Where to Mr. DJ - technology directions in the field of a DJ

[DBoy]

We used to argue for pages and until the early hours about CD's vs Vinyl, and no doubt at least 5 people will post in this thread that you will never beat owning a record and the feel of putting the needle on blah blah blah, and we all know the truth in that. But that is not what this is about.

The arrival of CD players did in fact bring a lot of changes to the way DJ’s operate. Tracks got straight from the producer in the afternoon to the dancefloor that night. Dj’s started being able to remix a track for a specific mix and put it on CD for that weekends gig. Looping became a matter of pressing a button, not buying the same record twice and using DJ skill. Even over that effects became more prevalent, almost to the point where DJ’s in good subtle control over a 600 are able to virtually remix a track on the spot.

The arrival of final scratch and the alike moved DJing again, providing DJ’s with an almost unlimited selection of tunes on any given night. Mixes became faster and more and more tracks slide into each mix. Once upon a time only Funk Master Flex had 60 jams in a 60 minute mix, now every tune junky with a computer can compile a monster mash of his favorite joints for the party to enjoy while he cooks a few snags on the BBQ.

Now it seems it is the inevitable, as design goes, WE HAVE TO MAKE IT SMALLER! That’s what we do, us humans, we make stuff, we make it better, we make it different, then we make it smaller.

MP3 DJing, sure, now you can fit it in ya pocket.

What’s next?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/20/busin ... ref=slogin

[Stray]

On a similar topic.. those who went to the bdo would have seen the equipment bjorks band was using.
Heaps of multi-touch screen instruments. Looked and sounded awesome.

They were using this; amongst other things -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h-RhyopUmc

[FoundationStepper]

cant youtube from here but the reactable right?

i wonder what software they were interfacing with? cos really its just a type of data controller really, possibly hooked to midi streams or max/MSP, supercollidor id guess?

[same o]

yeah if i saw some one using an ipod for djing i would jast laugh..
but hey i'm a purist through and through

[witty_pseudonym]

On a similar topic.. those who went to the bdo would have seen the equipment bjorks band was using.
Heaps of multi-touch screen instruments. Looked and sounded awesome.

They were using this; amongst other things -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h-RhyopUmc

that was by far one of the coolest things i have ever seen.

[same o]

yeah that was pretty sick.

[Stray]

cant youtube from here but the reactable right?

i wonder what software they were interfacing with? cos really its just a type of data controller really, possibly hooked to midi streams or max/MSP, supercollidor id guess?

Yeah reactable. No idea re: software. If anyone can find some footage feel free to share!

[Stray]

Actually there is lots on youtube if you search for reactable and bjork.
Just nothing from bdo though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQwW3dp2FZY

[FoundationStepper]

does it show what software she uses?

[Scotrod]

That’s what we do, us humans, we make stuff, we make it better, we make it different, then we make it smaller.

I think you just found the meaning of life!
Speaking of this stuff, a weird thing I've found lately is people trying to make requests.
It used to be some pissed up wanker who shouldn't have been let in slurring "carrrrn mate.....the chicks love it maaaaate....just put the song on ya tight arse!!!..." etc etc.
Then people started writing it in their phones and shoving it in your face like a rude prick while you're trying to play.
Now they look up the mp3 on their phone and then shove that in your face!!
I gad a girl do this and then when I shook my head, she scrolled through and just grabbed another song. I wasn't even reading her phone, I just kept shaking my head as she kept scrolling.
It eventually ended with her telling me I was shit because I didn't have any of her Ministry of Sound songs and me to telling her f**k off.
If I was thinking quick enough, I would've just told her to plug her bloody headphones into her phone and get stuffed.
Anyway, the point of this rant is tecnhology is taking over ALL apsects of DJing, even the crappy bits...

[Stray]

That’s what we do, us humans, we make stuff, we make it better, we make it different, then we make it smaller.

I think you just found the meaning of life!
Speaking of this stuff, a weird thing I've found lately is people trying to make requests.
It used to be some pissed up wanker who shouldn't have been let in slurring "carrrrn mate.....the chicks love it maaaaate....just put the song on ya tight arse!!!..." etc etc.
Then people started writing it in their phones and shoving it in your face like a rude prick while you're trying to play.
Now they look up the mp3 on their phone and then shove that in your face!!
I gad a girl do this and then when I shook my head, she scrolled through and just grabbed another song. I wasn't even reading her phone, I just kept shaking my head as she kept scrolling.
It eventually ended with her telling me I was shit because I didn't have any of her Ministry of Sound songs and me to telling her f**k off.
If I was thinking quick enough, I would've just told her to plug her bloody headphones into her phone and get stuffed.
Anyway, the point of this rant is tecnhology is taking over ALL apsects of DJing, even the crappy bits...

