Saddam gets the death sentence

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:02 pm

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/sad ... 39031.html

Bit sad they're going to hang him. I'd have thought being torn to pieces by rabid dogs would have been more fitting, but, c'est la vie.

aerobiotic · Post by **aerobiotic** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:17 pm

You bloody RIPPA!

Jinx · Post by **Jinx** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:24 pm

I`d rather see him rat in a 2ft x 2ft x 2ft cell

Mellogs · Post by **Mellogs** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:29 pm

"More than three and a half years after the president was deposed in a US-led invasion, the country is more violent and divided than ever, and today's verdict is expected to increase tensions."

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:34 pm

Mellogs wrote:"More than three and a half years after the president was deposed in a US-led invasion, the country is more violent and divided than ever, and today's verdict is expected to increase tensions."

The Middle East: God's Monkey House.

Pull up a chair and put on the kettle, shit's about to get weird.

Sustain · Post by **Sustain** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:44 pm

Hardy wrote:http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/sad ... 39031.html

Bit sad they're going to hang him. I'd have thought being torn to pieces by rabid dogs would have been more fitting, but, c'est la vie.

Saddam actually requested to be executed by firing squad, on the grounds that hanging is a punishment for foreign criminals, not a man of his stature.

The appeal was denied...

Post by **fooishbar** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:21 pm

right, i'm sure this one's going to help.

seriously, he was a very bad man, but you can seriously stand by and cheer him on, and nto say a word about the people who sold him chemical weapons with the obvious knowledge that he was going to use them to gas civilians?

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:30 pm

fooishbar wrote:right, i'm sure this one's going to help.

seriously, he was a very bad man, but you can seriously stand by and cheer him on, and nto say a word about the people who sold him chemical weapons with the obvious knowledge that he was going to use them to gas civilians?

True, but that doesn't make him any less evil or give him a right to live.

valuetime · Post by **valuetime** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:43 pm

oh man, really? that's awesome. that'll wrap the whole thing up nicely. he was a brutal fucker. and only two days before the US midterms...

these guys at the iraqi special kangaroo tribunal know how to get shit done. imagine if they were given the slobodan case; bitch would have swung like a grandfather clock.

anyway, i'm gonna sleep like a baby tonight, knowing that the war was all worth it and justice has been served.

(monkeys, hardy? bit fucking harsh.)

Post by **fooishbar** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:46 pm

and here i was thinking only the drumfunk types were allowed to be jaded, cynical, and angry, on melbournebeats.

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:06 pm

valuetime wrote:
(monkeys, hardy? bit fucking harsh.)

Mate, it's a fucking circus over there.

RMHC · Post by **RMHC** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:18 pm

Hardy wrote:
valuetime wrote:
(monkeys, hardy? bit fucking harsh.)
Mate, it's a fucking circus over there.

pretty large generalisation...

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:21 pm

tiggus85 wrote:
Hardy wrote:
valuetime wrote:
(monkeys, hardy? bit fucking harsh.)
Mate, it's a fucking circus over there.
pretty large generalisation...

considering the amount certain elements of the international community are fanning the flames of conflict in parts of the middle east.

... I know the "international community" are fanning the flames. That just adds to its nuthouse qualities.

Post by **fooishbar** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:22 pm

tiggus85 wrote:considering the amount certain elements of the international community are fanning the flames of conflict in parts of the middle east.

well, most of them, and they always have. france and britain haven't been able to resist, dating back long before the us ever got bored enough to start playing empire.

kronz · Post by **kronz** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:03 am

I THINK YOU HAVE ALL MADE A VERY NAIEVE MISINFORMED OPINION, SAYING THAT IT IS â€œGOODâ€ THAT SADDHAM IS GOING TO BE EXECUTED.

I should preface this by saying that Saddhamâ€™s gassing of the Kurds was a grossly inhumane and repugnant. Secondly, the death penalty is equally as inhumane and is clearly evident in the fact that only three developed nations on earth impose the death penalty, the US, Japan and Singapore.

