting coal power station in the industrialised world. It's a carbon spewing dinosuar. Deal is being finalised on monday at treasury place. Cunts.
that's actually not true

Loy Yang Power B station (4 x 500) is the most polluting.

Its the largest power station in the southern hemisphere and the largest carbon spewing dinosaur in the SH also.

Hazelwood is only 4 x 250
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Post by flippo »

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Post by mrj »

mrj wrote:
flippo wrote:looks like Bracks is going ahead to give Hazlewood power station the rights to enough coal to keep running till 2031. This is the most greenhouse polluting coal power station in the industrialised world. It's a carbon spewing dinosuar. Deal is being finalised on monday at treasury place. Cunts.
that's actually not true

Loy Yang Power B station (4 x 500) is the most polluting.

Its the largest power station in the southern hemisphere and the largest carbon spewing dinosaur in the SH also.

Hazelwood is only 4 x 250

The really shocking thing is that power station is 8km from the house I grew up in (door to door)

lets just say I'm pretty sure we have our own ozone hole (which is just as well because we have a pool :lol: )
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Post by flippo »

either way tho, still not good progress if she goes ahead. :(
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Post by mrj »

hhhhhhhmmmmm compelling argument

all I would say is this

you can see Hazelwood from the hosue I grew up in and I worked at Loy Yang B power station for 2 years (3rd generation to work at Latrobe Valley Power stations)

I do remember seeing figures on Co2 output and I'm fairly certain it was beyond the 1.58 from Hazelwood.

and you don't really need to measure it, all you gotta do is look at the fucking sky above the 2 power stations to know which is the more polluting.

but I don't have data to back me up so you win :smt012
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Post by flippo »

interesting. What did thy have you doing there? Did you come home covered in soot like an 'ard cunt? :)
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Post by mrj »

was working in human resources in a quasi mangement reoprting/data analyst/oh&s capactiy

the oh&s out there is REAL oh&s, they are so many things that can kill you very quickly without you even realising.

at some factories a small pipe leak is a small pipe leak, at this place an undetected small pipe leak has the potential to cut a man in two (thankfully the noise generated by such leaks is enormous)

A couple of times I did come home covered in soot like an ard 'unt, in the times I went into the coal bunker that is. day is night in there the air is so heavy with coal dust. that was very rarely I went in there though

its a really different world, the scale of everything is huuuuuugggeee

good fun though and good experience. of course the fact that the industry is killing the planet was enough to make we want to avoid a career there.
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Post by Lephrenic »

Interesting conference on climate change.

http://www.greenhouse2005.com/
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Post by SoulWhiteMan »

Image

BP is going greener.....
look, their logo is a sun now.....
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Post by Lephrenic »

Well, they won't have much choice before long. It's got everything to do with Peak Oil and zero to do with saving the environment.
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Post by SoulWhiteMan »

aparantly they are looking at alternatives even as we speak: look out for ethyl-alchohol powered cars (from sugarcane oil) like was used in WW2
and all I have to say is: turbo diesel: i have a feeling manufacturers will go this way to make sure a market still exists for powerful
cars.
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Post by Lephrenic »

I don't see ethanol cars ever replacing petrol cars. To grow enough corn to produce sufficient ethanol to meet world demand, we'd pretty much have to stop growing food altogether.

Put simply, there is currently no combination of alternative energy sources that could ever satisfy our present rate of consumption. Even if we switched to nuclear, we'd be out of uranium in 20 years and back in the same boat.

I'm all for developments in renewables and energy efficient design, etc, but pretty soon we're gonna have to learn to use less energy because fossil fuels will not be affordable. Right now it would take nothing less than a miracle to discover a sufficient energy source and get it online before our economy collapses.
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Post by mrj »

Special Hegg wrote:I don't see ethanol cars ever replacing petrol cars. To grow enough corn to produce sufficient ethanol to meet world demand, we'd pretty much have to stop growing food altogether.

Put simply, there is currently no combination of alternative energy sources that could ever satisfy our present rate of consumption. Even if we switched to nuclear, we'd be out of uranium in 20 years and back in the same boat.

I'm all for developments in renewables and energy efficient design, etc, but pretty soon we're gonna have to learn to use less energy because fossil fuels will not be affordable. Right now it would take nothing less than a miracle to discover a sufficient energy source and get it online before our economy collapses.
:script:

and my guess is that will come sooner than expected.
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Post by Lephrenic »

Holiday in New Orleans, anyone?
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Post by sneaky hands »

Cities told to change their ways
By Nassim Khadem
Canberra
September 13, 2005

AUSTRALIAN cities are severely congested, in danger of running out of water and rapidly consuming the nation's limited energy sources, according to a parliamentary report painting a bleak picture of Australia's future.

The Sustainable Cities report called for a national body and charter to set and monitor new policies to deal with the challenges.