You should type out "sorry I don't have that song" on your phone before you start your set

[Stray]

does it show what software she uses?

No idea what the software is

Here's a screenshot -

[DBoy]

In some ways I actually see some of the developments (or changes if you like) in the technology a DJ uses as a move towards a more "live like" performace.

Incoporating samplers and effects into a DJ set effectively makes the DJ more of a musician in some respects. Guys like APT (who i think deserves more respect in Melbourne) who have loads of their own material are putting together sets that are almost live performaces in some ways.
I can foresee this becoming more common. A MPC like technology being built into mixers to accommodate people layering loops and progressing DJ's towards live performance of original, recorded and remixed material. Not that this is new, the acid techno crew from Melbourne were doing it all through the ninties, just that they brought 10+ boxes and 100 cords to set it all up, now it is more like a computer a couple of memory cards.

[Snowie]

My random thoughts.....

As much as we have to move with the times and all that, the technology, imo, is taking the wow factor out of a dj. How many people would think Qbert or Z Trip are amazing if all they were using were computers or ipod ? I for one am impressed by a dj who uses his skill of manipulating a record or a cd.

side point: A very valid point was made to me about mp3's vs wav. If you use the inversion process of subtracting one wave form against the same wave, you should have nothing left, but if you did this process with a wav file vs a mp3 you do have frequencies left over. So why do we want to accept a format that is less in quality ? Are we dumbing down the quality for the general masses ?

With this in mind, is the newer technology dumbing down the skill of a dj to the lowest common denominator ? Will it get to a point where the is no wow factor or mystic of how a good performer pulls off his show ?

Yes at the end of the day we have to move with the times, but is there a line that shouldn't be stepped over ?

[DBoy]

Compare that to my post, which takes into account that there will ALWAYS be people who take things to the ultimate degree, using everything available to them, not to dumb things down, but to make the most amazing performance possible with the given technology. To me that is more exciting than the thought of DJ'ing becoming an idiots playground.

[ATP]

In some ways I actually see some of the developments (or changes if you like) in the technology a DJ uses as a move towards a more "live like" performace.

Incoporating samplers and effects into a DJ set effectively makes the DJ more of a musician in some respects. Guys like APT (who i think deserves more respect in Melbourne) who have loads of their own material are putting together sets that are almost live performaces in some ways.
I can foresee this becoming more common. A MPC like technology being built into mixers to accommodate people layering loops and progressing DJ's towards live performance of original, recorded and remixed material. Not that this is new, the acid techno crew from Melbourne were doing it all through the ninties, just that they brought 10+ boxes and 100 cords to set it all up, now it is more like a computer a couple of memory cards.

Appreciate the kind words mate, I'm obviously biased but I tend to agree. I love the freedom I get using Ableton as I can cut stuff up and work in small ideas on the fly. I still like using wax and I'm getting into Serato but my idea of mixing is less focused on beatmatching and more on the track selection. I guess I try to use it as an instrument. I hope there is a place for both styles of DJing in the future as it will be a sad day to see the end of vinyl.

[Direkt]

That’s what we do, us humans, we make stuff, we make it better, we make it different, then we make it smaller.

I think you just found the meaning of life!
Speaking of this stuff, a weird thing I've found lately is people trying to make requests.
It used to be some pissed up wanker who shouldn't have been let in slurring "carrrrn mate.....the chicks love it maaaaate....just put the song on ya tight arse!!!..." etc etc.
Then people started writing it in their phones and shoving it in your face like a rude prick while you're trying to play.
Now they look up the mp3 on their phone and then shove that in your face!!
I gad a girl do this and then when I shook my head, she scrolled through and just grabbed another song. I wasn't even reading her phone, I just kept shaking my head as she kept scrolling.
It eventually ended with her telling me I was shit because I didn't have any of her Ministry of Sound songs and me to telling her f**k off.
If I was thinking quick enough, I would've just told her to plug her bloody headphones into her phone and get stuffed.
Anyway, the point of this rant is tecnhology is taking over ALL apsects of DJing, even the crappy bits...