The issue that I have with the judgment that was passed was that it was made by an illegitimate court, destroying almost every accepted norm of international law that has been established in the post 1945 world. Let alone the key reasons why the US invaded Iraq, to spread â€œdemocracy and freedomâ€.

A court that was hand picked to try the formed leader of Iraq is not legitimate. It simple resembles a proxy American government. Established to legitimise one of the most tragic, misguided foreign policy decisions Washington has ever made. The main way that the American government can justify and excuse its invasion of Iraq to the voting American public is to execute Saddham. It seems more than evident to me that the process that was followed by this â€œcourtâ€ was merely a show trial, with a pre-determined verdict. Was Saddham ever going to be found not guilty? I don't think so.

What frustrates me about this situation is that justice is not being handed out by a fair impartial party. It is being dispensed by an even more compulsive violator of international law, the United Sates of America. The American invasion of Iraq was in breach of section 2(7) of the UN charter. The US treatment of prisoners in Guantanimo bay is in breach of the Geneva conventions. America has killed more Iraqi civilians than Saddham did, but that just collateral damage as far as America is concerned. Even more hypocritical is that the gas that Saddham used on the Kurds was AMERICAN. Which was also a breach of international law.

The Question I have is how can this judgment be seen as legitimate in light of the facts? How is it that one party can have such flagrant disregard for international law and on the other hand be claiming to be enforcing it?

Saddham was/is not a nice person. What he did was not right and I am by no means trying to excuse his behaviour. All I am trying to do is view the situation objectively. I don't believe that is a just decision to execute him. If Iraq eventually re-establishes itself as a stable country and a legitimate court then decides to execute him then so be it. They would be a sovereign country with the right to enforce their own laws. However at present the government of Iraq and in turn the â€œlegalâ€ system is merely a puppet of the American government.

What is also of concern is what ramifications such a verdict will have in Iraq. How many people will die now as a result of reactionary violence that will ensue from this judgement. How many Iraqi lives must be taken in the name of â€œtoppling a dictatorâ€, fighting terrorism and avenging the death of the D11 victims.

All political issues aside, NO person has the right to determine if another human being should live or die. If remember correctly, a few months ago when Van Neugen was about to be executed in Singapore people here were outraged. Why should this be any different? What give anyone the right to say â€œoh but he is bad he should be executed.â€

The current administration will be extremely happy with the verdict passed down. It helps to legitimise it actions to a very ignorant public at a time when the Republican Party is in crisis.

If people disagree with me fine, but I don't think it is good that people are HAPPY about others deciding if a human being should live or die.

mecka · Post by **mecka** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:38 am

I would be happy to shoot the fucker in the back of the head and drop his body in an unmarked grave.

Lephrenic · Post by **Lephrenic** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:52 am

1. Saddam was helped to power by the US.

2. Saddam did not gas the Kurds. The responsibility for that deed goes to Iran.

3. Dead men tell no tales.

Sustain · Post by **Sustain** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:59 am

kronz wrote: All political issues aside, NO person has the right to determine if another human being should live or die.

The execution of Saddam merely serves to legitimate the ideology that the state has the right to murder people (citizens or non-citizens).

In a twist of irony, it is for this very crime that Saddam has been sentenced to death.

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:03 am

mecka wrote:I would be happy to shoot the fucker in the back of the head and drop his body in an unmarked grave.

:script:

Fuck all this "who are we to kill another human" bullshit. The fucker has proven himself unworthy of life. Why the fuck should he be allowed to live? Fuck him.

Yes, we all know that the US sold him weapons which is very naughty, but HE is the one who used them.

Whether or not he was tried and sentenced under "legitimate law" is of such fucking little concern to me. Arsehole is getting less than he deserves.

*EDIT*

Unless he says sorry and really means it.

Post by **lynt** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:07 am

Oh dear.

Whatever the case may be, I truely hope people seek the truth rather than hype.

