Your take on digital djing???

aerobiotic · Post by **aerobiotic** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:51 pm

Hi poeple just wondering if I could get your thoughts n qualms on the whole digital DJing thing. I personally like it, I know its doing damage to the record shops but I think its a good progression. Ive been using live for little while now and packed away my vinyl, Saving a shit load of money also! 10 tracks costs me the price of one vinyl...!!!

SoulWhiteMan · Post by **SoulWhiteMan** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:55 pm

for legitimately purchasing tunes, I'm all for it.

Stray · Post by **Stray** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:58 pm

Post by **system** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:01 pm

Buy Serato Skratch - you get the best of both worlds!

(I'm not a fan of Traktor and the like.)

aerobiotic · Post by **aerobiotic** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:10 pm

system wrote:Buy Serato Skratch - you get the best of both worlds!

(I'm not a fan of Traktor and the like.)

I sold my decks a long time ago when I found it too expensive to buy vinyl...

LuKo · Post by **LuKo** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:12 pm

I think i am aboutr to sell my serato , had it soo long now, and am just fed up with rocking up to gigs and dealing with bullshit behind the mixer

pissing other dj's off

its ok when its a 4 hr gig, but anything less and you start to question if its worth it

like an hour on NYE, i ended up taking cd's...

i love it and it does what it says on the tin but when you deal with it in the wee hours of the morning in front of a crowd of people, you feel like a retard and proabbly look liek one too

i will never go back to being poor and spending all my money on vinyl

my advice to anyone looking at this road, look at cdj's instead get real good with them, they are in every club and if they dont its alot easier to plug in 2 cdj's than disable the whole setup to get serato going

a quick look at the buying and selling in many forums tells you alot of people are doing this, alot of people selling up their records

i would too if i didnt plan to sample them at some point

if you are gonna do a sasha and use ableton you better be pushing all sorts of boundaries not just mixing one track and another or i will throw sh*t at you...serious

SoulWhiteMan · Post by **SoulWhiteMan** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:31 pm

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:34 pm

M-Audio Torq Connectiv.....

beatski · Post by **beatski** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:03 pm

its for poofs...hehehe

mrj · Post by **mrj** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:05 pm

Oh dear, not another one of THESE threads.

Its digital all the way now baby. Theres no reason not to.

aerobiotic · Post by **aerobiotic** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:06 pm

LuKo wrote:if you are gonna do a sasha and use ableton you better be pushing all sorts of boundaries not just mixing one track and another or i will throw sh*t at you...serious

I agree with you there, but thats why Sasha is Sasha etc etc... Id love to be pushing boundaries. But thats gunna take some time...

aerobiotic · Post by **aerobiotic** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:09 pm

Actually, pushing the boundarys.... pffft, what do half of melbournes breaks, house, electro etc etc djs do with turntables thats so exiting? Apart from dj's like Scotrod, everyone else just blends a track with another... its the choice of tunes and they way they play them that matters, not what platform you choose to do it! I actually think that djing with ableton is harder than traditional djing with decks, decks are piss easy... What about learning a program from scratch... much harder than pushing play on the turntable and pitching it in sync...

eh, traditionalists......

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:09 pm

Mate I wouldn't go saying decks are piss easy.... there is a reason the best DJ's in the command massive $$$.

Track selection, track progression, beat matching, EQ's, crowd reading, key detecting, knowing your tunes structure etc etc etc.

Sure, there's more to learn in a program, but it's just a time process - as is mastering anything really.

aerobiotic · Post by **aerobiotic** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:52 pm

Direktor wrote: Track selection, track progression, beat matching, EQ's, crowd reading, key detecting, knowing your tunes structure etc etc etc.

Direktor
All those rules also apply to ableton dont they... I mean live might get the tempo at the right speed but you still have to sync the beats, as easy in live as it is with decks!

Dont get me wrong Im not bagging turntables, I love playing on turntables. But the thing is, digital djing has this stigma that all you have to do is press play! If thats true, then with turntables all you have to do is press play also.... which is Not the case at all is it!

