DAVID HICKS PLEADS GUILTY

SoulWhiteMan · Post by **SoulWhiteMan** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:53 pm

His trial started, two of his lawyers were dismissed, I guess he finally "cracked"?

AUSTRALIAN man David Hicks has pleaded guilty to terrorism at a military tribunal at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.

Hicks, 31, entered a guilty plea to a charge of providing material support to terrorism.

Hicks's military attorney Major Michael Mori entered the plea on behalf of his client, who stood alongside with a sombre expression.

Hicks answered "yes, sir," when the judge, Marine Colonel Ralph Kohlmann, asked if that was in fact his plea.

The judge ordered the prosecutors and defence lawyers to draw up a plea agreement by 6am AEST tomorrow, which is expected to spell out his sentence.

The guilty plea came about an hour after Col Kohlmann, ordered prosecutors, Hicks and his legal team to return to court after the day's 3-Â½-hour hearing had already wrapped up.

Hicks had chosen to defer entering a plea at the earlier hearing and the military commission had been adjourned before being hurriedly reconvened.

There had been growing speculation before the commission hearing that Hicks may agree to a deal to plead guilty to a charge of providing material support to terrorism.

The maximum penalty for the offence is life but it is assumed Hicks will now receive a lighter sentence, possibly taking into account the five years he has already spent in custody.

An exchange of prisoner agreement between Australia and the US meant Hicks would be allowed to serve any sentence in Australia, Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said today.

The former Adelaide man is the first war on terror detainee at the US-run prison to be tried under a new law that revived the tribunals after the US Supreme Court threw out the previous system created by an order from President George W. Bush.

A former horse trainer in the Australian outback and kangaroo skinner, Hicks allegedly underwent training at an al-Qaeda camp in Kandahar, southern Afghanistan and volunteered to fight alongside Taliban forces during the US-led invasion.

The charge sheet did not allege Hicks fired on US troops or attacked a US target, but said he conducted surveillance on the abandoned US embassy in Kabul and met Osama bin Laden as well as accused "shoe bomber" Richard Reid.

Previous charges of attempted murder, conspiracy and aiding the enemy were dropped, with defence lawyers saying the move showed US authorities had a weak case.

with AAP, AFP, Reuters

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:02 pm

Plea bargain I'd say.

Fucking bullshit trial IMO.

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:06 pm

i cant help it, i am sick of hearing about him.

maybe im a biatch.

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:09 pm

ghetto kitty wrote:i cant help it, i am sick of hearing about him.

maybe im a biatch.

That's pretty rough Kitty.

I'm glad we hear about the injustices in the world - particularly those concerning our fellow countrymen.

I'd hate to be falsely imprisoned and then forgotten about.

Sure, he's a silly lad and was in the wrong place at the wrong time - but I'd reckon he's already paid the price with his bullshit 'pre-trial imprisonment'.

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:16 pm

yes, i know.

but the news only seems to consist of a few things lately

1) david hicks
2) bush/howard and thier fucked decisions
3) footballers being abusive and done for drugs

i dunno.

jaded about the media fo sho, thats all.

mixtress · Post by **mixtress** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:19 pm

You probably wouldn't be so jaded about Hicks if they'd had his damned trial immediately after he was detained, fucken. The thing's dragged on so much we all feel apathy instead of empathy. Our care factor has been stretched paper thin.

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:20 pm

It's always the case IMO Kitty...

Gotta sell those papers.

saintberry · Post by **saintberry** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:25 pm

No validity whatsoever. Poor man. Hope Rudd gets elected and dismisses any conviction when he finally makes it back to Australia.