Post by **fooishbar** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:21 am

disclaimer: i think i'm still officially enrolled in an arts degree at unimelb.

Rob M · Post by **Rob M** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:58 am

I think humanity has a very long way to go before there is any preconceived notions of a golden age; whereby fascism [American, or otherwise] is an indoctrinated prerequisite to fostering civil stability.

Death penalties or not, the imposition of law that flows from corrupt statutes is not how you grow a decent and respectful society.

As somebody mentioned earlier, Van Nguyen was ultimately hung for possession and intention to distribute narcotics. If you delve into the plight that was, you would know he did this through love of his brother; to essentially remove financial problems within his own family. He took the wrong route and wasn't given the opportunity to learn from his mistakes. It cost him his life.

People do the wrong things. People learn from them. Some don't.

In the case of Saddam, I cannot fully appreciate the breadth of his horrible reign, nor will I comment on it. But know this...

Ideology is destruction itself. If objectivity is your game, then the biggest destructive factor on this planet is love. We are all ironically, blissed and at the same time expunged by this impossible requiem. Take a deeper look into your own ideology or that of your neighbors. Can you be logical and non-complacent about identifying justice itself?

Every living person can take solace in the fact that they are 1 in a network of many solemn and respectful minds. What I'm trying to say here is that it would be wrong to justify the cessation of a life for the gratification of another's ideology.

God doesn't take sides. Momento mori.

Grey Son · Post by **Grey Son** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:07 am

This thread is wak...... wik wiky wiky wak wa wak wak!!!

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:28 am

Grey Son wrote:This thread is wak...... wik wiky wiky wak wa wak wak!!!

Why?

Grey Son · Post by **Grey Son** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:40 am

It just is...........
" Its not you...its me"

nic · Post by **nic** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:42 am

special kangaroo tribunal know how to get shit done

lol yes

C.I.A. · Post by **C.I.A.** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:43 am

This is a very fucking scary situation.

Kronz: on the money.

ADD_Boy · Post by **ADD_Boy** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:48 am

Great post Kronz.

The world is FUCKED !!!

mrj · Post by **mrj** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:52 am

Kronz and Heggsy are both on the money.

dangerous times ahead kids.

kronz · Post by **kronz** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:55 am

Rob M wrote: Death penalties or not, the imposition of law that flows from corrupt statutes is not how you grow a decent and respectful society.

Rob M wrote: it would be wrong to justify the cessation of a life for the gratification of another's ideology.

God doesn't take sides. Momento mori.

Very well said!

Mecka, Hardy and BammBamm

Mecka wrote:I would be happy to shoot the fucker in the back of the head and drop his body in an unmarked grave.

Hardy wrote:The fucker has proven himself unworthy of life.

BammBamm wrote:I`d rather see him rat in a 2ft x 2ft x 2ft cell

With comments like these aren't you guys putting yourselves on the same level with the same mind set as Saddham did. With comments like these you are effectively aserting the same draconian repugnant authoritarianism that characterised Saddhams rule of Iraq. Did your mums ever teach you that "two wrongs dont make a right?"

Executing Saddham will not do any good. It will note bring back the people that died under his regime, it will not help fight islamic fundermentalism, it will not make America a safer place and it will not bring peace and democracy to Iraq.

A few days before American mid-terms in which the republican party is in danger of loosing cxontrol of congress, this verdict is simply predetermined political capital the republican party needed to justify it own imperialistic ambitions.

Please people dont excuse what Saddham did but at the same time dont bring yourselves down to his level.

C.I.A. · Post by **C.I.A.** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:00 am

kronz wrote:
Rob M wrote: Death penalties or not, the imposition of law that flows from corrupt statutes is not how you grow a decent and respectful society.

Rob M wrote: it would be wrong to justify the cessation of a life for the gratification of another's ideology.

God doesn't take sides. Momento mori.

Very well said!