My opinion... DJing with turntables IS easy for the most of it. I mean, remember the gigs I played with Beats Working, I didnt even own decks then... Didnt 3 years before those gigs... The only time Id ever play was when I had those gigs cos I didnt have decks.

there is a reason the best DJ's in the command massive $$$

And how many other $$$$$ are using programs such as live...? The dj's who dont, are they scared of being bagged or losing some fame for moving a little bit foward in there aproach towards djing??? I dont know... thats the way I see it.

Scotrod is just about the only breaks dj I enjoy watching because he plays the tunes I like and he can actually use decks and efx, James zabiela also. Hybrid are one of my favorite groups but I was disapointed when they played there set at the summadayze after party, it was boring.

Anyway, sorry if ive stepped on a few toes here and pissed anyone off... Im just expressing my opinion, sorry if that offends.

Ps. Direkt, Decks are PISS EASY!!!! Bog force that mo fo...

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:32 pm

i like both.
sometimes i take vinyl out with me
sometimes i take live

if i play records, i take dubplates. i can't stand cdjs except the numark ones. probably lack of practice on them but ...

if i use live i use midi controllers, play my own tunes and other peoples. as time goes on my sets get more complex (much like happened with djing records). now i recompose my own beats and mash medleys and do three or four track beat mixes, use full tracks, loops, segments, breaks, one hits. when i'm back in my actual house with space and speakers im gonna fully get to know my novation remote SL. use the drum pads and the chaos pad style XY controller. i already feel way more enjoyment out of the flexibility of using live.

with djing beatmixing is the easy part (i think andy c said that) and that is all that ableton will do for you (not really well either, usually you have to fuck around a fair bit) the hard thing is interesting mix composition and keepin shit fresh

but. whatever works for you, i respect and understand purists even if they don't have the professional courtesy to do the same

SoulWhiteMan · Post by **SoulWhiteMan** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:50 pm

aerobiotic wrote:Actually, pushing the boundarys.... pffft, what do half of melbournes breaks, house, electro etc etc djs do with turntables thats so exiting? Apart from dj's like Scotrod, everyone else just blends a track with another... its the choice of tunes and they way they play them that matters, not what platform you choose to do it! I actually think that djing with ableton is harder than traditional djing with decks, decks are piss easy... What about learning a program from scratch... much harder than pushing play on the turntable and pitching it in sync...

eh, traditionalists......

I know what you're saying, to add weight to your argument, big guns like Jono Fernandez and Danny Bonicci use Ableton to play out because they didn't have the time/inclination to learn how to become good spinners (too busy in studio perhaps)

Scratching over breaks is hard thing to do though, and to get a good scratch sound in time/key with a breaks track is tricky and sometimes can deteriorate from the track itself.

I like DJs that know their choons and mix them well, be it good drops or long blends (which I favour most.)

And as for hybrid, yeah, they sucked but they played their own material all day and were on the end of a tour; tired as fuck, and prolly thought : these hos like electro.... we'll play electro, fair play to them, they'd been at summadayze all day long.

aerobiotic · Post by **aerobiotic** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:58 pm

Jono Fernandez and Danny Bonicci, loved there set at the SD afterparty...

Ps. was danni using bluetooth in ear headphones? Do such a thing exist? I didnt see any headphones and he was playing with his ears a bit...

SoulWhiteMan · Post by **SoulWhiteMan** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:00 am

probably, there are infared/bluetooth IN EAR headphones...!

I'm tipping that was what you saw.

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:30 am

aerobiotic wrote: Ps. Direkt, Decks are PISS EASY!!!! Bog force that mo fo...

Nice one mate!

I agree with what you're saying mate... but when you see somone like Andy C tear a room apart via a DJ set, you can see the massive divide from people who may find decks piss-easy to people who use them as an extension of their body.
Same goes for all the turntablists, such as Dexter, Craze etc etc.

