New mixer for me!!

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:39 am

I couldn't find the other threads addressing this issue....

anyways, I'm tossing up between a few different models..

I love the feel of this mixer, love the effects, but it seamed a little noisey. I noticed a fair bit of hiss through the headphones when there was no music playing. Granted it may have been the input devices/cabling.

I like the compact size and simple controls of this mixer, it seams REALLY sturdy too. It's only got 2 phono inputs (out of 4 channels) which I find annoying as I quite often use three decks. The effects suck (not that I was planning on using them much anyway). The price is pretty damn good too (around $750).

A bit of a "plasticy" feel for my liking, not much weight behind it. Good simple controls, 5 channels, which is good. The effects are a little too extreme for my liking (but I'm not too fussed about effects). Not sure of the sound quality as yet.

the Allen & Heath, Ecler or Pioneer mixers are simply waaaay out of my price range

Thoughts?.....????

Edit... adding the X9 so I can see them all...

LuKo · Post by **LuKo** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:43 am

keep saving

...i reallly love the feel of the ecler mixers

and those new allen and heath mixers with the ableton sh*t attached either side are just carazy , but again out of everybody's price range!

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:44 am

I've only used the 5000FX - so cannot comment on the others. Good sound quality though mate - I can hook up a demo for you if you like, but you'll have to get your ass to Preston.

saintberry · Post by **saintberry** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:02 am

i know the denon x1500 had lag on the x-fader. which would render it useless if your a skratch monkey.

there are reports that this MAY have been fixed with a firmware updated. im yet to substantiate this for my self. so i wouldnt recommend it just yet. but if that were fixed its the best of the 3 you listed.

whatever you do, head up to storedj on vic st and test them all out. they have a pretty decent range and are nice enough to let you fuck around on their demo stock. there is nothing like hands on experience with this shizz nizzle. what some love, others hate.

i still dont understand mixers with more than 2 pgms lol. but id always buy quality over features for stuff like this. *cough* rane. even allen and heath is manufactured in china these days....

id also be wary of anything with built in efx. 1 it means to be decent the mixer has to be digital and 2 in the current climate of time coded vinyl, all that DSP stuff is being fed to PCs which open up endless possibilities of efx/samplers etc with VSTs.

might be better off with a ttm57 or a 56 and serato... or wait for m-audio torke â€“ then you will be future proof with DSP.

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:10 am

MAUDIO MAUDIO MAUDIO

Spent a good 3 days demo'ing the beta version of Torque on the Gold Coast a few weeks back - AMAZING!

saintberry · Post by **saintberry** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:27 am

yeah it looks rad, i cant wait to get my hands on it. if its stable it will kick ass.

thats whats holding stuff like dj decks, ms pinky and mix vibes back. compared to serato you just woudnt trust them in front of a big crowd.

stability stability stability (developers!)

haha - is that where you got that from? Steve Balmerâ€¦what a dick.

Snowie · Post by **Snowie** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:27 am

Dan, the Denon would be the best out of what you listed, but i know that Vinyl Warning has 1 tascam X9 left, and if you were to go in and offer cash at let say $800 or abit less, i would think they would take the deal so they could clear stock.

I would take the Tascam over the denon due to it being digital, and that's the reason you hear the hiss with nothing playing(digital vs analog). Tascam has a very solid name when it comes to it's audio equipment. And i've heard that some of the best dj's in the world take them to all their gigs( Dave Clarke, Me)hehehehe...

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:33 am

Get the Tascam X9 - they are fucking sick! Parametric EQ's to die for!

If the Denon is hissing I wouldn't touch it, sounds like you'll end up with a shitty signal-noise ratio IMO. At the end of the day, if you're forking out the cash - you want your mixes to sound as good possible right?
Then again, maybe the unit you inspected was faulty....

But if you can pick up an X9 for sub $1000 - you'd be doing very well for yourself. They are a discontinued item now.

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:52 pm

hmmm, to be honest I'm not keen on the parametric EQs... I know they are rock solid and all but I don't really need/use it and I find it makes the feel of the EQ knobs a bit annoying.