Would never happen but it would be nice.

almax · Post by **almax** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:26 pm

i just find it ridiculous that he is being charged with an offence that didnt exist when he was arrested

saintberry · Post by **saintberry** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:29 pm

almax wrote:i just find it ridiculous that he is being charged with an offence that didnt exist when he was arrested

word... retrospective law what a wank. goes against pretty much everything i believe in.

saintberry · Post by **saintberry** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:30 pm

will be some good interviews on lateline tonight... would like to hear what Mori has to say on the matter.

fuck

i cant repress it anymore, im in love with Tony Jones!

bassfreak · Post by **bassfreak** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:31 pm

terrorists deserve to rot behind bars no matter what country they come from!

saintberry · Post by **saintberry** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:35 pm

bassfreak wrote:terrorists deserve to rot behind bars no matter what country they come from!

I agree, hence why he should have been given a fair trial in a just court so that it could be unbiasedly judged if he was in fact a terrorist.

I also think that people like Rumsfeld should be tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity and rot behind the same bars as "terrorists". He still deserves a fair trial and the presumption of innocence though!

mr lob · Post by **mr lob** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:41 pm

bassfreak wrote:terrorists deserve to rot behind bars no matter what country they come from!

yes if they are found guilty I would agree.

but we may all ask who are the real terrorists, when our country's government lied to the public to get us involved and then fights terror with terror.

I mean the world is safer now right since the invasion of Iraq and Afganistan isn't it

Additionallly, if our countries did not do deals with despots, dictators and oil rich revolutionairies, besides the fact that we prop up their regimes with our support of them and sale of weapons to them, we might have that safer world.

Screw the weapons makers, lying governments and apathy that allows this to happen...

almax · Post by **almax** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:42 pm

bassfreak wrote:terrorists deserve to rot behind bars no matter what country they come from!

did he actually commit an act of terror though or was he just a trigger happy bogan who wanted to go shoot and blow shit up at a camp?

dust · Post by **dust** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:44 pm

almax wrote:did he actually commit an act of terror though or was he just a trigger happy bogan who wanted to go shoot and blow shit up at a camp?

Ha ha. Touche. You should be his lawyer.

aspekt · Post by **aspekt** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:17 pm

A friend of mine was visiting from the states a couple of weeks ago and we went past the big "Bring Hicks home" banner on St Paul's. My mate flat out said that Hicks was guilty because they wouldn't have arrested him/imprisoned him for so long if he wasn't. That's blind faith in your country, if ever I saw it.

quick · Post by **quick** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:05 pm

aspekt wrote:A friend of mine was visiting from the states a couple of weeks ago and we went past the big "Bring Hicks home" banner on St Paul's. My mate flat out said that Hicks was guilty because they wouldn't have arrested him/imprisoned him for so long if he wasn't. That's blind faith in your country, if ever I saw it.

is he still your friend?

Kitty, this is exactly what I was saying in the Ben Cousins thread... due to media coverage being... well, as it is, we start to take our frustration out on the victim, or at least loose sight of the real picture. it sux...

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:56 pm

saintberry wrote:i cant repress it anymore, im in love with Tony Jones!

me too...

almax · Post by **almax** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:58 pm

Peter Harvey..........
................................

............................
..........

........................
Canberra

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:23 am

mr lob wrote:
bassfreak wrote:terrorists deserve to rot behind bars no matter what country they come from!
yes if they are found guilty I would agree.

but we may all ask who are the real terrorists, when our country's government lied to the public to get us involved and then fights terror with terror.

I mean the world is safer now right since the invasion of Iraq and Afganistan isn't it

Additionallly, if our countries did not do deals with despots, dictators and oil rich revolutionairies, besides the fact that we prop up their regimes with our support of them and sale of weapons to them, we might have that safer world.

Screw the weapons makers, lying governments and apathy that allows this to happen...

Re: Terrorist belong behind bars - put fucking George Bush and the rest of his cronies behind bars. Hicks has served his time.

DBoy · Post by **DBoy** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:31 am

would you prefer
a)to be in solitary in Cuba
b)be an convicted terrorist in a open jail in Oz or US.

? Gotta suck eh ?

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:43 am

Honestly, I dont understand this

wasn't he fighting for an "army" associated with the government of the time in afghanistan, making this a military conflict, not one of terrorism?

i mean afghanistan was invaded by the US, right? so fighting the invaders is kind of par for course?

or am i missing the point?

or is this not the point - its just that he fraternised with "known terrorists"?

