Give me a REASON thread!!

Grey Son · Post by **Grey Son** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:55 pm

Been messin around with Reason a bit lately and so far i love it. Not havin plug in ability it has taught me to use samples very creatively and effects in a minimal manor, Ive pumped out alot better quality beats than i was on Ableton so far. Anyone use Reason, got any tips, tricks you can let me in on. I find sequencing the only tricky part on Reason!!

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:41 pm

http://melbournebeats.com/forum/viewtop ... 32&start=0

Check that out Grey Son, it's a whole thread dedicated to those that either:
a) Love Reason
b) Hate Reason.

I've used it a fair bit mate, feel free to ask me questions - I'll do my best to answer.

LuKo · Post by **LuKo** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:55 pm

Sequencing is the whole reason, reason is gay. and why i dumped it like the scraggy hoe you discover it is once you get to know it

ok thats the end of my reason bashing........maybe

LuKo · Post by **LuKo** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:58 pm

I shouldnt be so negative

making good music has got nothing to do with your DAW

rock on grey son! let us know when theres a reason track up on your space for us to hear!

peace

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:16 pm

I love reason, except for two things.

1) The inability to load external plug-ins

2) The sequencer setup is very messy once you start automating heaps of things.

Other than that - a very creative tool it is indeed!

Grey Son · Post by **Grey Son** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:28 pm

Ok as everyone here knows by now im all over the joint with my progs. Ableton the SX to Reason etc etc. I have found REASON so far to be my fav. I like the fact that i have a limited supply of efx meaning i need to use them sparingly making me work on my sounds so they are top notch without needing to many efx. Just want to know from peeps something i get stuck on. I make everything in a 16 bar loop right, drums and some sounds and have em all looping until i get the sounds i want. I hit a brick wall when it comes to going " right time to constuct the track".
What do you guys do???

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:42 pm

Just turn your sequencer off and think about how you'd like it to sound in your head mate - then do it.

I reckon that's the easiest way.

If you're writing your hip-hop. just go about it logically, think up and transpose onto the sequencer your into/verse/chorus/outro sections in whatever order you want them, then go through and fine tune where you need.

flippo · Post by **flippo** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:46 pm

I usually just do improvisations, let it run out for 5 minss recoding playing shit on the keyboard, then I build on it.

LuKo · Post by **LuKo** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:55 pm

song maps

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:04 pm

WHAT 16 BAR LOOPS!!!!!
no no no my friend

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:07 pm

but yeh think about where it feels natural for a change
or be formulaic
16 bar intro, bit heavier at 32, breakdown at 64, build 79, drop at 80 nutter break at 92 'dj loops' at aroun 100 start outro at 120 out by 128

Grey Son · Post by **Grey Son** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:14 pm

unsoundbwoy wrote:WHAT 16 BAR LOOPS!!!!!
no no no my friend

So do you just building up straight away, intro, verses etc etc????

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:00 pm

think beyond the circle.
pm sent

Grey Son · Post by **Grey Son** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:13 pm

unsoundbwoy wrote:think beyond the circle.
pm sent

calstro · Post by **calstro** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:47 pm

I was a big REASON (rewired into SX) fan for years... eventually I was convinced to dump it... haven't looked back... doubt I'd ever use again.

LuKo · Post by **LuKo** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:16 pm

unsoundbwoy wrote:think beyond the circle.
pm sent

why put that in a PM

is this not a forum for people to share

I've noticed the way you often hint towards the right answer but never actually give it... with light bulb moments i'd agree but this is straight up basics..

if anyone out there is writing 16 bar loops - stop

32 bar loops minimum.

For basslines mostly and to a certain extent percussion, think question and answer, up then down, down then up

listen to any descent trrack with a melody and you will hear it ask a question (build up in pitch or pattern) then answer (build back down in pitch or pattern) this can be in reverse, or extremely complex over more than 32 bars, but its there.

for ages I sat there and wrote 16 bar loops and wondered why i could never arrange it all once done, things need to flow into one another.

Google the word 'motif'.

Also I will repeat, listen to what you like and create a song map of it, list out how things happen, as soundbwoy said, be methodical sketch it out 16 bars = intro, 32 bars = drop in the main groove, 64 bars drop out all elements exceptr a few for 16 bars, use the filters to build interest as you rock into the next section with a big bang and a crazy fill and a smashing crash cymbol, it should take itself from there!

rock on mate

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:18 pm

thread hijack 627 for the week

When we hear people discussing the structure of Dance music,
we're used to hearing about 'The Intro', 'The Breakdown', 'The
Drop', 'The Bridge', etc. Forget all that, for now. There's
something much more important about the form to be aware of!