The Tascam is surely a nice machine,

dunno about the lag on the x-fader with the dennon but I found there was lag on the line switch AND EQs on the vestax, which is weird to say the least.

anyone know why the Tascam is discontinued?

Snowie · Post by **Snowie** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:55 pm

They are making a new model with midi. My guess is when released it will be up there with Pioneer 800 in price $2500+.

saintberry · Post by **saintberry** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:07 pm

i used to have a tascam XS8. i bought that JUST after it was discontinued and it was rock solid. so i wouldnt let that put you off.

no idea re the x9, but the xs8 was just a rebadged ecler hak 320 (tascam is eclers us distributor) with better faders. it looked fucking shit compared to the 320, so they sold really poorly. tascam discontinued it and for a few months there you could get a $650US RRP mixer for $150bonesâ€¦ new. it was gold.

i snapped one up, modded it with full penny and giles faders and boom. Kick ass mixer for 300bucks.

ive still go it and it holds it own against a ttm56 which i replaced it with.

long story sort - decent discontinued products = bargain.

re lag on the vestax. its prolly just got shoddy dsp built in. the digital dj mixers these days are just glorified hardware controllers. analogue all the way baby!

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:04 pm

deviant wrote:hmmm, to be honest I'm not keen on the parametric EQs... I know they are rock solid and all but I don't really need/use it and I find it makes the feel of the EQ knobs a bit annoying.

Fair enough mate... but speaking to dudes like Cliffery who use the X9, they definately use them to get their levels matched perfectly. Much more precise and control - but I can understand your point on the feel of the rotaries.

Snowie: I hadn't heard about a new DJ mixer coming out from Tascam - where did you hear this?

Snowie · Post by **Snowie** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:10 pm

Kerien, but i've been hunting on that rumour today and yeah nothing offical anyway.

BOOBIES

Sorry can't help myself

Boobies

Snowie · Post by **Snowie** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:18 pm

it's a personal thing but the 4 band eq's suck llama balls imo, tho sound wise they are one of the best, but overall ummm you could do so much better for your money....

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:18 pm

Citizen Smif wrote:allen n heath
seriously

cant test these mixers

How do you know they're good then?

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:21 pm

Mos Def my man.... you?

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:12 pm

fuck.... they (storedj) just sold their last x9

so that leaves the denon and the numark....

the vestax is already out of the picture.

Snowie · Post by **Snowie** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:41 pm

nic · Post by **nic** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:08 pm

denon. feel it nice. feel the liable rubber knobs.

numark teh plastic spastic.

Snowie · Post by **Snowie** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:19 pm

Dan, i have a hunt for ya, there may be a few X9's still floating around, but now that their discontinued it might get abit hard. Give me a day or so and i'll give ya list of places to try.

saintberry · Post by **saintberry** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:42 pm

deviant - do you intend to skratch much on this mixer mate?

if not, just go for the denon. its a great mixer apart form that tiny fault that you will only ever notice if you try to preform fast fader based skratches like twiddles, 2click flares, crabs ad the like.

the faders feel like butter, penny and giles are some of the best VCA plastic based faders out there. there is just a slight lag on the fader.

i dont know if i trust the reports on the fuzzing sound issue. that sounds more like a turntable ground to me. denon usually builds products with high quality control and good components. their hifi amps are some of the best stuff to come out of japan.

def worth a sesh on it....

im not sure if you are aware but there is a review from 2004 of it on skratchworx. http://www.skratchworx.com/reviews/dn-x1500.php

just had a peep and check this

UPDATE FROM GIZMO: With the ability to update the firmware, the fader issues reported by Deft have been fixed. Having played with the X1500 a couple of time at length, I have no issues with decay like the feelings I had previously. The P&G is now very responsive and catches every click. I've left the review untouched for historical reasons. The rating has been amended from 6/10 to 8/10 with Deft's agreement.

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:03 pm

purchased

not a big scratcher, I do a little, but not worth basing my mixer choice on.