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:46 am

A bit of column A and a bit of column B from what I can gather FoundationStepper.

End of the day, it's Big Brother America being paranoid/greedy as per normal.

mixtress · Post by **mixtress** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:49 am

for sure Direktor. The greedier you are, the more paranoid you get.

mecka · Post by **mecka** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:49 am

FoundationStepper wrote: or is this not the point - its just that he fraternised with "known terrorists"?

no the point is the length of time he's been held in sub-human conditions blahblahblah.

i dont even care really. call me apathetic but i've got other shit to worry about/bigger, longer running problems in the world.

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:51 am

Never really thought of it like that Mixie, makes perfect sense. Particularly when most of your gains are off the bats of down-trodden nations, states and peoples.

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:51 am

mecka wrote:
FoundationStepper wrote: or is this not the point - its just that he fraternised with "known terrorists"?
no the point is the length of time he's been held in sub-human conditions blahblahblah.

i dont even care really. call me apathetic but i've got other shit to worry about/bigger, longer running problems in the world.

(the point of the charges)

ghetto kitty · Post by **ghetto kitty** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:43 pm

quick wrote:
aspekt wrote:A friend of mine was visiting from the states a couple of weeks ago and we went past the big "Bring Hicks home" banner on St Paul's. My mate flat out said that Hicks was guilty because they wouldn't have arrested him/imprisoned him for so long if he wasn't. That's blind faith in your country, if ever I saw it.
is he still your friend?

Kitty, this is exactly what I was saying in the Ben Cousins thread... due to media coverage being... well, as it is, we start to take our frustration out on the victim, or at least loose sight of the real picture. it sux...

i was born and bred in the US of A, but when i get asked about my fading accent i say
'im ex-american"

simply becasue of the atttitude i encounter with yanks like your friend, who just dont question or cant beleive that their govt is donig anything wrong.

last time i was there an older man (like 50's) said to me
"america is the BESt conutry in the world"
is said "oh, where else have you been?"
he said "nowhere, i dont gotta go anywhere, i know its the best!"

he was serious.

and re david hicks > i dont beleive a word of the media anymore. on either side. personal experience has proved it to be pretty much ALL spin and lies for a gain of someone else.

saintberry · Post by **saintberry** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:41 pm

mecka wrote:
FoundationStepper wrote: or is this not the point - its just that he fraternised with "known terrorists"?
no the point is the length of time he's been held in sub-human conditions blahblahblah.

i dont even care really. call me apathetic but i've got other shit to worry about/bigger, longer running problems in the world.

Would you feel the same if this was your brother or friend? No.

The point is... without the popper safeguards in place this could happen to anyone the Government of the time determines to be "against" them. Personally I feel thats pretty freaking important.

Post by **breaksRbest** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:46 pm

SoulWhiteMan wrote: Hicks allegedly underwent training at an al-Qaeda camp in Kandahar, southern Afghanistan and volunteered to fight alongside Taliban forces during the US-led invasion.

as far as I'm concerned, that's all I need to know.

Lock the fucker up.

Ya can't expect to be hangin' out/training with terrorists and not get royally fucked over for it.

Training? Training for what? They certainly weren't teaching him how to crochet.

No sympathy at all from me

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:53 pm

so is there no distinction between the Afghanistan military operations and operations involving "terrorist acts" outside of miliary conflict?

given that al queda was principally (initially) a military enclave set up to fight the russians (right?) with american backing (right?)...

its it not possible to fight for a islamist "cause" as defensive action within an invaded country without this action being construed to be terrorism?

almax · Post by **almax** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:57 pm

breaksRbest wrote:
SoulWhiteMan wrote: Hicks allegedly underwent training at an al-Qaeda camp in Kandahar, southern Afghanistan and volunteered to fight alongside Taliban forces during the US-led invasion.

as far as I'm concerned, that's all I need to know.