You should type out "sorry I don't have that song" on your phone before you start your set

Gold!

PS: shouldn't this be in the music, or music technology forum?

[Blaxter]

Old vinyl won't die it will just gather dust.

[almax]

Where i work, we have BIG jar of old mobile phones that we used to used. Then whenever someone shoves a mobile phone in the DJs face, he takes it off them, pulls out the jar so they can see all the other phones and puts the phone in there. Funny as

[Snowie]

D,

I'm all up for using everything available to a point, as personally i have incorporated using 2 cdj's in with my 3 1200's and external sampler, but to use ableton to dj with require absolutely minimal skill, ( and yes i've been using ableton for 5 + years).

IMO, ableton should be used in a more live mode than it is be the majority people claiming to be playing "live". Don't just play a tune you have downloaded from the net and imported into ableton or play the pre programmed set they have planned at home. Instead drop a drum loop, then drop in a bass loop, then bring in the leads and other percussion. Make it up on the fly, become the rare exception.

Yes for the rare exceptional few who do take it to the ultimate degree, it is exciting, but unfortunately the technology has left room for the dumbing down of the skills.

[Snowie]

To read what ATP just wrote above is exactly what i'm on about, personally it is good to hear somebody say such things as use it more like an instrument, but unfortunately he is in the minority as i have seen way to many using it at it's lowest common denominator

[DBoy]

I find the positives outweigh the negatives.

[ghetto kitty]

it is good to hear somebody say such things as use it more like an instrument, but unfortunately he is in the minority as i have seen way to many using it at it's lowest common denominator

the same could be said for djs playing rekkids.

the amount of demos i get that are utter crap shows me that even using the purist ways, you can still be crap hehhe

i think its inevitable that the tools will get more and more advacned and smaller, and there are some who will go out and buy themselves the right tools, a whole studio from the world go, and make shit.

there are also those who will continue to mic up metal pipes and bash em together and make amazing music in the future too.

i agree with dboy, the more technology, the more possibilities!

[FoundationStepper]

I get the impression there in some melbourne circles there still seems to be resistance to the idea of someone coming in with their laptop to play a DJ based set

[Snowie]

Yes, ableton is more powerfull than just using to go from track to track. For me it show no skills, as it is a click of one button to beatmatch the track and mix it. If it is used as an instrument, yes i am impressed. A prime example of someone who really max's out the capabilities of ableton is Myagi

the more technology, the more possibilities - Very true, if it is used in a innovative way.

Yes the same can be said of dj's, who don't try evolve their sound, their skills, who don't try new things, challenge their comfort zones.

[ghetto kitty]

yes there is.
among djs AND promoters AND punters i think.

man, in 1999 in my underground club in Adelaide, i had a no CDs rule even!

that has definately changed, and i think the purists of the world in general, in any medium, get less and less as time and sharing and technology expands.

[same o]

I get the impression there in some melbourne circles there still seems to be resistance to the idea of someone coming in with their laptop to play a DJ based set

thats cuz no one can see what there doing, for all i know they could be playing space invaders with winamp playing a pre recorded set..

[FoundationStepper]

its a load of shit and people need to get of thier head arsed high horse

playing records can also be one of the most boring things in the world to see

give me someone bruking out whilst working a midi controller I say

[same o]

every one that i have seen in melbourne playing on ableton has been boring.

the only people that have impressed me with ableton is sasha and riche hawton.

i think ableton can be cool, but there isnt really many people pushing the boundries that i have seen.

what i have seen is people mixing tunes with a midi controller which to me is just abit shit.

[same o]

and u cant do wheeel ups..

[FoundationStepper]

i think playing records can be cool, but there isnt really many people pushing the boundries that i have seen.

[same o]

change my words why i ouuughta..

[Hatsudai]

technology has left room for the dumbing down of the skills.

not just in music!

[same o]

I think i dont like ableton and even cdjs to an extent (although i am starting to come around)
because vynil is such a massive part of the culture.

i mean d'n'b, garage, dubstep all have that regaee sound system culture with dubplates and what not.
and it is so entrenched in the culture, you go to a dmz in london and you wont find any one playing cd's, it's straight dub plates that they have got cut.