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the hiss factor? I found that the hiss I initially reported is only in the headphone send. It's pretty weird though it kind of "clicks" on when the fader is about 15% up, same with the master

There is no hiss of hum in the main output, in fact it has a fucking kickass sound.

SoulWhiteMan · Post by **SoulWhiteMan** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:20 pm

you got the numark, yeah

i have one, rate it highly,

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:21 pm

Yeah what did u get mate?

almax · Post by **almax** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:33 am

I HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend the Pioneer DJM 800 mixer, check it out
http://www.djmag.com/tech/Pioneer_DJM-800.pdf

almax · Post by **almax** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:35 am

oh whoops, you already purchased...meh, looks like a slick mixer anywho

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:35 am

almax wrote:I HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend the Pioneer DJM 800 mixer, check it out
http://www.djmag.com/tech/Pioneer_DJM-800.pdf

looks better than bloody old DJM 600

midi is a good feature - and it sounds like effects are better than before (they really were awful to work with before)

but still not full cut eq! what gives?

and the insistance on lots of red lights, makes it seem like a DJ mixer for kiddies

enough to turn me off

almax · Post by **almax** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:04 am

you can use the filter effect for that

nic · Post by **nic** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:54 am

he joined the central denon club bangerz group
script

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:20 pm

yeah, I got the DN-X1500

The 800 is certainly a great miser, but it's a little out of my price range.

and Foundation Stepper: I agree with you on the 600 effects, but the more you use it the easier it becomes. I have found some quite musical and transparent ways to use this mixer and it's effects. Some of these new mixers (including the one I got) seam to have the effects work in time and on point with very little effort.

marcus · Post by **marcus** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:01 am

FoundationStepper wrote:
almax wrote:I HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend the Pioneer DJM 800 mixer, check it out
http://www.djmag.com/tech/Pioneer_DJM-800.pdf
looks better than bloody old DJM 600

midi is a good feature - and it sounds like effects are better than before (they really were awful to work with before)

but still not full cut eq! what gives?

and the insistance on lots of red lights, makes it seem like a DJ mixer for kiddies

enough to turn me off

I like it how he bags the shit out of DJ's who don't even understand what the lights are there for.

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:34 am

I like it too...

I mean that it makes less a calibrated instrument which responds as accurately as any other good mixer should, and more like a fun box or squeegy hammer.

and if you are a dj you should know what distortion and clipping is and that you should avoid it rather than running into the red cos it gives you a hard on. for fucks sake, its pretty basic.

Snowie · Post by **Snowie** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:04 am

Foundation Stepper, most dj's wouldn't have a clue about distortion or clipping, the assumption that going over 0db and way into the red is just going to make it louder is a common misbelief. Basically anything over 0db is distortion. What dj's don't realise is by keeping the sound on the mixer at 0db or just under, the main amp could be turn up(within limits) which would mean clearer sound at a increased volume.

deviant · Post by **deviant** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:09 am

there are way too many red lights on the DJM 600

I mean half the the whole channel meter is red, what would be the point of that many red lights, surely if it was going to sound terrible or distort then you'd only need a few at the top to warn you. I think it's designed badly for this reason. My new mixer is half green, then the majority of the other half is orange and then just one or two reds at the top. It makes a hell of a lot more sense to me.

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:21 am

Snowie wrote:most djs dont know shit

yep

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:24 am

deviant wrote:there are way too many red lights on the DJM 600

I mean half the the whole channel meter is red, what would be the point of that many red lights, surely if it was going to sound terrible or distort then you'd only need a few at the top to warn you. I think it's designed badly for this reason. My new mixer is half green, then the majority of the other half is orange and then just one or two reds at the top. It makes a hell of a lot more sense to me.

the stupid thing is that you have no idea where 0dB actually is....

its incredibly innaccurate

plus they are responsible for so many system blowups... that grub screw on the back being a likely party

thats right - green is good
orange to tell you you are approaching unity
red is unity and beyond - component fuzz, minor distortion, and CLIP - how quickly it goes from fuzz to square depends on the quality of components etc...

fikuss · Post by **fikuss** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:41 am

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:50 am

YES!!!

most seriously - top pic for me.