Lock the fucker up.

Ya can't expect to be hangin' out/training with terrorists and not get royally fucked over for it.

Training? Training for what? They certainly weren't teaching him how to crochet.

No sympathy at all from me

Ok so being a terrorist is fucked, i think we all agree on that, but what defines a terrorist? is it someone who plans, facilitates or commits and act of terror...yes

Is it someone who trains to be a soldier in a foreign country, well in that particular camp it is now, but at the time of David Hicks arrest, it was not.

Its kinda like getting arrested for buying a bong even though you have never smoked weed before, maybe you were going to, but then again, maybe you were gonna use it as a vase for a posie of flowers

likewise, Hicks may have just been training in the camp cause he liked shooting guns and throwing grenades in a boot camp, with no intentions of causing acts of terror

almax · Post by **almax** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:58 pm

FoundationStepper wrote:so is there no distinction between the Afghanistan military operations and operations involving "terrorist acts" outside of miliary conflict?

given that al queda was principally (initially) a military enclave set up to fight the russians (right?) with american backing (right?)...

its it not possible to fight for a islamist "cause" as defensive action within an invaded country without this action being construed to be terrorism?

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:00 pm

^^^ almax, thats how i see it...

like those vids that pop up every now and then of kids in palestine training to shoot guns etc.... and this being branded by murdoch press/TV as "the next generation of terrorists in the making"

almax · Post by **almax** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:02 pm

fuck man, i know when i was a kid i used to run around the bush playing army with fake guns and me and my buddys all camo'd up. Rambo stylee, that shit was fun, its not like im a terrorist now.....or am i

mrj · Post by **mrj** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:04 pm

breaksRbest wrote:
SoulWhiteMan wrote: Hicks allegedly underwent training at an al-Qaeda camp in Kandahar, southern Afghanistan and volunteered to fight alongside Taliban forces during the US-led invasion.

as far as I'm concerned, that's all I need to know.

Lock the fucker up.

Ya can't expect to be hangin' out/training with terrorists and not get royally fucked over for it.

Training? Training for what? They certainly weren't teaching him how to crochet.

No sympathy at all from me

I don't agree bRb, the point is this.

SoulWhiteMan wrote: Hicks allegedly underwent training at an al-Qaeda camp in Kandahar, southern Afghanistan and volunteered to fight alongside Taliban forces during the US-led invasion.

If its is proven that Hicks trained in a terrorist training camp or commited terrorist acts and so forth, then by all means he probably should be bought to justice.

The point is it hasn't been proven, and the manner in which this has been handled is such that there is no way it ever could be, gulity plea or no guilty plea.

Hicks has been subjected to very cruel punishment. His guilty plea is simply designed to end his suffering, ie get extradited back to Australia. I'm sure the advice he has had is that a life term in Australia is better than one more day in his current lodgings.

The whole thing is the grossest miscarrige of justice imaginable and touts the basic fundamental principles of human rights, equality, and justice.

LuKo · Post by **LuKo** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:14 pm

breaksRbest wrote:
SoulWhiteMan wrote: Hicks allegedly underwent training at an al-Qaeda camp in Kandahar, southern Afghanistan and volunteered to fight alongside Taliban forces during the US-led invasion.

as far as I'm concerned, that's all I need to know.

Lock the fucker up.

Ya can't expect to be hangin' out/training with terrorists and not get royally fucked over for it.

Training? Training for what? They certainly weren't teaching him how to crochet.

No sympathy at all from me

my sentiments too

people saying thers no proof, he was pictured holding a rocket launcher in afghanistan ffs - thats enuff proof for me

almax · Post by **almax** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:19 pm

LuKo wrote:
breaksRbest wrote:
SoulWhiteMan wrote: Hicks allegedly underwent training at an al-Qaeda camp in Kandahar, southern Afghanistan and volunteered to fight alongside Taliban forces during the US-led invasion.

as far as I'm concerned, that's all I need to know.

Lock the fucker up.

