Armageddon outta here

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:22 pm

okay that one was a bit stooopid

heres another

Armageddon Outta Here

Okay so some of you have been glued to the internet news live streaming and know whats going on, and others are busy working and havenâ€™t any clue about the state of demise the world is currently in.
Let me fill you in,
Weve had two of the biggest natural disasters that the world has ever seen in the space of one year. The first one wiped out a good chunk of the Asian population and the next has basically brought to light the disintegration of society in the worlds biggest super power the good ol US of A.
Now there is also big wars goin on, the weather is absolutely fucked worldwide, and if nothing else a time will come when the world grinds to halt merely because there is no juice left to run it.
Im sure I donâ€™t need to convince you all of this, but just let me say that the time has come to think about your little chunk of the world and how you might survive it.

Heres some of the factors weve all noticed in a nice scary list for you
- global rising temperatures
- loss of communications
- cities crazy and dying
- limited fresh water
- congested roads
- rising ocean levels/tidal waves
- military restrictions
- limited or no fuel
- packs of wild dogs

SO
Some of us have been talking, and we think it might be a good idea to actually talk some more about all this, rather than living in our own little worlds and fearing possibilities that may never come.
Just say the world did end tomorrow, and we all had to flee the cities, wouldnâ€™t it be good to know that ten or thirty other people are prepared for that and will meet you somewhere that you have all ascertained before hand?
And even if this never happens, wouldnâ€™t it feel good to know that theres a gang you can count on if the shit DOES hit the fan, as we plod along and hope the inevtitable doesnâ€™t happen?

I see the benefits as these
-be aware of the possibilties
-know we have a plan a,b,c
-build trust and communicate about important shit
-be prepared for something!

Heres some factors we came up with:
-locations for evacuation (topographical maps)
-resources supplies tools needed
-stockpiling?
-meetings to discuss this stuff and touch base with whats going on in the world and with each otherâ€¦
-skills of different people
-transport
-land?

advocatus_diaboli · Post by **advocatus_diaboli** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:18 pm

"I froze your tears and made a dagger,
and stabbed it in my cock forever.
It stays there like Excalibur,
Are you my Arthur?
Say you are.

Take this cool dark steeled blade,
Steal it, sheath it, in your lake.
I'd drown with you to be together.
Must you breathe? Cos I need Heaven."

mecka · Post by **mecka** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:31 pm

"I like chicken
I like liver
Meow mix
Meow mix
Please deliver"

Mellogs · Post by **Mellogs** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:22 am

bahahah, chicken liver. hahah

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:05 pm

chicken liver is fine, as long as it comes in cans

DBoy · Post by **DBoy** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:14 pm

http://www.woodlandsurvivalcrafts.com/s ... es/faq.php

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:22 pm

heheheh this is better!

http://www.72hours.org/

The Antichrist · Post by **The Antichrist** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:32 pm

HahahaaaaaarrrrRRRRRrrrr. I am here

You can run. But you can't hide. Unless you are a ninja.

but seriously, folks, surviving armageddon is simple.

Just pack a handy-dandy kit with that contains the following things, and come-what-may, you will be just fine;

1. A packet of coloured pipe-cleaners
2. An ordinary bottle of house-hold bleach
3. 20 m of Aluminium foil (preferably Multix)
4. The earth's gravitational pull
5. MacGyver

My suggestion for a super-dooper survival kit contains all of the above, plus any one of the three selections below;

I. Vin Diesel
II. Chuck Norris
III. A nuclear generator, a team of ninjas, some nuclear scientists (evil:good ratio 1:5), some weapons engineers, a steel mill, four boilermakers (don't know what a boilermaker does, but they sound interesting, and you could get the chance to finally find out), some brain-dead minions (45-75), several hectares of bio-dynamic agricultural land and a castle surrounded by a moat that is stocked with pirhanas, sharks and ninjas.

And a sexually attractive member of the sex that you are attracted to. Oh, and one of the opposite sex (to ensure propogation of your obviously superiour gene line).

That is all.