I sold one to first floor and they got upset cos the DJ's didn't know how to use it...

fikuss · Post by **fikuss** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:51 am

i love my rane

Fents · Post by **Fents** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:09 pm

fikuss wrote:i love my rane

i love ur rane too

Post by **lynt** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:49 pm

Citizen Smif wrote:

Is that the new Vestax?

saintberry · Post by **saintberry** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:25 pm

speaking of Rane and 0db...

Meteres... Ten-segment resolution is provided with a one second, peak hold. Use the meter to set the GAIN controls. With the program fader set to maximum, the input GAIN should be set to indicate and average level of about +4 dB.

Thats taken directly from the Rane TTM56 manual. WTF? I did a bit of testing and regardless of how much you clip our input source on this thing, the output will NEVER go above 0dB. It must have some form of hardware compression built into the circuit(?). Need an electronics nerd to look at the schematics and confirm.

When I read that over a year ago it tossed everything I learnt through experience with POS mixers like the DJM 600 down the toilet.

Most vestax mixers are the same as mentioned above. The point? Not all mixers meters react as you imagine. Read the manual...

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:50 pm

yeah but pro electornics often output +4, with input devices set to take this level - its evens out. its like the professional version of unity for rock pigs who want it go to 11.

same goes for domestic gear, default "unity" is actually -10dB

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:53 pm

apparently DJM 600 uses linear pots BTW - thats why they seem wierd on the gain control - you need a log pot if you want linear behaviour

djboganofbeatz · Post by **djboganofbeatz** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:20 pm

apparently the denon's lag has bin reduced with the update

almax · Post by **almax** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:48 pm

I agree the pioneer 600 is basically a toy, however, the 800 is a vast improvement, it now only has 2 red lights at the top amongst other modifications, still has a while to go in terms of sound to match a rane or an allen and heath sure, but to buy one for home seems to make sense to me. The 800 will become a standard mixer in the majority of clubs and to be familiar with what you can do with it is only going to be a bonus. Check the specs

saintberry · Post by **saintberry** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:54 pm

FoundationStepper wrote:yeah but pro electornics often output +4, with input devices set to take this level - its evens out. its like the professional version of unity for rock pigs who want it go to 11.

same goes for domestic gear, default "unity" is actually -10dB

but if you have your meters showing +5dB (on the ttm56) and you are recording the output into something where you can see the amplitude of the peaks... the amplitude will stay the same until your gain is turned down so the meters on the ttm56 are showing less than 0dB output.

something else is going on. its not a smooth output curve....

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:00 pm

right - could be the compression section as used in the empath maybe?

Liam_B · Post by **Liam_B** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:31 pm

I've got a djm600 myself, nothing wrong with it. Had it for a few years now. Got it quite cheap at the time.

They are very popular around bars and clubs all over the world. Its got its good point and bad points. Saying its a kiddies mixer is a bit on the heavy side! Its got a ton of extras that nothing much else had when they came out new in there price range. Mention an allen & heath to a scratch DJ and they will say they are shit because you can't alter the cross fader.

Pushing it into the reds completely has no noticeable lose in sound quality if you ask me. Its all about keeping the gains at a sensible level on any mixer. Dj's will max anything out louder when they get half a chance at a party, no matter how loud it is

I've never seen one completely stop working, even after many nights of pints being spilt on one where I used to play at in a club in London/brixton! Buttons were a bit sticky though

The only thing I dont like is the click point in the knobs. horrible but sensible I guess.

Having said that though, I would'nt mind an allen & heath one day to replace it, they were worth a lot more when I was looking at my 600 back then.

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:24 pm

Liam_B wrote:Saying its a kiddies mixer is a bit on the heavy side!

Why?

It qualifies on many levels

- lots of lights
- resonably sturdy
- moisture resistant
- crude response
- easy for little minds to understand
- big buttons and knobs
- doesn't allow for creative application beyond the scope of the toy
- an all in one thats lots of fun
- popular and all the kids want one, even though they don't know why (just cos the other kids have got one really)
- familiar and safe, not confronting or scary
- lots of lights again
- hard to muck up