Think back to some of your favourite tracks. Do any of them
comprise of a main section that occurs either side of a
midsection? Or maybe some of them are built around 2 or more
ideas - one of which takes lead importance, the rest acting as
breaks or temporary distractions from the main theme? Let's
represent each of these sections with the algebraic terms; A, B,
C, D, E, & so on (depending on how many sections the piece is
built from).

This leads us to a time-tested convention. Ignoring the typical
structural terms, described above, consider that the OVERALL
form of a piece might be expressed in a similar fashion to the
following examples:

ABA

ABCA

ABABA

ABCBA

ABACA

Typically, the parts that make up these kinds of formations are
written with different, contrasting musical elements. For
example; often the instrumentation will be different, the
overall mood will have shifted, & a key change may take place.

Maybe you thought this was obvious, or unimportant. Hold tight -
the magic hasn't nearly started yet. Many composers consider
that the A part of the form must end the piece as well as
starting it. Near enough ALL pop music is constructed in this
way. The typical theory cited is that a piece of music should
start somewhere, take you somewhere, then return you to where
you started.

However, it's difficult to ignore the fact that a lot of Dance
music works in an interestingly different way. Why? Well, way
back when I first learnt about this type of symmetrical form, I
started constructing all my songs with a simple ABA form. Not
ideal. On the plus side, this gives tracks a satisfying motion
to them; the emotional trip makes sense, the end feels like the
end.

The question is, how valid is that within the context of a DJ's
mix? Several times I've heard reputable DJs describe how they
build a mix with a few different areas. Maybe they'll want to
start the mix with intrigue & capture, moving swiftly into an
uplifting section, & end with a bang. If you're a DJ, you'll
know exactly what I'm talking about! What am I getting at? A
Dance track doesn't necessarily have to end with resolve. In
a similar rules-breaking ethic to the way some tracks start
with a breakdown, rather than a typical beats intro, some
tracks will end as if they're ready to lead on to the next
section of music. Thus, a new style of form is born, for
example:

ABAB

ABAC

ABCB

ABCAB

...or even ABCD (in an extremely bold case)!

So why bother learning about this form at all? For one thing,
being aware of this form, rather than guessing & feeling your
way around in the dark, has the potential to really tighten up
your skills as a writer. But it's not just the overall form of
the piece where this convention is useful. Now for the magic...

A lot of composers are aware that these overall forms exist, to
give them an idea of how to begin, lead & finish a track. In my
experience, far fewer seem aware that the same convention has
been used to construct a more elaborate riff out of a small
phrase, or a melody out of a riff. Picture this. You've got a
great gap in a track you're working on that you'd like to put
a riff into. Nothing seems to come to your head. You sleep on
it. Still no luck. You try playing around on the keyboard, but
nothing seems to feel right. Stop right there!

If this has happened to you in the past - if writing music has
always been a painful process of waiting, trying, searching for
inspiration - I'm here to tell you of another way. It's called
'approaching with a logical understanding of what works & what
doesn't'. Now I can't offer a quick solution that's going to
fix all your problems over night, but I can offer the puzzle
piece-by-piece. Check this.
Let's say we represent each bar of a 4-bar riff with algebra:

AAAB

AABA

AABC

ABAC

ABCA

There are examples of typical Dance riffs. I don't care if it's
Jungle or Hardcore, Trance or House, Garage or R&B. This way of
approaching composition is older than your great grandmother!
Why? Because the human mind responds exceptionally well to
these kinds of structures. Repetition is IMPORTANT. Repetition
holds the key to ACCEPTANCE. Do we want the listener to accept
our ideas? Probably, yes! If the mind rejects an idea... if it
doesn't sit well, or doesn't flow well... that makes for very,
very difficult music to appreciate. If there's one most vital
part of this newsletter to learn, this concept is it. Crucial!

But repetition is often something we want to get away from,
right? Back to the convention!

Let's say you have the funkiest bassline ever & it lasts 4 bars
in an ABAC formation. Think carefully, now. A is clearly the
most prominent bar in the bassline. What if you were to make a
variation ABAD formation. Now you can look outside the 4-bar
bassline, & call bars ABAC, "a", & bars ABAD, "b". Now you have
more options. Imagine using "aaba", "aaab", or "abaa" forms to
vary the bass up a bit. That's fun, but you could still go many
steps further! How about, for example:

form "a" = ABAC riff
form "b" = ABAD riff
form "c" = ACAD riff
form "d" = ACAE riff

Now you could vary these up in a variety of ways! We've already
looked at "aaba", "aaab", & "abaa". But with the extra "c" & "d"
riff variations, we could try:

"abac"

"aabc"

"acba"

"abad"

...Then those form variations could be labelled, & sorted into
different patterns. You GET THE IDEA! So what? So, you could
potentially spark a WHOLE TRACK off an idea that started life as
1 bar. Wouldn't that make life easier? Now, before you get
started on your feedback email, try it. First listen to how the
music you like listening to is formed with repeated & varied
ideas. Then try it for yourself. You may well even found that
you have been using these formations without even consciously
realising it. With a conscious understanding, trust me, you can
seriously tighten up your work flow & success rate with writing.
Scepticism is great, but please try before you knock.