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:50 pm

The Antichrist wrote:III. A nuclear generator, a team of ninjas, some nuclear scientists (evil:good ratio 1:5), some weapons engineers, a steel mill, four boilermakers (don't know what a boilermaker does, but they sound interesting, and you could get the chance to finally find out), some brain-dead minions (45-75), several hectares of bio-dynamic agricultural land and a castle surrounded by a moat that is stocked with pirhanas, sharks and ninjas.

the brain dead minions, should they be mixed race or aryan??

Lephrenic · Post by **Lephrenic** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:41 pm

Hehe... good to see y'all take survival so seriously.

To get the thread back on topic, I believe the biggest thing facing the world in the near future is Peak Oil, and you really can't run anywhere to escape it.

To summarise, no more oil and gas means no more cars, trucks or commercial aviation. It also means no more fertiliser, which means food shortages. No more trucking would also mean said food would have trouble getting from farms to warehouse to supermarkets, let alone to your home.

Alternative fuels have a place but really only a small one. Solar, wind, hydroelectricity etc can never come close to meeting our current (to say nothing of our rising population's future) demand. Uranium supplies would run out pretty fast if it became the prime source (god forbid). And hydrogen engines are a battery, not an energy source. We can't possibly grow enough biomass to produce the amount of ethanol we'll need. Forget about hydrogen.

Essentially the only solution is to learn to live with less energy.

There are ways around all these hurdles, but who is doing anything to prepare? Well, governments are preparing but only in ways that protect their interests; securing the public's welfare is not high on their priorities, though you'd know this already if you've been paying attention. The battles over what's left are being fought NOW because the timing is crucial. That's why there's a War on Iraq, that's why Bush hates Venuzuela's president and that's why we're stealing East Timor's oil and gas. They know what's coming and they want to come out on top when the shit hits the fan.

So don't expect government to help you. In the end, your family, your friends and your local community is all you have. My advice for the coming years is learn more about self-sufficiency, and in the meantime:

- shop local
- bank local
- ride a bike
- get to know your neighbours better (you'd want them on your side when a crisis hit, wouldn't you?)

Have a nice day.

DBoy · Post by **DBoy** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:53 pm

We have and will continue to do so, INVENTED OUT OF NECESSITY.

I have no double that this will be an issue, but an issue that we overcome. I am not coping out, but just making an assumption. She'll be right.

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:53 pm

Special Hegg wrote:Hehe... good to see y'all take survival so seriously.

So don't expect government to help you. In the end, your family, your friends and your local community is all you have..

um, i actually do.

this document has been sent to a few of my friends we have had discussions about possible outcomes/things that could happen and what we would do if they did.

people in the circle have houses at the beach, and if thetide rises, we have a place in the hills....of course, nuclear war falout and many other things could render all plans useless...but were talknig about it, were sharing ideas, were offering resources to each other.

if the world stopped tommorrow i know what id grab and where id head.

so, yes, i do take it serioulsy, even if it is my love if conspiracies/possibilities that makes me think this way.

Lephrenic · Post by **Lephrenic** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:58 pm

I know you take it seriously, Bo. It's the rest of the board I'm talking about.

Anyhoo, I just thought I'd mention Peak Oil because it's less in the realm of 'what if' than earthquakes and such (though these are all worthy topics). It's definitely coming, a lot sooner than people think.

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:09 pm

I think the issue is a serious one, but I personally don't take it that seriously. I mean, sure I can (and do) try to reduce energy usage at all times.

I think not just "she'll be right" but "what will be will be", planning on fleeing to the hills is a little bit ridiculous IMO.

Lephrenic · Post by **Lephrenic** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:13 pm

There could be some competition over who owns them hills.

But these are things we will face in our lifetime, so the question everyone should ask themselves is 'will you be ready?'

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:23 pm

deviant wrote:I think not just "she'll be right" but "what will be will be", planning on fleeing to the hills is a little bit ridiculous IMO.

im not planning on fleeing...
i have a great house, studio ful of shit, a cat i feed everynight and a job.

but hegg is right > will you be ready??

i have friends who are seriuosly stockpiling cans of food... now while i think thats a little extreme, if the food runs out theyll be the ones laughing...
weve talked about storing petrol but it will corrode in time...

there was a great french movine on a while ago about the situation that could occur if only three major oil refinarys were bombed/destroyed...
the market prioce of oil went through the roof, to the point where two weeks in, it was off the market completely.

and as you can guess, that small thing was the beginnnig of the edn of the 'civilised world'

thats what will happen, probably not nuclear fallout, but no power, no gas, none of the things we rely on...so hegg is right, the better we learn not to rely on these resourtces, the better prepared well be to run to the hills if nessecary!!!

mrj · Post by **mrj** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:24 pm

I've often thought about this a lot. Exactly what would I do if society crumbled.