Stray · Post by **Stray** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:18 am

Direktor wrote:
aerobiotic wrote: Ps. Direkt, Decks are PISS EASY!!!! Bog force that mo fo...
Nice one mate!

I agree with what you're saying mate... but when you see somone like Andy C tear a room apart via a DJ set, you can see the massive divide from people who may find decks piss-easy to people who use them as an extension of their body.
Same goes for all the turntablists, such as Dexter, Craze etc etc.

Isn't andy c the guy who has all his tunes set to the same bpm?

SoulWhiteMan · Post by **SoulWhiteMan** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:31 am

Stray wrote:
Direktor wrote:
aerobiotic wrote: Ps. Direkt, Decks are PISS EASY!!!! Bog force that mo fo...
Nice one mate!

I agree with what you're saying mate... but when you see somone like Andy C tear a room apart via a DJ set, you can see the massive divide from people who may find decks piss-easy to people who use them as an extension of their body.
Same goes for all the turntablists, such as Dexter, Craze etc etc.
Isn't andy c the guy who has all his tunes set to the same bpm?

rumor has it....

But, direktor is right. There is more to djing than just mixing PARTICULARLY in drum and bass: DJs chop and change in between drum patterns, layer their tunes with one another, swap basslines, drop two of the same tune at once and essentially remix choons on the fly....

And I can scratch...somewhat

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:34 am

Stray wrote:
Direktor wrote:
aerobiotic wrote: Ps. Direkt, Decks are PISS EASY!!!! Bog force that mo fo...
Nice one mate!

I agree with what you're saying mate... but when you see somone like Andy C tear a room apart via a DJ set, you can see the massive divide from people who may find decks piss-easy to people who use them as an extension of their body.
Same goes for all the turntablists, such as Dexter, Craze etc etc.
Isn't andy c the guy who has all his tunes set to the same bpm?

Nah mate, that's how good he is... he has rumours like that floating about. He was asked about that in an interview - all lies, he's just quick and super-tight on the mix.

Bukem on the other hand, uses (as SWM said) different drum patterns on different rec's to create his own fills etc, when he cuts between the 2 records - I love hearing Master Bukem on the cut, he is amazing! Being an ex-drummer may have something to do with it...

aerobiotic · Post by **aerobiotic** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:44 am

SoulWhiteMan wrote:
Stray wrote:
Direktor wrote: Nice one mate!

I agree with what you're saying mate... but when you see somone like Andy C tear a room apart via a DJ set, you can see the massive divide from people who may find decks piss-easy to people who use them as an extension of their body.
Same goes for all the turntablists, such as Dexter, Craze etc etc.
Isn't andy c the guy who has all his tunes set to the same bpm?
rumor has it....

But, direktor is right. There is more to djing than just mixing PARTICULARLY in drum and bass: DJs chop and change in between drum patterns, layer their tunes with one another, swap basslines, drop two of the same tune at once and essentially remix choons on the fly....

And I can scratch...somewhat

Sure, I wouldnt deny the fact that people like Craze, DJ Rectangle, Dexta have skills... But in electronic music (excluding hip hop) most djs arent really all that! Givem a djm 800 and that makes them technical... Yeh right. Sure there is more to DJ'ing than just mixing.... But how many pay'ed electronic DJ's in melbourne do more than just mix...? We need more Phil K's...

Stray · Post by **Stray** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:45 am

I had a feeling it was just a rumour.

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:54 am

aerobiotic wrote:
SoulWhiteMan wrote:
Stray wrote: Isn't andy c the guy who has all his tunes set to the same bpm?
rumor has it....

But, direktor is right. There is more to djing than just mixing PARTICULARLY in drum and bass: DJs chop and change in between drum patterns, layer their tunes with one another, swap basslines, drop two of the same tune at once and essentially remix choons on the fly....

And I can scratch...somewhat
Sure, I wouldnt deny the fact that people like Craze, DJ Rectangle, Dexta have skills... But in electronic music (excluding hip hop) most djs arent really all that! Givem a djm 800 and that makes them technical... Yeh right. Sure there is more to DJ'ing than just mixing.... But how many pay'ed electronic DJ's in melbourne do more than just mix...? We need more Phil K's...