The charter would set national targets in water, transport, energy, building design and planning, and the proposed Australian Sustainability Commission would provide incentive payments to states and territories that met targets.

The report provides 32 recommendations, including reviewing fringe benefit tax concessions for car use and introducing a tariff on four-wheel drives.

The report, released yesterday, also suggests increasing the first home owner grant to $10,000 for homes that meet sustainability criteria, and for states and territories without a five-star rating for homes to implement it as a priority.

Advertisement
AdvertisementThe report says Australia's greenhouse gas emissions are 27 tonnes for every person every year and, like our water consumption at 1540 kilolitres a head, are the world's highest.

"These environmental statistics paint a bleak picture of the effects of unsustainable practices," the report said.

"Combined with an increasing population size, and the increasing concentration of population in urban and coastal areas, the case for action on sustainable cities becomes more urgent."

The report said that Australians are getting fatter, with obesity costing the economy somewhere between $680 million and $1.2 billion a year. More than half of all adults were considered overweight or obese in 1995 — second only to the levels in the United States.

The report said Australian cities had been largely designed around cars, resulting in urban sprawl, smog and air pollution.

It said funding for urban rail transport was lacking, and flagged a congestion tax similar to London's as a possible solution — but called for more money for public transport.

The report also recommended developing emission standards for older vehicles.

The report said water management was critical — and the only answer was to turn to recyclable water.

The report, by a lower house committee, also noted that Australia's reliance on fossil fuel-based energy was unsustainable.

Environment groups, Labor and the Greens welcomed the report.

"This report is a breath of fresh air," said the Australian Conservation Foundation's executive director Don Henry.

Greens senator Bob Brown said the report was an indictment of the Government's failure to tackle climate change.

Labor environment spokesman Anthony Albanese said the report demonstrated that the Federal Government had neglected cities.

Environment Minister Ian Campbell said he would consider the recommendations.

URBAN RENEWAL
- Review fringe benefits tax breaks on company cars.
- Raise the tariff on non-farm four-wheel-drive vehicles.
- Raise the first home buyers' grant to $10,000 for eco-friendly houses.
- Increase federal money for public transport, light rail and bicycle paths.
- Set national targets for water and energy consumption.
- Double the rebate for installing solar power panels.
sneaky flow like cash flow
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Post by sneaky hands »

anyone got any other suggestions?
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Post by flippo »

- Raise the first home buyers' grant to $10,000 for eco-friendly houses.

I like that. Got some mate who have some awesome eco friendly homes. I miss my mudbrick and grass roof shanty.

I think education is the main problem. Alot of people just dont care anymore. It used to be 'trendy' to care about the environment, but people just get so annoyed even hearing about it these days. It's like a comedown or something. I find anyway.
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Post by Lindemon »

sAme'0 wrote:well i know to much bout this shit.. my dad is an energy efficient architect slash consultant... he is a fucken corporate hippy
That's a bit of an oxymoron isn't it? My dad told me how to make crack...
True story! He came home from the pub 1 night & myself & some friends were enjoying some 'Fenton special blend', (BTW- My dad will talk to a brick wall after a few beers..) & my friend made some comment about how something was 'on crack', meaning that it sucked, so my dad proceeded to give us all detailed instructions on how to make crack. " Ya git tha Baking Soda...." that was funny shit!
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Post by flippo »

Swedish Press, December 2005

Minister for Sustainable Development Mona Sahlin has declared that Sweden is going to become the first country in the world to break the dependence on fossil energy. Sweden will stop using oil by 2020 and eventually the energy supply of the country will be based on renewable energy only. The goal is to gradually rid the country of gasoline-run cars and oil-heated homes.

This is going to be achieved through tax discounts, more efficiency in energy and by large-scale investments in renewable energy and in research. Already next year there will be tax incentives for single family homeowners to switch from oil to renewable energy to heat their homes. Such financial incentives are already available to libraries, aquatic facilities nd hospitals that want to switch to more efficient renewable energy. The expansion of distant heating continues to be an important tool in this process. The Swedish government also wants to make environmental cars more affordable. One of the ways it is doing this is by not subjecting fuel that is free of carbon dioxide to the energy tax or 10 the carbon dioxide emission tax. Environmental cars will also not have to pay the congestion tax that will be introduced in Stockholmin January and many municipalities allow free parking for such cars.

Swedish industry and the economy as a whole are already benefiting from a lower dependency on oil in an international comparison. Since 1994 the use of oil in residences and in the service sector has dropped by 15.2 TWH. The consumption of oil in industries has remained at the same level since that year, even though industrial production has increased by 70 percent. A growing number of households make use of the advantages of distant heating as well as of pellets.