And the answer is this

- Get a gun and plenty of ammo
- Head for them there hills

Thats pretty much it.

sneaky hands · Post by **sneaky hands** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:28 pm

I think the tension between the political risk of making the hard decisions, and the risk to humankind if we dont, is probably the biggest issue facing us.

business and governments just dont have the balls to fundamentally change the way things work with regards to water and energy. it might end up costing us everything.

a large part of china is already fucked - most of the water has dried up, and what is left is poisonous. other countries face the same situation.

i dont think we need to worry about an apocalypse in terms of some kind of cataclysm, more slow starvation and emergence of disease and pestilence as the environment breaks down and no longer supports us. you wont be running for the hills, youll be fighting for your life over clean water and scraps of uncontaminated food. Humans and other life forms may evolve and adapt but it will be ugly.

of course, even if we get the environment thing right, economically we're headed for tough times as the population ages - soon every 1 person in full time work will be supporting 2 retirees. when we're paying 75% tax we'll look back on these golden days and wonder why we squandered the wealth we had.

imo its a shit time to be alive - only thing to do is try to enjoy it as much as possible right now, be responsible and if you are in a position of power, attempt to influence policy in a positive way.

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:36 pm

It occurred to me just yesterday how out of control "society" actually is. No one really has a handle on exactly how it works the way it does. We are powerless to stop it even though it is made up of "us". Even the people making the descisions and leading the charge have no idea. Although in theory the concepts are simple, in practice "society" is a very comlex animal indeed.

We have been born into the society and have learned our habits and survival tactics (or lack thereof) within the constrains of our "place" within the society.

If society started to fall appart I doubt it would take long to be completely destroyed. Just look at war torn countries and the way the general society is shadowed, hindered and generally weak as a result of the violence and anarchy that insues. Doesn't take much

Why concern yourself with the issue? It may or may not occur in your lifetime. Preparation (I'm affraid) is pretty much futile as you never know what the circumstances may be.... bush survival may be completely useless if the flora/fauna is poisoned or the water has dried up (for example).. stock piling food might be ok if you have a gun to protect yourself and your stash of food.

I dunno, choas-order-chaos-order (ad nauseum) is the way the universe works..... no big deal

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:39 pm

deviant wrote:Why concern yourself with the issue? It may or may not occur in your lifetime. Preparation (I'm affraid) is pretty much futile as you never know what the circumstances may be....
I dunno, choas-order-chaos-order (ad nauseum) is the way the universe works..... no big deal

no biggie eh? hehehehe

wouldnt you agree that awareness is part of being prepared though...
maybe your kids or their kids will need to know what to do...
???????????????

i dunno, call me paraniod, but anything is possible innit?

sneaky hands · Post by **sneaky hands** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:43 pm

i dunno GK, if it gets to the point...

is survival worth it? If you could survive with a small band of other humans on a doomed planet, fighting off mutants and pathogens..whats the point?

anyone read Z for Zachariah? childish book but interesting concept - one person left alive on the planet type deal.

Lephrenic · Post by **Lephrenic** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:44 pm

Sorry, my earlier post was a bit flippant.

In fact, the civil war scenario is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. And I believe we can avoid it, we just have to start thinking about it now.

It does scare me to think how people who have never gone hungry will react when the unthinkable happens to them. But if we faced our fears and looked closer at our local area, we may find we won't need to run anywhere.

I remain an optimist (this is not the same as ignoring the issue). So here's two positive examples.