Mecka, Hardy and BammBamm

Mecka wrote:I would be happy to shoot the fucker in the back of the head and drop his body in an unmarked grave.

Hardy wrote:The fucker has proven himself unworthy of life.

BammBamm wrote:I`d rather see him rat in a 2ft x 2ft x 2ft cell
With comments like these aren't you guys putting yourselves on the same level with the same mind set as Saddham did. With comments like these you are effectively aserting the same draconian repugnant authoritarianism that characterised Saddhams rule of Iraq. Did your mums ever teach you that "two wrongs dont make a right?"

Executing Saddham will not do any good. It will note bring back the people that died under his regime, it will not help fight islamic fundermentalism, it will not make America a safer place and it will not bring peace and democracy to Iraq.

A few days before American mid-terms in which the republican party is in danger of loosing cxontrol of congress, this verdict is simply predetermined political capital the republican party needed to justify it own imperialistic ambitions.

Please people dont excuse what Saddham did but at the same time dont bring yourselves down to his level.

The scary thing is that the US would happily do any of those things to Saddam if the public demanded it. The republicans have hashed up the war in Iraq so badly that something like this will save face.

Any of you guys hear about the USA claiming outerspace?? Anyone who opposes them is an enemy.

RMHC · Post by **RMHC** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:00 am

flippo · Post by **flippo** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:33 am

I've expressed my views as to why I think the death penalty should never be given on this forgum a couple of times. Even in extreme cases like this it still holds true, the fundamental principals behind it are too strong to have any level of emotional (or political in this case

) reasons to over-rule them. Aside from that, problem with this trail and sentance is all the backwards hicks, the scared and blind patriotics, and the evangelicals who are sitting around praying for Dubya to lead theworld into armagedon so that Jesus will come back will think that something must be right because a bad man died. It's a nice symbolic finale for those who are too stupid, lazy or just blocking their ears going "Na na na na na na " to actually see what the fuck has/is happening.

Do not confuse this with me saying that Sadam is a nice guy and does not deserve harsh punishment, that's far from the case. Things are just not so black and white, us vs. them, good vs. evil in this world. It's the kind of mentality that leads to hand grenades thrown in market places, planesinto buidings, and fuck-nuckle mongoloids like G.W. getting away with just making up the rules as they go along because his nation are so scared of the brown people.

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:20 am

anyone else read this?
its an account of the build up to invasion, the war and the aftermath. by a non-embedded journalist.

C.I.A. · Post by **C.I.A.** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:25 am

unsoundbwoy wrote:anyone else read this?
its an account of the build up to invasion, the war and the aftermath. by a non-embedded journalist.

No. Looks v. interesting. Will have to gets me a copy.

I'm so obsessed by trying to unravel propaganda from truth; not always an easy thing when we are bombarded with one side of the story by highly biased media sources.

Jinx · Post by **Jinx** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:31 am

BammBamm wrote:
I`d rather see him rat in a 2ft x 2ft x 2ft cell

With comments like these aren't you guys putting yourselves on the same level with the same mind set as Saddham did. With comments like these you are effectively aserting the same draconian repugnant authoritarianism that characterised Saddhams rule of Iraq. Did your mums ever teach you that "two wrongs dont make a right?"

Executing Saddham will not do any good. It will note bring back the people that died under his regime, it will not help fight islamic fundermentalism, it will not make America a safer place and it will not bring peace and democracy to Iraq.

A few days before American mid-terms in which the republican party is in danger of loosing cxontrol of congress, this verdict is simply predetermined political capital the republican party needed to justify it own imperialistic ambitions.

Please people dont excuse what Saddham did but at the same time dont bring yourselves down to his level.

Im not advocating the death penalty, I am saying that he deserves a life confined to a cell with very little privlege. Two wrongs dont make a right* but if you do the crime you do the time. What do you suggest is done for him Kronz?

factory worker · Post by **factory worker** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:02 am

I say we test amphetamines and other chemicals via longitdunal studdy, and harness some energy out of him by making him treddle a power generator that is like a rowing maching with bike pedals - 4 limbs genertaing electricity 22 hours a day.