Minister Sahlin's latest statement on the abolition of oil in 2020 is actually just a confirmation of a goal set a long time ago. Swedenhas been a pioneer in the environmental field and has introduced many innovative measures through the years to achieve its goals.

Already in 1990 Swedes implemented a "green tax shift". Taxes on energy and on carbon dioxide emissions were raised, while other taxes, such as those on payroll were decreased by an equivalent amount.

Sweden also invested heavily in its cities and towns. Municipalities receive grants to conduct long-term climate research and make investments in environment-friendly technology. Not only has this helped cut local pollution, it has also raised the level of public awareness of environmental issues.

In 1999 a unanimous national goal was established for all the country's major environmental problems to be solved within one generation, by the year 2020. The Swedish Parliament gave unanimous approval to 15 national targets including a phasing out of all use of hazardous chemicals by 2020; ensuring that all lakes and watercourses arc ecologically sustainable, their habitats and ecological and water-conserving function preserved; providing a safe and sustainable supply of drinking water and contributing to viable habitats for flora and fauna; pro-lection of the value of forests for biological production, while biological diversity, cultural heritage and recreational assets are safeguarded, and a healthy living environment to be provided by cities and towns where buildings and amenities must be located and designed with sound environmental principles.

There are interim objectives for each target, regional and local objectives to match, and an Environmental Objectives Council to monitor progress towards the goals. Progress is charted through 70 national indicators, which track results and verify whether the country is heading in the right direction.

w000T!
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Catalyst on Peak Oil

Post by Lephrenic »

Catalyst: Real Oil Crisis

Windows Media - http://www.abc.net.au/science/broadband ... sis_hi.asx

24 November 2005
What would happen if the world were to start running out of oil? Conventional wisdom says we’ve got 30 years, but there’s a growing fear amongst petroleum experts it’s happening much sooner than we thought – that we are hitting the beginning of the end of oil now. So how soon will the oil run out, and can we stop our economy collapsing when it does? How prepared are we for the real oil crisis?

Or read the transcript here
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Post by Polecat »

flippo wrote:- Raise the first home buyers' grant to $10,000 for eco-friendly houses.
This may be a great idea if the eco-friendly rules are cognisant of different climates within Australia having different requirements. I think it is shit that the new-energy efficient housing rules may pose the end of Queenslander houses when they were designed to fit the Qld climate.
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Post by flippo »

http://interface.audiovideoweb.com/lnk/ ... v/play.asx

youd think it was a fucking satire....
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Post by Zero Hour »

Computer waste summary sheet
Computer facts


Each year 750,000 computers are sold in Victoria (3 million Australia-wide).

560,000 computers in Victoria are redundant each year. Three out of four used computers in Australia are dumped in landfill or stockpiled.

182,875 are dumped in landfill each year in Victoria (731,500 in Australia).

In 10 years 1.77 million computers will be redundant each year.

The ACT is the only place that bans computer waste to landfill.

In five years, 30 countries will have take-back laws for electronics (Australia has no law).

Making one desktop computer and monitor uses the same amount of chemicals (22kg), water (1500kg) and fossil fuels (240kg) as a mid-size car.

The biggest computer users are small and medium businesses (28%); followed by large corporates (23%); government (18%); households (17%) and education (14%).

In just over a decade, the number of personal computers worldwide increased fivefold—from 105 million in 1988 to more than half a billion in 2002.

A typical computer monitor contains lead, barium and hexavalent chromium. Other toxic ingredients include cadmium in chip resistors and semiconductors, beryllium on motherboards and connectors, and brominated flame retardants in plastic casings. 70% of lead, cadmium and mercury in landfill comes from electronic waste.
http://www.envict.org.au/inform.php?men ... 2&item=905 ....cause I couldnt find my uni material on this issue.
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Post by C.I.A. »

Stoked to be working for a company that totally promotes sustainable living. Because most of our work involves getting multinational companies to 'think green', everyone in the office is aware of their ecological footprint. People who use sustainable forms of transport get bonuses in their salaries (massive discounts on yearly metcards that can be salary sacraficed, salary bonuses for people who bike to work). Nothing but 90% recycled, unchlorinated paper. Recycling stations everywhere. Automatic light cut-out when no-one is in the room, blah blah blah.

I guess that cleaning up industrial waste from the past kind of pushes the point home for most of us. Decomissioned plastics factories, industrial sludge from petrochemical waste, cadmium leachate. It is hard to go home after cleaning this crap up and realise that most people are more comfortable with their heads in the sand.

Even if people are more comfortable with ignorance, the warning signs can't be ignored for much longer, and I'll admit that I don't mind exorbitant fuel costs, even if it means I have to pay more for my groceries. We will reach critical mass in the not-too-distant future.
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Post by deviant »

My work is moving into the worlds greenest office building in a few months. Either it's true or it's more City Of Melbourne "Look at us" :roll:
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