Cuba has had to reshape itself over the last ten years due to lack of fossil fuels but has come out as a shining model of self-sufficiency. I've posted this article before, but it's worth another look. The power of Community: How Cuba survived Peak Oil

And a community in the US that's not facing such hardship yet but knows what's coming. Learning To Localize

sneaky hands · Post by **sneaky hands** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:45 pm

Special Hegg wrote:i remain an optimist (this is not the same as ignoring the issue).

without people being optimistic we really are fucked. cool examples

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:47 pm

ghetto kitty wrote:i dunno, call me paraniod, but anything is possible innit?

exactly

anything IS possible. You are not paranoid.

How is it that you can prepare for "anything"??

on the awareness note.... I totally agree that it pays to be aware, which is all you can do. THE most single important thing (for me) is to realise the truth, take resposibility for the knowledge of that truth and act accordingly. The one thing people forget is that each and every human being on the planet is wholly and soley responsible for being a part of the societal enviro-destoying, resource-hungry machine. FACT.

You can run but you can't hide.... it is our (meaning yours and my) fault we are in this situation. Accept, acknowledge, go about your day in the best way you can. That is all.

ArrBee · Post by **ArrBee** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:34 pm

Special Hegg wrote: - shop local

That's where you can buy the precious things

This is a local shop, for local people.
There's nothing for you here!

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:01 pm

sneaky hands wrote:i dunno GK, if it gets to the point...

is survival worth it? If you could survive with a small band of other humans on a doomed planet, fighting off mutants and pathogens..whats the point?
.

dude.

that sounds like fun to me...better than normal exsistence!!!

but thats just me...

mrj · Post by **mrj** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:12 pm

sneaky hands wrote: anyone read Z for Zachariah? childish book but interesting concept - one person left alive on the planet type deal.

They made us read that book at school.

Will my doomed C+ book report end up being the very key to my survival when the pestilent mutants come to eat my skin.

Only time will tell.

Or possibly my year 8 English teacher. I think she is available for consulitng work if anyone esle wants to learn how to survive the aftermath of the apocalypse, or high school, or both, or even both at the same time. Although it can be difficult to attend class when one has to dance across a lake of fire in the valley of the shadow of death. But if you listen to Coolio you should be fine, cos his song helped a whole bunch of teen misfits survive being in a movie with Michelle Pfeiffer (shudders).

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:16 pm

sneaky hands wrote:whats the point?

that's just it isn't it.... nobody knows the point or reason for existance.

I am however optimistic about the future for some strange reason

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:21 pm

i am too...

with a healthy dose of realism in there too.....

i dont think our ultimate demise is absolutely nessecary to 'teach us a lesson'...i do have some hope for the humans ability for foresight...

so deviant > youll be jumpin on my back when i flee then??

oh ghettoooooo take me where itss saaaaafffffeeeeee

heheheh

mrj · Post by **mrj** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:22 pm

ghetto kitty wrote:but anything is possible innit?

No.

It is not possible to eat spaghetti bolognese at a fancy resteraunt whilst wearing a white shirt and NOT get some on your chest.

Nor is it possible to travel back in time and teach native americans how to clock Halo on the hardest setting. I tried. When I got there someone convinced them to go back to platform games, and Chief Burning Thumbs told me they were completley over first person shooters.

It is also impossible to watch anything with Calista Flockhart without then flying to LA and tracking down Harrison Ford to yell at him "What the fuck man. You used to be my HERO! You had a pet wookie and everything. Why have you thrown it all away for the super small size Ally McBeal Meal Deal. You fuck!"

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:23 pm

mrj....

someone, somwhere can do those things...

i bet you.

mecka · Post by **mecka** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:25 pm

gerbil shirt.

sneaky hands · Post by **sneaky hands** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:26 pm

deviant wrote:that's just it isn't it.... nobody knows the point or reason for existance.

i dont think there is a point. in universal terms, the planet earth is in existence for the blink of an eye. the human race barely registers.
perhaps (although i doubt we'll ever know for sure) our uniqueness (intelligence) makes us an oddity to some extent.

as for the choice between barely surviving in a brutal war for resources where there is no hope of any improvement ever, then dying - or death .. well i know which one id choose.

oh and mrj - the native americans are all totally addicted to WoW, platformers are so 1992

mrj · Post by **mrj** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:27 pm

sneaky hands wrote:
deviant wrote:that's just it isn't it.... nobody knows the point or reason for existance.

i dont think there is a point. in universal terms, the planet earth is in existence for the blink of an eye. the human race barely registers.
perhaps (although i doubt we'll ever know for sure) our uniqueness (intelligence) makes us an oddity to some extent.

as for the choice between barely surviving in a brutal war for resources where there is no hope of any improvement ever, then dying - or death .. well i know which one id choose.