Post by **lynt** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:09 am

kronz wrote:
Rob M wrote: Death penalties or not, the imposition of law that flows from corrupt statutes is not how you grow a decent and respectful society.

Rob M wrote: it would be wrong to justify the cessation of a life for the gratification of another's ideology.

God doesn't take sides. Momento mori.

Very well said!

Mecka, Hardy and BammBamm

Mecka wrote:I would be happy to shoot the fucker in the back of the head and drop his body in an unmarked grave.

Hardy wrote:The fucker has proven himself unworthy of life.

BammBamm wrote:I`d rather see him rat in a 2ft x 2ft x 2ft cell
With comments like these aren't you guys putting yourselves on the same level with the same mind set as Saddham did. With comments like these you are effectively aserting the same draconian repugnant authoritarianism that characterised Saddhams rule of Iraq. Did your mums ever teach you that "two wrongs dont make a right?"

Executing Saddham will not do any good. It will note bring back the people that died under his regime, it will not help fight islamic fundermentalism, it will not make America a safer place and it will not bring peace and democracy to Iraq.

A few days before American mid-terms in which the republican party is in danger of loosing cxontrol of congress, this verdict is simply predetermined political capital the republican party needed to justify it own imperialistic ambitions.

Please people dont excuse what Saddham did but at the same time dont bring yourselves down to his level.

Jinx · Post by **Jinx** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:11 am

Its pretty insane that 6 or so months ago John Howard was saying how he and Australia oppose the death sentence (when Ngyuen was getting it) and today he is on tv saying he is happy with the penalty of death being dealt to Saddam...

kronz · Post by **kronz** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:33 am

BammBamm wrote: What do you suggest is done for him Kronz?

FW's idea is amusing yet unfortunately unethical.

First and foremost he needs to be tried by an impartial court that observes the "rule of law."

Unfortunately such a court could not possibly be found in Iraq or the US. Iraq is too much of an ethnically polarised country, it would be impossible for any court to be impartial. The US couldnâ€™t try him either, that would be "victors justice" and if any of the lessons of WWII are to be observed it wouldn't work. Put simple you have the pot calling the kettle black.

Because the war in Iraq is such a divisive issue, in order for him to be tried it can not happen at this point in time. Maybe it needs to be in 3 years, 5 years i donâ€™t know. Until such time, when the violence has settled in Iraq, Saddham should be held under house arrest. Remember people are innocent until proven guilty and therefore cant be held in jail.

Once it is deemed to be appropriate for a trial it should be conducted by the International Criminal Court. A body set up by the UN to deal with such trials. However the problem with that is that the US does not recognise the jurisdiction of the ICC. The US claims that its legal system is so superior that it would prosecute an US citizens guilty of such crimes. The real reason that the US does not recognise the ICC is that many of it men of power, pretty much all of them since 1945 could be charged with crimes against humanity and who is going to try and police America? Nobody(the hypocrisy, i can do what i want but you have to do what i say). This brings us back to the issue of what gives the US the right to capture him and put him on trial in the first place.

Back to your question BammBamm. If such a fair trial following the rule of law can be established and untainted unbiased evidence can be produced of a sufficient level for him to be found guilty, then he should be jailed for the remainder of his life. However he should be given every right that people convicted of a crime would be given either here or in Europe. Justice is not revenge or torture. Putting him in a 2x2 cell is inhumane irrespective of what crimes he may have committed.

Rob M · Post by **Rob M** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:36 am

I think we all know the political game well by now; to know there will always be contradictions in anything past and present that Howard deals with.

mecka · Post by **mecka** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:07 pm

This thread = can of worms.

Some people do not deserve to live. nuff said.

factory worker · Post by **factory worker** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:19 pm

mecka wrote:This thread = can of worms.

Some people do not deserve to live. nuff said.