Maybe we just agree to disagree Chieftain. I LOVE watching DJ's play wax mate - not a massive fan of watching them "check their emails". Sure there's more that can be done with Ableton, but does it NEED to be done? If the tunes are badass, and the DJ is a wicked mixer what more do you need other than some visuals, a tidy system and perhaps the odd MC?

I still stand by my statement that (turntablists aside) there's a big difference between O.K DJ's and fucking unbelievable DJ's - and this has nothing to do with Ableton. If you're gonna play live, play LIVE - bring in some hardware and muso's like Reprazent or Pendulum etc... Playing 'live' on a lappie has never gone over well with crowd interaction from my experience, but maybe I haven't been at the right gigs?

Horses for courses though, whatever floats your boat etc...

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:00 pm

don't pendulum write in live nowadays?

i cant see the difference btw ableton with a bunch of controllers and a piece of hardware. and i started on the mpc. i used to be a hardware snob, even took my dr-202 loaded with samples to dj gigs

but i don't get this fucking higher than thou attitude of fuckwit djs.
fuck.
srsly.

i don't see how one way of doing things is inherently better.
they are bits of plastic spinning around.
as long as you do more than push play on any platform then you're doing well by me.
i can think of countless local djs i have seen mix most of their sets in breakdowns
but i wouldn't diss what they do

ps. djs should learn a real instrument

:jaded:

respekt all

aerobiotic · Post by **aerobiotic** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:55 pm

unsoundbwoy wrote: i cant see the difference btw ableton with a bunch of controllers and a piece of hardware. and i started on the mpc. i used to be a hardware snob, even took my dr-202 loaded with samples to dj gigs

but i don't get this fucking higher than thou attitude of fuckwit djs.
fuck.
srsly.

i don't see how one way of doing things is inherently better.
they are bits of plastic spinning around.
as long as you do more than push play on any platform then you're doing well by me.
i can think of countless local djs i have seen mix most of their sets in breakdowns
but i wouldn't diss what they do

ps. djs should learn a real instrument

:jaded:

respekt all

WORD...
I played keyboard once and thats about as much as i ever did with a real instrument.... oh wait a minute, its electronic does that mean its not real?.. I did learn a Guns N Roses song on guitar.

"checking their emails" is what they would appear to be doing, but if you took the time to learn and understand how the software works you would listen to the mix closely, and wonder how there making that certain sound that isnt usualy in that track. and like usb said, with a midi keyboard chockabloc with knobs and faders, whats the diference visualy

Spiesy, if someone played a killa set in Reason alone... you'd be amazed and intrigued and it would interest you in a way that you would like to know how they set up there workspace, peform multible function at once etc etc.

I never really thought it looked that cool when dj's tweeked an EQ knob with stylish flick of the wrists and had that smug look on there faces like there sik cnts! Awsome, i mean youve gotta give the crowd somthin to gork at..........

but like you said, each to there own... and I now know what the thoughts are on digital djing, even if it is with Ableton!

Peace

aerobiotic · Post by **aerobiotic** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:13 pm

Also spiesy I dont understand how you can be so WAX, Turntable passionate and still endorse a product like the Xponent, a product that boldly claims "dj'ing will never be the same", the thing doesnt even have line inputs. There goes the decks...

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:03 pm

jason midro
nuff said
i play many instruments, dj and produce
all are fun
all have equal artistic value
watching a good dj pump the crowd is pretty incredible
the first time i saw the surgeon or dj ss
fuck they both blew me away
as did seing filastine cranking ableton and some live instruments

aerobiotic · Post by **aerobiotic** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:50 am

I can understand how Midro would be good to watch... I heard he shit himself onstage and had to be dragged off, too much K.... hmmmmm

scotty woo hoo · Post by **scotty woo hoo** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:41 pm

im am looking at buying a cdj. i saw amon tobin using this numark one and his set was flawless.

http://www.numark.com/index.html?http:/ ... view&n=140

anybody used one of these?

mrj · Post by **mrj** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:41 pm

aerobiotic makes some very valid points (and also made me LOL quite hard)

Yes someone performing on a laptop looks shithouse, but is it really that much better than some wanker twisting a couple of eq knobs and punching the air. Its not like I've ever seen a DJ do a backflip.