[FoundationStepper]

lol at the refernce to reggae sound system culture - in jamaica they havent used records music in quite a few years now, only CDs.

and these days almost no vinyl whatsoever. the whole reggae 7" thing has existed solely as an export market in the past few years

[same o]

lol at the refernce to reggae sound system culture - in jamaica they havent used records music in quite a few years now, only CDs.

and these days almost no vinyl whatsoever. the whole reggae 7" thing has existed solely as an export market in the past few years

fair nuff, shows how much i know about regaee.

[FoundationStepper]

Im not laughing at what your saying,

its just funny that these subcultures (pun intended) which have some sort of west indies link have this vinyl fetishisation which has hung on well after the yardies have moved on for practicality, hot to play and cost reasons...

[same o]

yeah it is kinda funny..

guess time will tell

[Scotrod]

Just a quick question......
People were playing records and making people dance way before SL1200's. What if everyone said "+8 pitch control?..that's cheating" and stuck to pushing belt drives?
DJing is

[Blueprint]

Bjork's whole approach to the live show is how can she make it look ‘live’ even in the digital world. The reaktable and the lemur are great instruments to visualise this, even when at the end of the day they’re rarely adding more than a 303 in the background (as was the case for most of BDO).

I think the dj/ableton world can take a few tips from the band world. Laptops/decks, they’re all just instruments producing sound, the performance you put on both visually and sound is what the crowd reacts to.

[same o]

my uncle used to be a dj at a roller skating ring..

[DBoy]

I think the dj/ableton world can take a few tips from the band world. Laptops/decks, they’re all just instruments producing sound, the performance you put on both visually and sound is what the crowd reacts to.

SPOT ON!

[DBoy]

that said it still is great to see a really amazing musical performance - even if the performer is boring, and less impressive to see a shit music performance - even if the performer is naked. (or just a really interesting character)

[system]

interfaces don't dictate the quality of the performance, let alone the music.

the introductory post to this thread forgets what was happening in the 1980's with 1/4" tape, for a start. producers were definitely playing what they'd produced that day in the late night clubs. all that's happening, similar to 'desktop publishing' in the 1980's, is that the introductory cost regarding equipment is significantly reduced.

so, isn't this all a bit moot?

[unsoundbwoy]

i think the resistance from punters towards laptops has diminished significantly in the last couple of years.
what people seem to want is a sense of cause and effect
like seeing someone going mental over a midi controller and hearing when someone does a filter sweep or when they're seeing someone bashing drum pads and hearing the beats change. its like how people like guitar solo's
using ableton to play a pre-made mix is pretty fucking lazy and i can't see how anyone could stay interested in doing it set after set, but if its too technical the engagement with the audience is lost and its just someone masturbating over their laptops
laptops and vinyl cdj are both an important part of the musical spectrum to me,.playing with general malice and seeing him rip it on turtntables and cds a couple of months ago blew me away and i remembered what it is to be inspired by a dj, in much the same way that x&trick made me even more excited by the possibilities of laptop performance

as far as soundsystem culture goes, i find voicing dubs and working with dancehall artists and labels more fulfilling than only using records

[DBoy]

so, isn't this all a bit moot?

given the level of response, you would have to say no.
Dismissive bastard.

[system]

Dismissive bastard.

f'realz.

[Lós Kasino—]

Pretty much every DJ I've seen over here in New York, in bars, clubs & parties is using Serato (bar the odd International headliner sticking to the vinyl.)


....and its affects are showing - in the last 12 months here 3 big time record stores have shut their doors (Dancetracks, Satellite and the dnb specialty, Breakbeat Science)


In fact, in a city of this size, I was shocked to find only one record store that stocked a very small crate of Drum & Bass vinyl.


Being a vinyl-addict myself, I have sworn to continue purchasing tunes I really love, but the move to Serato is not only tempting, it seems almost compulsory.

[FoundationStepper]

I would hope that the next genreation technology to make it and survive are those that provide the functionality/tactility DJs are used to, without requiring the installation/patching of bought in gear

the problem with serato is you need to bring in/patch your lap top

with these mini things, the flexiblity and funcitonality isnt there really either...

ideally id like to be able to use good spinning platter CDJs style units that feel close to vinyl in how you manipuate them, hooked to a traditional mixer (preferably a good one!) - but to have the ability to plug in my own files off flash or whaever, usb stick even - and view the waveform on the unit itself.

all patched into the mixer, ready to go, no fing about

that would be ace

[spiral]

Playing live from your DS with nitro tracker, electro plankton and nano loop. The world in your pocket.