Some of us don't want to be alive. But it's illegal to commit suicide. what can you do? Prtactice a bit of ethnic cleansing and wait to be sentenced to death>

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:41 pm

kronz wrote:
Rob M wrote: Death penalties or not, the imposition of law that flows from corrupt statutes is not how you grow a decent and respectful society.

Rob M wrote: it would be wrong to justify the cessation of a life for the gratification of another's ideology.

God doesn't take sides. Momento mori.

Very well said!

Mecka, Hardy and BammBamm

Mecka wrote:I would be happy to shoot the fucker in the back of the head and drop his body in an unmarked grave.

Hardy wrote:The fucker has proven himself unworthy of life.

BammBamm wrote:I`d rather see him rat in a 2ft x 2ft x 2ft cell
With comments like these aren't you guys putting yourselves on the same level with the same mind set as Saddham did. With comments like these you are effectively aserting the same draconian repugnant authoritarianism that characterised Saddhams rule of Iraq. Did your mums ever teach you that "two wrongs dont make a right?"

Executing Saddham will not do any good. It will note bring back the people that died under his regime, it will not help fight islamic fundermentalism, it will not make America a safer place and it will not bring peace and democracy to Iraq.

A few days before American mid-terms in which the republican party is in danger of loosing cxontrol of congress, this verdict is simply predetermined political capital the republican party needed to justify it own imperialistic ambitions.

Please people dont excuse what Saddham did but at the same time dont bring yourselves down to his level.

meh.

mecka · Post by **mecka** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:43 pm

tom are you back at work today?

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:44 pm

mecka wrote:tom are you back at work today?

Yeah, but i left sick. Just got home

factory worker · Post by **factory worker** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:52 pm

Hardy wrote:
mecka wrote:tom are you back at work today?
Yeah, but i left sick. Just got home

As long as you didn't purge any minority communities on the way home, heres hoping your health returns soon.

Grey Son · Post by **Grey Son** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:11 pm

BammBamm wrote:Its pretty insane that 6 or so months ago John Howard was saying how he and Australia oppose the death sentence (when Ngyuen was getting it) and today he is on tv saying he is happy with the penalty of death being dealt to Saddam...

There the most oppisite situations ever man!!
And anyway, if you had somebody killed by Saddham then you WOULD want him dead, i mean cmon. I know fuck all about the dude ( and neither does anyone here ) but he was a cunt and thats known to an extent. Same as the leaders of Dafur in Sudan should have there fuckin heads chopped off for aiding the Janjaweed. But if what im reading on here is true we should just catch em and rub there hair gently saying " ohhh you poor thing, your life was hard and corupted, you daddy didnt play ball with you,pffffff.

factory worker · Post by **factory worker** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:25 pm

Grey Son wrote:
BammBamm wrote:Its pretty insane that 6 or so months ago John Howard was saying how he and Australia oppose the death sentence (when Ngyuen was getting it) and today he is on tv saying he is happy with the penalty of death being dealt to Saddam...
There the most oppisite situations ever man!!
And anyway, if you had somebody killed by Saddham then you WOULD want him dead, i mean cmon. I know fuck all about the dude ( and neither does anyone here ) but he was a cunt and thats known to an extent. Same as the leaders of Dafur in Sudan should have there fuckin heads chopped off for aiding the Janjaweed. But if what im reading on here is true we should just catch em and rub there hair gently saying " ohhh you poor thing, your life was hard and corupted, you daddy didnt play ball with you,pffffff.

We should round up all the terrorists and let them play hide and seek with bombs trapped to their bodies.

Is the USA still the only country to have been successfully charged as terrorists by a world court?

Sustain · Post by **Sustain** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:52 pm

Grey Son wrote: I know fuck all about the dude ( and neither does anyone here ) but he was a cunt and thats known to an extent.

Melbourne Beats

Saddam gets the death sentence

Saddam gets the death sentence

Re: Saddam gets the death sentence