Lavender?

sneaky hands · Post by **sneaky hands** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:29 pm

mrj wrote: Lavender?

pot pourri

mrj · Post by **mrj** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:30 pm

sneaky hands wrote:
mrj wrote: Lavender?
pot pourri

Blast. You upped my hopes then dashed them all at once.

C.I.A. · Post by **C.I.A.** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:47 pm

ArrBee wrote:
Special Hegg wrote: - shop local

That's where you can buy the precious things

This is a local shop, for local people.
There's nothing for you here!

Excellent, Tubbs.

We haven't sold a thing.

Ok. Have to throw in my 2 cents.

Most arguments on this thread are (quite naturally) anthropocentric in nature, but IMO the very things that have permitted, to this point, the dominance of Homo sapiens on this planet (the ability to engineer their immediate environment plus the primal desire to aquire possesions that represent status and promote the likelihood of passing on their genes to the next generation) will be the thing that messes us up.

As an environmental scientist/engineer, I see and try to remediate the results of our actions every day, and the selfishness of humanity depresses the fuck out of me and will be our downfall (at least for society as we know it). I, personally, cannot wait for fossil fuels to run out. I also am hanging for a deadly pathogen (but, knowing the evolution of viruses, this is less likely than a nuclear war at this stage). If I don't die from one of these things, I'll die over in china from PCB or dioxin inhalation while I'm trying to remediate their land (which is fucked up because western countries outsource to cheaper areas that have lax environmental protection laws).

At the coalface of environmental protection and remediation, the outlook isn't pretty.

Call me old, bitter and twisted, but I really don't want to participate in the salvation of such a "successful" species. The supposed green utopia we are all lookin for will occur after we, as a species, are all but gone.

We are too clever for our own good, and too selfish to function as the hymenopteran communities do (vis. the ants bees and wasps, who also lack altrusim because of their haplo-diploid inheritance mechanism).

Everyone sits around and pontificates, but can anyone who has strong opinions pro the planet and up-and-coming armageddon say that they are making a serious attempt to reduce their global footprint??

(Just a question, not an accusation, folks)

sneaky hands · Post by **sneaky hands** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 pm

i agree with everything you wrote CIA.

i am making the serious attempt you mention.

DBoy · Post by **DBoy** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:53 pm

Maybe that is the only true ultralistic outlook a human can have: I'd prefer we die of for the good of the rest of stuff.

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:57 pm

C.I.A. wrote:Everyone sits around and pontificates, but can anyone who has strong opinions pro the planet and up-and-coming armageddon say that they are making a serious attempt to reduce their global footprint??

(Just a question, not an accusation, folks)

i agree....and most it is safe to say, are not...

hey, im happy to go the way of the dinosaurs if it means that a new race of something gets a chance......

but dammnit, id like to go out in a more exciting mad max kinda way than just fighting for the last loaf of bread at safeway...

Lizkins · Post by **Lizkins** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:10 pm

i reckon its the ants turn next, no really, they are gonna rule the world. crazy little fuckers them ants.

humans are so full of themselves for thinking we can survive anything...pllleeaaasseee.

Will · Post by **Will** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:48 pm

It's a shame really.

It'd be so cool if we could get over all this you/me/us/them bullshit, become utterly self-sustaining and immortal and explore the galaxy and the mind's potential.

And we would, given time.

But it seriously doesn't look like we're going to have much more time.

flippo · Post by **flippo** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:51 pm

i've said it before and I will say it again, the robots that the dolphins build will blow up the sun.

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:34 pm

Will wrote:It's a shame really.