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:20 pm

and i thought i was pretty free and helpful
will elucidate more in future

LuKo · Post by **LuKo** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:22 pm

LOL - you must have posted that 1 second after i posted that, hehe

well done thats one helluva post!

I retract all i said ..

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:23 pm

thanx go out to owen hattrixx

LuKo · Post by **LuKo** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:26 pm

ok cool was just about to ask where that may have come from..
i suppose he has a site.. i will go google

cheers!

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:29 pm

whats your email?

LuKo · Post by **LuKo** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:45 pm

luko79@gmail

aerobiotic · Post by **aerobiotic** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:18 pm

Direktor wrote:http://melbournebeats.com/forum/viewtop ... 32&start=0

Check that out Grey Son, it's a whole thread dedicated to those that either:
a) Love Reason
b) Hate Reason.

I've used it a fair bit mate, feel free to ask me questions - I'll do my best to answer.

hahaha just dont ask him how to use the NNXT... Spies you crack me up! He's the only one I know that used the program for so long and I think late last year he figured out that the NNXT has all those great parameters underneath the hood!

aerobiotic · Post by **aerobiotic** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:22 pm

ps. http://www.reasonstation.net has a awsome forum, I use it all the time!

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:18 am

aerobiotic wrote:
Direktor wrote:http://melbournebeats.com/forum/viewtop ... 32&start=0

Check that out Grey Son, it's a whole thread dedicated to those that either:
a) Love Reason
b) Hate Reason.

I've used it a fair bit mate, feel free to ask me questions - I'll do my best to answer.

hahaha just dont ask him how to use the NNXT... Spies you crack me up! He's the only one I know that used the program for so long and I think late last year he figured out that the NNXT has all those great parameters underneath the hood!

Damn NNXT! It's so true!

Grey Son · Post by **Grey Son** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:47 am

Direktor wrote:
aerobiotic wrote:
Direktor wrote:http://melbournebeats.com/forum/viewtop ... 32&start=0

Check that out Grey Son, it's a whole thread dedicated to those that either:
a) Love Reason
b) Hate Reason.

I've used it a fair bit mate, feel free to ask me questions - I'll do my best to answer.

hahaha just dont ask him how to use the NNXT... Spies you crack me up! He's the only one I know that used the program for so long and I think late last year he figured out that the NNXT has all those great parameters underneath the hood!
Damn NNXT! It's so true!

Ha ha its funny because thats all i use, that and Dr Rex. I found with the layering on the sampler i can make any amount of sounds and use it as a synth. Come up with basslines, analog sounding shit and pads, i like it. I havnt touched the synths yet, wont need !!!

flippo · Post by **flippo** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:57 am

I find the samplers too limiting now. Only thing I use are the synths, mainly because I've aves heaps of patches for them.

Grey Son · Post by **Grey Son** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:33 pm

Fuck i cant get Recycle, both times it ended up being a demo...
Thats the only way to make rex files yeah, why couldnt Reason just have a chopper already man!!??

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:37 pm

You using Limewire?

I need it too. Just downloaded one - will check the version.

Grey Son · Post by **Grey Son** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:40 pm

Direktor wrote:You using Limewire?

I need it too. Just downloaded one - will check the version.

Got Version 2, twice and both were demo's mate!!

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:44 pm

Yeah the one I've got doesn't work.

Grey Son · Post by **Grey Son** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:45 pm

I guess thats why Cubase is better, ALL IN ONE!!

LuKo · Post by **LuKo** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:47 pm

i can yousendit tommozz or later tonight

sh*t someone here sent it to me, i thought it was you greyson! lol

Grey Son · Post by **Grey Son** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:50 pm

LuKo wrote:i can yousendit tommozz or later tonight

sh*t someone here sent it to me, i thought it was you greyson! lol

Nah just the manual ha ha!!

LuKo · Post by **LuKo** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:03 pm

oh yeah thats right!! hehe

i do have the program there if you'd like it, I'm sure it'll go well with your manual -

Grey Son · Post by **Grey Son** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:06 pm

LuKo wrote:oh yeah thats right!! hehe

i do have the program there if you'd like it, I'm sure it'll go well with your manual -

Thanks Luko, yeah i here the manual and the program work well together!!
Let us know!!!
Cheers..........

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:26 pm

LuKo, if you've still got my email - I'd love a copy too!

Only a small size isn't it? Like 2MB or something?

unsoundbwoy · Post by **unsoundbwoy** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:34 pm

ssshhhhhhh!