Ya can't expect to be hangin' out/training with terrorists and not get royally fucked over for it.

Training? Training for what? They certainly weren't teaching him how to crochet.

No sympathy at all from me
my sentiments too

people saying thers no proof, he was pictured holding a rocket launcher in afghanistan ffs - thats enuff proof for me

OMG dude, i can go to thailand and pay $50 to go to a shooting range where you can shoot rocket launchers, throw grenades shoot magnums, what ever, i could also have my photo taken doing this, is this proof that im a terrorist?

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:20 pm

proof of what?

fighting invading americans?

or covertly attacking civilians?

LuKo · Post by **LuKo** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:28 pm

almax wrote:
LuKo wrote:
breaksRbest wrote:
as far as I'm concerned, that's all I need to know.

Lock the fucker up.

Ya can't expect to be hangin' out/training with terrorists and not get royally fucked over for it.

Training? Training for what? They certainly weren't teaching him how to crochet.

No sympathy at all from me
my sentiments too

people saying thers no proof, he was pictured holding a rocket launcher in afghanistan ffs - thats enuff proof for me
OMG dude, i can go to thailand and pay $50 to go to a shooting range where you can shoot rocket launchers, throw grenades shoot magnums, what ever, i could also have my photo taken doing this, is this proof that im a terrorist?

haha - really, didnt know that..about thailand

when put like that , no probably not 'proove' your a terrorist, but will proove your not the sharpest tool in the shed

but hey we arent talking thailand are we we are talking an area that terrorism and civilian attacks and war are rife, that being that case if you were to pick up a rocketlauncher in that country, in that area - regardless of the reason - your a farking idiot

I dont know you could argue there are many ways he could have found himself in that pic holding that weapon, but the circumstances and timing of it point more to he was training with al-queda not just taking an unfortunate holdiay snap

sneaky hands · Post by **sneaky hands** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:41 pm

LuKo wrote:people saying thers no proof, he was pictured holding a rocket launcher in afghanistan ffs - thats enuff proof for me

that photo is actually from the Balkans, where he was fighting against milosovic-led forces.

strange that he wasnt considered a terrorist then - but thats because he was fighting on the "right" side.

let's not forget that the taliban was actually the government of afghanistan at the time, regardless of how bad of a job they were doing.

also, lets not forget the fine examples of US government sponsored terrorism we already have.. iran contra.. oh nvm.

almax · Post by **almax** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:41 pm

i believe that pic was actually taken in 1996 if i recall, it was the most current pic they had, one he sent to his parents in a letter, he didn't even have a beard then

almax · Post by **almax** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:42 pm

sneaky hands wrote:
LuKo wrote:people saying thers no proof, he was pictured holding a rocket launcher in afghanistan ffs - thats enuff proof for me
that photo is actually from the Balkans, where he was fighting against milosovic-led forces.

strange that he wasnt considered a terrorist then - but thats because he was fighting on the "right" side.

there ya go, i knew it was old

mixtress · Post by **mixtress** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:47 pm

It doesn't matter if he was photographed laughing as the twin towers fell down, doesn't matter if he was snapped shaking hands with Osama, it doesn't matter if he was pictured holding a freaking rocket launcher.

JUSTICE FOR ALL.

Smoking gun or not, he deserved to go to trial WAY before 5 years clicked over. Anyone does. Jesus, even Sadam was treated better by the American's ffs

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:56 pm

sneaky hands wrote: let's not forget that the taliban was actually the government of afghanistan at the time, regardless of how bad of a job they were doing.

:script: like im saying...

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:10 pm

Anyone remember this one:

"Innocent till proven guilty"?

FoundationStepper · Post by **FoundationStepper** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:16 pm

Direktor wrote:Anyone remember this one:

"Innocent till proven guilty"?

not in indonesia

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:19 pm

And not in America by the sounds of it, which according to America means not anywhere in the world...

Direkt · Post by **Direkt** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:29 pm

I'm with you Steve

Melbourne Beats

DAVID HICKS PLEADS GUILTY

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