It'd be so cool if we could get over all this you/me/us/them bullshit, become utterly self-sustaining and immortal and explore the galaxy and the mind's potential.

as long as it exsists in your dreams then it exsists..... believe, trust

Lephrenic · Post by **Lephrenic** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:00 am

Sorry CIA, I can't share your viewpoint. To talk about the behaviour of human beings as a species in this way ignores the ways of societies other than our own. There have been many cultures that have lived in harmony with nature and are not so concerned with wealth and individual liberty as we, the white middle class.

deviant wrote:as long as it exists in your dreams then it exists..... believe, trust

x infinity
Imagination is what separates us from most other animals, thus we are mainly held back by our individual lack of imagination. And it seems like we're all doing everything except simply imagining what we want for the future and start mapping out what steps are needed to make it a reality. I'd stress again the importance of community and that each of us pooling resources (such as ideas) is a valuable thing. So keep 'em coming guys.

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:08 am

flippo wrote:i've said it before and I will say it again, the robots that the dolphins build will blow up the sun.

gold

C.I.A. · Post by **C.I.A.** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:51 am

Special Hegg wrote:Sorry CIA, I can't share your viewpoint. To talk about the behaviour of human beings as a species in this way ignores the ways of societies other than our own. There have been many cultures that have lived in harmony with nature and are not so concerned with wealth and individual liberty as we, the white middle class.
deviant wrote:as long as it exists in your dreams then it exists..... believe, trust
x infinity
Imagination is what separates us from most other animals, thus we are mainly held back by our individual lack of imagination. And it seems like we're all doing everything except simply imagining what we want for the future and start mapping out what steps are needed to make it a reality. I'd stress again the importance of community and that each of us pooling resources (such as ideas) is a valuable thing. So keep 'em coming guys.

I'm not ignoring societies that are capable of living with the envirnment at all, Heggsy. Not everyone can be tarred with the same brush. You would, however, have to agree that the prevailing domination of so-called western-society values, and the imposition of these, either willingly or unwillingly on more sustainable cultures is a function of human nature. How could it not be.

Ok. Fuck it. I'm going to start a cult.

Everyone has to wear Nike shoes, and the next comet that swings past is actually a space-ship that will take us to a fresh planet where dragons that can fly and can be tamed are our forms of transport and our best friends.

Also, ants already run the (land-based) bits of this planet. I think that the next species to dominate the planet will be:

(opens envelope)

Rats (almost there with the almost opposable thumbs... keep up the good work guys).

I wonder what future rat archaeologists will make of excavated labs full of dead rats. And rat maze thingies.

Need. Coffee. I'm boring the fuck out of everyone here with my opinions.

Will · Post by **Will** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:54 am

Special Hegg wrote:Sorry CIA, I can't share your viewpoint. To talk about the behaviour of human beings as a species in this way ignores the ways of societies other than our own. There have been many cultures that have lived in harmony with nature and are not so concerned with wealth and individual liberty as we, the white middle class.
deviant wrote:as long as it exists in your dreams then it exists..... believe, trust
x infinity
Imagination is what separates us from most other animals, thus we are mainly held back by our individual lack of imagination. And it seems like we're all doing everything except simply imagining what we want for the future and start mapping out what steps are needed to make it a reality. I'd stress again the importance of community and that each of us pooling resources (such as ideas) is a valuable thing. So keep 'em coming guys.

Fucken A Heggy, you switched on lil bitch. Biggups.

sneaky hands · Post by **sneaky hands** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:56 am

Special Hegg wrote:There have been many cultures that have lived in harmony with nature.

i vehemently disagree with this. this is a myth perpetrated by western cultur'es self-loathing. Humans may have accelerated the process in the past 200 years but the "ancient peoples living in harmony with nature" thing just isnt true.
i posted something in the Thread About Nothing about it. last week.

C.I.A. · Post by **C.I.A.** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:11 am

sneaky hands wrote:
Special Hegg wrote:There have been many cultures that have lived in harmony with nature.
i vehemently disagree with this. this is a myth perpetrated by western cultur'es self-loathing. Humans may have accelerated the process in the past 200 years but the "ancient peoples living in harmony with nature" thing just isnt true.
i posted something in the Thread About Nothing about it. last week.

Well, yeah, I'm with you on that one, but for me that is opening up a whole new box of opinions that some people may find offensive; like knowing just how much Australian Aboriginies changed the landscape & killed off the megafauna, likewise with the Maori people, the people living along the nile killing their early civilisation with irrigation-induced salinity. Preaching to the converted on that one, sneaky.