Kid 606 looked like someone swithcing between checking his emails and cutting up lasange, but the sounds were still wikked. Having said that he wasnt as much fun to watch as Drop the Lime at the same gig, who was acting like an escaped mental patient.

I dunno, I guess I can't decide on this one, its a complex issue (huzzah, brilliant cop out mrj!!!!!)

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:03 pm

DTL was using a laptop as well
he was having fun ey
kid606 meh

SoulWhiteMan · Post by **SoulWhiteMan** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:06 pm

aerobiotic wrote:
SoulWhiteMan wrote:
Stray wrote: Isn't andy c the guy who has all his tunes set to the same bpm?
rumor has it....

But, direktor is right. There is more to djing than just mixing PARTICULARLY in drum and bass: DJs chop and change in between drum patterns, layer their tunes with one another, swap basslines, drop two of the same tune at once and essentially remix choons on the fly....

And I can scratch...somewhat
Sure, I wouldnt deny the fact that people like Craze, DJ Rectangle, Dexta have skills... But in electronic music (excluding hip hop) most djs arent really all that! Givem a djm 800 and that makes them technical... Yeh right. Sure there is more to DJ'ing than just mixing.... But how many pay'ed electronic DJ's in melbourne do more than just mix...? We need more Phil K's...

I think then, aeriobiotic, your issue is not one of what format is being used, but how that format is being used. I agree that DJs just mixing with ableton can be a tad...well, annoying, given it's capabilities. But Dan Mangan did a set for triple J on Ableton where he essentially MADE tunes as he would go along, bring in a bassline, some drums, some congas, throw a sample over the top........it was cool..

Take the other night at Lee Coombes. Citizen.com would loop house percussion and imrpovise over the top with MCs, sax and bongos... you want more of a human touch in djing....

BUT!!!!!!!!
Here's the dillemma: What really is the point? - People will get high, hoes with bounce their titties no even if a DJ is really good or not... The drugs are effective, and the technical wizadry is not always there because it doesn't need to be..... Maybe their should be that demand?
I know seeing DJ Shadow, Numark et al. is better than seeing your rank and file DJ any old day of the week.... but not everyone would agree.

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:10 am

aerobiotic wrote:Also spiesy I dont understand how you can be so WAX, Turntable passionate and still endorse a product like the Xponent, a product that boldly claims "dj'ing will never be the same", the thing doesnt even have line inputs. There goes the decks...

First up, I don't "endorse" Xponent... I've never seen it in the flesh, let alone used it. I'm interested to see what it can do is all - more so for studio stuff (scratching my vox over some hip-hop productions etc)...

I prefer vinyl. Big deal. I'm a collector first and foremost, vinyl looks better, feels better - hell, it even smells better. And personally I like the meaty sound of it, and I like the look of a DJ playing on it due to all the points I've just raised.

End of the day, a good set is a good set... wether you're playing on vinyl, CD's, beatboxing or whatever the hell you're doing.

But what I don't like is the "vinyl is obsolete" attitude. I don't agree with that and personally I think it'd be sad to see the vinyl fade away and dissapear altogether...

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:45 pm

hopefully vinyl 'never' becomes obsolete.
and yeh all the stuff about live performance is really academic. it only matters to geeks and trainspotters everyone else is just out having fun

Scotrod · Post by **Scotrod** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:36 pm

This is an interesting thread.
I think about this a lot because I was so comfortable with vinyl, yet now most of my tunes are downloads (yes legally

)
In my opinion it boils down to style. Style will win over technique any day. A lot of these products are just companies trying to cash in on the digital revolution. So what do you do?
I still don't know which way I'm gonna go.